Report child abuse?

[webber1998]

Wow.....

Were you EVER sorry afterwards, about getting involved? This must have taken sooo much of your time and energy. This boy has been VERY lucky to have you in his life, you know that?

Well, I don't even know if I'm a Saint like that! Last thing I wish for is for those children to lose their mum and/or dad. I don't even want to think about becoming responsible for them at this point, like you did. I just wish the parents would wake up and smell the coffee, by lack of a better expression in my vocabulaire...

Hence my comment about treading lightly. Once I got involved, so did the rest of my family. It WAS a hornets nest there for a while. But after spending so much time with the family, he just eventually became "part of us." And to be honest, I don't think I was ever sorry. We believed at the time, and I still do, that we rescued him.

I only wished at the time that the local authorities could have done SOMETHING. It appears from what I have read that YOU do have some help available.


And very grateful to the wonderful lady as SS who helped us, when she didn't have to.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I have similar-ish situation in my life right now. My best, oldest friend has 3 boys aged 6, 4 and 2 years old. By all accounts they are a real handfull and the eldest (R) particularly so. R has hyperactivity brought on by food additives and other triggers. He seldom sleeps longer than 4 or 5 hours a night and can be nasty and destructive when upset or very bored. Because he's the eldest, R has begun to bully his younger brothers and is adjusting poorly to school. He has no attention span and is already noticably behind with basic reading and maths.

This has lead to a violent dynamic between the 3 brothers. The middle child (J) copes with R's bullying by hitting back and both of them torment the youngest (H) if left to their own devices. My friend (L) is a devoted Mum but very much overwhelmed by her 3 boys. Although they fight amongst themselves they also have a strong pack dynamic and already know when they have L outnumbered. She gets very tired with the eldest sleeping so little and often simply doesn't have the energy to settle all their little disputes and discipline them properly. Her partner (C) works long hours and will dispense authority (personally I think he spanks the kids much too hard, especially the eldest who can be quite suicidally rude to him). He'll square up to the boys and scare them and so they learn to intimidate and lash out at each other. C doesn't play with or spend time with them though unless they're play-fighting. They're completely bipolar as parents. L doesn't discipline them enough during the day and they don't respect her at all. C does little else and they're terrified of him.

I've been friends with L since we were both 10 and we talk a lot about the boys, especially R. They live in a remote village and I have no car so when I visit I'll stay a night or 2, usually a weekend and see a lot of their family life. It's very difficult to criticise the parenting of a dear friend and we had some diplomatic discussions but L shut down after a while and didn't want to. Her relationship with C was also suffering because they both thought the other too hard/soft as parents and despaired at their incinsistency of approach. The kids meanwhile, got more and more badly behaved until L dreaded even going to the store with them.

I don't have any children so although we talked a lot, I was never really in a position to dispense advice and tried not to, just to be there for her. Things came to a head though when C held R's arm and spanked his bare behind so violently that the boy's shoulder dislocated. He was literally in a terrified, apopleptic, hyperventilating heap on the ground and I witnessed this. L and I had to take him to the hospital and she was in tears. She lied about how R had been injured and the poor boy sat and kept silent but he just looked so utterly, utterly betrayed. It was then that I decided I couldn't ignore the way things were deteriorating. The next day I actually reported my best friend to social services (I'm in the UK btw). I did this anonymously and I hated myself for weeks.

The result of all this though is that they were offered support. R now goes to a clinic for hyperactive children who have taught both him and his parents coping strategies. At their suggestion R joined a local kids football team (soccer) to channel some of his energy. He has a moderated diet that really helps. C and L were offered and accepted counselling from a family worker who helps them with issues concerning both parenting and their own relationship. The school R attends have also been kept better informed and involved about his special needs and he has settled there better. I would not wish to take credit for what I did but to have confronted L and C would have solved nothing and had they know it was me who reported them I would probably have lost their friendship and I wanted to be able to continue to be there for them. I am virtually their only babysitter if they want to go and do other things as nobody in either of their family would watch such badly behaved kids.

So all this has turned out positively. This is maybe a rare thing but I wanted to share it. I hope that whatever you decide to do, you believe it to be the right thing

 

[Eilan]

The next day I actually reported my best friend to social services (I'm in the UK btw). I did this anonymously and I hated myself for weeks.

Kudos to you. I can't imagine how difficult that must have been.

 

[Black Tulip]

That was very brave, Velvet.
And I believe you that is was very hard to do.

