RESEARCH: Question for musicians

[CharleyH]

Aside from a brief violin experience too long ago to recount and other than simply enjoying music, I know very little about the mechanics of instrumentation.

I am currently writing a story whereby the main character is at least more knowledgeable on the topic than I, and in order to properly articulate this, I require the assistance of all you musicians out there. I am particularly attempting to describe a song by Everlast called What Its Like and while I can do this with a description of how the character moves her body, I still require technical expertise. I have provided a hyperlink to those of you who have not heard the song and require it.

My questions are:
1) At the beginning of the song there is a guitar solo. Would this part of the song be considered a guitar riff or is it too brief?
2) What do you call the point where the rest of the instruments and vocals kick in, if there is a name for that turning point?

Also, if you have anything else to add about this particular piece of music, by all means I would love to hear it, as one never knows how opinions can stimulate the imagination.

For those of you, like me, who that are not so musical and are reading this thread and wish to participate: We have more than often discussed music on Lit and I am not sure which subjects we have not covered, but I will try ... As writers, do you ever get a song in your head that you cannot detach from a character? I know that in RL, and despite that we may have heard a thousand songs with any one person, somehow only one song hauntingly reminds us of past lovers or people we have or do know. Any thoughts on this statement?

 

[jomar]

My questions are:
1) At the beginning of the song there is a guitar solo. Would this part of the song be considered a guitar riff or is it too brief?
2) What do you call the point where the rest of the instruments and vocals kick in, if there is a name for that turning point?

As to #1 it might best be described as an intro (introduction). I don't know of a technical name, not being a musician. Don't know on #2.

Music anchors events and people in my life. As for characters, I'm writing a story where music reminds the main character of women he has slept with - he likes to have music when he makes love. He's flying a plane, listening to music, thinking of the women, then a song comes on that takes him back to a tragedy in his life and we learn more about him (I'm trying a little character development for a change).

 

[S-Des]

No, it's not a solo. You could call it an intro, but that is a general term for anything that comes before the verse. He's arpeggiating chords, which is basically fancy chord strumming. He's also playing the same thing under the verse, so the Intro is just the same riff.

Usually you seperate the vocal parts by referring to them as Verse, Chorus, and Bridge (anything that is a seperate piece of music that joins the others). In modern music, the construction is pretty simplistic. There is no word for the other instruments beginning, however in this instance they start at the beginning of the verse.

 

[Liar]

I'm just a self taugh layman, but here goes:

1. I wouldn't call the intro to What It's Like a solo really. It's pretty much the main riff of the song in a slightly fleshed out version. "Opening riffs" might be a way to describe it.

2. I've heard it called a "threshold", but I'm not sure how commonly accepted that is as a musician's term. I've only heard it used in recording and production rather than when playing, and mostly for electronic music.

 

[CharleyH]

As to #1 it might best be described as an intro (introduction). I don't know of a technical name, not being a musician. Don't know on #2.

Music anchors events and people in my life. As for characters, I'm writing a story where music reminds the main character of women he has slept with - he likes to have music when he makes love. He's flying a plane, listening to music, thinking of the women, then a song comes on that takes him back to a tragedy in his life and we learn more about him (I'm trying a little character development for a change).

Thanks, Jomar. How do you intend to (I do see part of it in what you have recounted thus far) make the song a part of the character development? IE. How does music work to develop your character? Is it lyrics? Rhythm? Beat? (Only if you care to share) thanks so far.

 

[CharleyH]

I'm just a self taugh layman, but here goes:

1. I wouldn't call the intro to What It's Like a solo really. It's pretty much the main riff of the song in a slightly fleshed out version. "Opening riffs" might be a way to describe it.

2. I've heard it called a "threshold", but I'm not sure how commonly accepted that is as a musician's term. I've only heard it used in recording and production rather than when playing, and mostly for electronic music.

Cool and thanks, L. I thought it might be a riff because it is short, and a solo seems a little more Jimmy Page or Dave Navarro (length wise than this) to me. What do you mean by a "MAIN riff in a slightly fleshed out version."? (sorry, I am dense on this topic so need clarification to understand - thank you.)

Threshold? A great word for it. I'll wait for more answers before committing to the word, yet thanks for your input - it offers much more insight than I currently have.

 

[Liar]

What do you mean by a "MAIN riff in a slightly fleshed out version."? (sorry, I am dense on this topic so need clarification to understand - thank you.)

It's the central riff of the song. The one that loops in the background all the way to the end and sets the chord changes, pace et al. But in the first few bars, it has some altered picking, more notes, a little improvising (on a second listen, eh, strike that, no impro). Ergo, main riff, but fleshed out.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

No, it's not a solo. You could call it an intro, but that is a general term for anything that comes before the verse. He's arpeggiating chords, which is basically fancy chord strumming. He's also playing the same thing under the verse, so the Intro is just the same riff.

Usually you seperate the vocal parts by referring to them as Verse, Chorus, and Bridge (anything that is a seperate piece of music that joins the others). In modern music, the construction is pretty simplistic. There is no word for the other instruments beginning, however in this instance they start at the beginning of the verse.

There is a name for it in Radio terminologies. I've heard it used before. It's where the DJ talks over the music until, and I'm guessing from memory here, the DJ talks over the music until the Post int he song. After that point it's polite for them to shut the fuck up and let the song play.

Side note:
I'm so glad I have satellite radio where the DJs don't talk over the music anymore. I don't mide DJs but I would rather hear the songs without them talking over them.

 

[jomar]

Thanks, Jomar. How do you intend to (I do see part of it in what you have recounted thus far) make the song a part of the character development? IE. How does music work to develop your character? Is it lyrics? Rhythm? Beat? (Only if you care to share) thanks so far.

Happy to share, Charley. I guess if I thought about it I'd have to say the music is a gimmick to introduce the fact that he's slept around a lot, for one thing. In the first chapter I mention Belle and Sebastian are playing when he and a new lover have sex. In the second chapter the "tragic" song itself evokes memories and feelings because it was the high school prom theme and his girlfriend was killed in a car wreck. We learn that her death created a burning anger that drove him to hyper-achievements. Then in another scene another lover to sways seductively to music while disrobing (taking off her baseball cap and mechanics overalls-sexy stuff!).

So I guess some rhythm is used as a setting (?) and other bands and songs become part of the history of the character that he mostly enjoys associating with memories. Hopefully, it'll add more texture or whatever you call such devices. I have no real knowledge of writing theory and technical stuff. I'm pretty much winging it.

Now that I think about it I have to write in some back ground music at a restaurant scene where readers learn of the hero's background.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think the nomenclature question has been well covered
Music? oh god, yes, always, always.

When I was writing "Sarabande" Of course, I started with Prince, Clinton, Bootsy, the Time- all funk