I'm glad you shared, so other people will understand you can do something.
It doesn't always end with the kids being taken away.
That really is usually the final option.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Blushes
Thankyou for all the praise.

I really don't know what I would have done if things had turned out badly. I was terrified that they might take R away or even all 3 or L & C might split or something equally awful. I'm SO relieved that things are ok.

It was a little tense when they were first contacted and tried to work out who might have reported them. L argued with her Dad who had often criticised her for having such rowdy kids. I was on tenterhooks for the longest time.

 

[M's girl]

Velvet

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Velvet

Thanks M. Its actually been a relief to finally admit to somebody that I did this. It's been therapeutic for me too

 

[M's girl]

Thanks M. Its actually been a relief to finally admit to somebody that I did this. It's been therapeutic for me too

I know. Writing things down helps. But admitting...? You did a good thing. There is no such thing really as admitting to a good thing... is there?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I know. Writing things down helps. But admitting...? You did a good thing. There is no such thing really as admitting to a good thing... is there?

Well, it's only a good thing because it worked. Could have backfired spectacularly.

 

[mickyp123]

Velvet is R the same towards you as he to his mother in the way he behaves, or do you have, or seem to have more control

 

[M's girl]

Well, it's only a good thing because it worked. Could have backfired spectacularly.

I know. That's what I'm afraid of a bit. I actually called this afternoon and did not make an official complaint, just asked for information. I will call back in about three weeks. We decided that the best way was to try and talk to them first. I do not want to make an anonymous complaint because they will figure out it came from me/us anyway is my guess. Plus I feel they should get some sort of last chance before they really get into trouble.

I know now what kind of help can be offered to them; to the parents and the family. I have no idea how they will respond, but feel like I have to give this a try...

It's kinda scary though...

 

[Black Tulip]

Well, it's only a good thing because it worked. Could have backfired spectacularly.

Well, just remember. If you had done nothing things would certainly have gotten out of hand. Your gamble was worth taking.
In my opinion, at least.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Velvet is R the same towards you as he to his mother in the way he behaves, or do you have, or seem to have more control

Hmm... I think that I do but when I'm watching them, I'm watching them and I have the time to play and keep them entertained which L often doesn't.

They won't co-operate with non-violent punishment like staying in their rooms so I usually end up withholding things by way of getting them to behave. Or bribing them with the possibility of a treat. Sometimes I'll just cease to interact at all.

I cope with shouting by pretending not to understand, which they find funny at first but if they want something from me they have to speak normally. Just little things really.

I guess I'm slightly more of an unknown quantity with the boys so they're more wary. They do know not to push me on some issues.

I also don't have any conflict going on if I have charge of them in the way L and C do when they're home together. They can't play one person off against another.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I know. That's what I'm afraid of a bit. I actually called this afternoon and did not make an official complaint, just asked for information. I will call back in about three weeks. We decided that the best way was to try and talk to them first. I do not want to make an anonymous complaint because they will figure out it came from me/us anyway is my guess. Plus I feel they should get some sort of last chance before they really get into trouble.

I know now what kind of help can be offered to them; to the parents and the family. I have no idea how they will respond, but feel like I have to give this a try...

It's kinda scary though...

I am sure that these people know they are not coping well. Calling your 5 yr old girl such an awful name for example is a symptom of extreme problems and however simple they may be, they're not stupid.

Everything you have said here has shown your genuine concern and I hope that if you approach these people in the same way they'll acknowledge that some changes have to be made. How is the relationship between the parents? Kids can become such pawns in these things and they may not realise that's what they're truly doing.

 

[mickyp123]

I know. That's what I'm afraid of a bit. I actually called this afternoon and did not make an official complaint, just asked for information. I will call back in about three weeks. We decided that the best way was to try and talk to them first. I do not want to make an anonymous complaint because they will figure out it came from me/us anyway is my guess. Plus I feel they should get some sort of last chance before they really get into trouble.

I know now what kind of help can be offered to them; to the parents and the family. I have no idea how they will respond, but feel like I have to give this a try...

It's kinda scary though...

You could be in a no win situation, if you do nothing and it escalated you may feel you were to blame for not acting sooner.

If you report it, you could invoke the support they need, and may not get until something is said

 

[M's girl]

You could be in a no win situation, if you do nothing and it escalated you may feel you were to blame for not acting sooner.

If you report it, you could invoke the support they need, and may not get until something is said

Hmmmm.... I know.

The good thing is (sort of) that I'm somehow not afraid it will escalate into something worse than it is now. I mean, I don't suspect or see (or hear) any physical abuse and I don't think it will escalate into that (soon).

I will keep you all updated, if you wish...

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hmmmm.... I know.

The good thing is (sort of) that I'm somehow not afraid it will escalate into something worse than it is now. I mean, I don't suspect or see (or hear) any physical abuse and I don't think it will escalate into that (soon).

I will keep you all updated, if you wish...

It may be that your suggesting that they need this kind of intervention will be enough to motivate these people to change. If they are not violent (and unfortunately you can never really be sure) and have affection for the kids and each other deep down, you may never need to take that final step.

Would love to hear what happens please M's girl

 

[mickyp123]

Hmmmm.... I know.

The good thing is (sort of) that I'm somehow not afraid it will escalate into something worse than it is now. I mean, I don't suspect or see (or hear) any physical abuse and I don't think it will escalate into that (soon).

I will keep you all updated, if you wish...

its a good thing about lit, yes we wish

 

[Sarojaede]

MG--you might want to report it anonymously, especially if the house if filthy. In some cases, the condition of the house could violate health codes, which can be construed as abuse and neglect to the point that social services will step in.

 

[M's girl]

MG--you might want to report it anonymously, especially if the house if filthy. In some cases, the condition of the house could violate health codes, which can be construed as abuse and neglect to the point that social services will step in.

Well, that too yeah.... I don't know... filthy? Yes, it is, most of the times I'm there. Dog and cat pee everywhere, the kitchen clogged with all sorts of everything most of the time. I have seen worse though, I'm afraid, but still the conditions are poor to say the least. If that were all I would not say anything though... some people are like that and it's not like they get sick all the time.

You know, the children seem to be healthy on average. Just the normal kids deseases sometimes. It's also not like they seem unhappy all the time. That's what makes it hard to decide what to do, although I have already made up my mind.

I have contemplated doing an anonymous report but I'm afraid it will lead back to us anyway. I'm also not a very good liar and I know she (they) would confront me/us big time about it. It would show, even if I would say I (we) was not the one that reported them. So after a good talk with Dutch AMK (where you report child abuse or ask for advice) I have decided to give the good old talk a try. I have been offered help which I will gladly take from them ánd someone who turns out to be an expert in the field over at Dutch Lit. I have given myself three weeks to accomplish the first step; after that I will be in contact with AMK again. I'll keep you all updated (I probably need to vent after the talk and whatever results from that anyway )

Thank you all so far, for the support and stories!

 

[TheCurious]

I don't know what things are like in -your- country... but I live in the US and I'd make sure things were -really- bad before calling child protective services.

Once you get CPS involved things usually turn real bad, real fast. The foster care network in this country is overburdened at best, filled with abuse itself at worst. Changing out semi-abusive parents for semi-abusive foster parents isn't exactly a great trade.

I guess it falls into the "easy for you to say" category since I was raised by two loving wonderful parents and my wife and I are raising our adorable daughter the same way... but honestly if the kids are doing ok for the most part with just slackard stupid parents, what will getting them pulled out of the family and possibly seperated from each other accomplish? Most of my friends growing up had what I'd consider to be mildly retarded and incredibly poor parental figures. They all turned out ok

Being a teacher has taught me that children are incredibly resilient. I swear to you that at least 90 percent of my kids are abused in some way, but the majority of them still manage to do pretty well in school and adapt.

Anyways, you see it with your own eyes, so its your call. Just make sure that what happens after you make the call isn't worse than whats already going on.

 

[kristyna]

First, personally don't think it is a good idea to confront a person on the way they are parenting their children. I, personally, would tell you where to get off, what makes you think you or your "parenting style" are any better than I am. People get defensive very quickly when it comes to their children.

Secondly, as one poster stated .. invite the children into your home and set boundries. I have done this on many occasions with my kids' friends. You are in my house, you live by my rules or go home .. very simple. When my children were younger my then husband (ex now, thankfully) and I moved into a new neighborhood. My son soon met and invited over some of the boys in the neighborhood. They were all outside playing in the back yard when one of the boys started cursing and throwing things. My son told him that they were not allowed to do that, the boy continued. I stepped out the back door and told the child, you do it again you go home. This 9 year old boy told me I couldn't send him home .. long story short, he went home. He returned two days later, apologized and asked if he could play with my son. That child ended up being the sweetest kid you'd ever want to know and would come to my house to play even when the kids were not there.

My suggestion is this ... don't confront the parents, just say in an offhanded manner "did you know we can hear you yelling in the morning/at night?" Maybe they simply do not realize they are being heard. Let the kids come over, make them feel welcome, set boundries and stick to them .. soon they will learn to either live by the rules or they simply won't come over any more.

Good luck with whatever it is you decide to do.


My opinions and advice are absolutely free ... hey, you get what you pay for.

 

[Black Tulip]

The first thing when dealing with child abuse, is not point the finger at the parents. In most cases they don't know any better, are frustrated, whatever.

You can discuss things without accusing people.

 

[SweetErika]

My suggestion is this ... don't confront the parents, just say in an offhanded manner "did you know we can hear you yelling in the morning/at night?" Maybe they simply do not realize they are being heard. Let the kids come over, make them feel welcome, set boundries and stick to them .. soon they will learn to either live by the rules or they simply won't come over any more.

I didn't get the impression that M's girl's problem was with how the kids were acting in her home or that her and M could hear the parents yelling, but more that the way the kids are acting is indicative of the abuse they are enduring at home, including having terrible names/insults screamed at them.

In the situation you presented--other kids behaving badly in my home--I'd absolutely agree with you in not confronting the parents other than letting them and the kids know my rules stand in my domain; however, in a situation where kids are being abused, I wouldn't want to be so casual that the parents would simply continue, being a little more discreet with the abuse (e.g. call them names in more quiet voices, not allow them to come to my home, which is probably a refuge).

I've been keeping up with this thread (but didn't have anything useful to contribute), M's girl, and good for you for not ignoring the needs of those kids and asking for help! As the bumper stickers on our police cars say, "Domestic Violence is EVERYBODY'S business," which is certainly true for child abuse, too - in addition to what those kids are suffering now, what will they grow up to be if someone like you doesn't step in and advocate for their welfare? By being strong, you're likely preventing another generation from continuing the cycle of dysfunction and abuse. I'd give you more if I could, but for now, x 12 and thank you will have to do.

 

[M's girl]

I didn't get the impression that M's girl's problem was with how the kids were acting in her home or that her and M could hear the parents yelling, but more that the way the kids are acting is indicative of the abuse they are enduring at home, including having terrible names/insults screamed at them.

In the situation you presented--other kids behaving badly in my home--I'd absolutely agree with you in not confronting the parents other than letting them and the kids know my rules stand in my domain; however, in a situation where kids are being abused, I wouldn't want to be so casual that the parents would simply continue, being a little more discreet with the abuse (e.g. call them names in more quiet voices, not allow them to come to my home, which is probably a refuge).

I've been keeping up with this thread (but didn't have anything useful to contribute), M's girl, and good for you for not ignoring the needs of those kids and asking for help! As the bumper stickers on our police cars say, "Domestic Violence is EVERYBODY'S business," which is certainly true for child abuse, too - in addition to what those kids are suffering now, what will they grow up to be if someone like you doesn't step in and advocate for their welfare? By being strong, you're likely preventing another generation from continuing the cycle of dysfunction and abuse. I'd give you more if I could, but for now, x 12 and thank you will have to do.

Thank you Eika, for your support. You know how highly I value your opinion. I highlighted the first paragraph because that's exactly it. Of course I do not LIKE the yelling and screaming because it's annoying... but that is not the main reason. School has started again today in our area in NL. This morning I woke up again to the screaming and yelling. "Get dressed NOW!" ... "Fucking moron eat your bread, you have to go to school in 15 minutes"... Of course the little one cried.. almost threw a tantrum (wouldn't you?) and was disciplined for that again of course....

When they are in my house I usually have some sort of grip on them. But I also feel like I have to be stricter to 'our own' kids than I need to be with them (M's boys) when those kids (neighbours) are around. Because M's boys behave quite well most of the time but if you give those other two the same 'freedom' around your house, things will break and fights will be guaranteed. So, it's doable, but there is always tension and also all attention goes to them, instead of M's children we only see every other weekend. That's why we don't always want the neighbour children to visit...

But it's horrible to know and see and hear WHY they are like that. I also understand them, if that makes sense... And I must admit: I hate yelling, even if it's not done to/at me. And this morning, waking up... I lie stiffened in my bed, feeling awful. My heart is beating fast and I feel so upset. This is how I wake up every morning. Just think how those children must feel?!

What Black Tulip said makes a lot of sense. I need to talk to her, 'cause she knows about these things. I do not even WANT to point fingers! I do not want for the children to be seperated from their parents. Hell no! If there was a magic word I could say to make them behave differently, I would do it. But it's not as simple as that, and now I need to figure out what's the best way to go about it!

Thank you all, again, for advising me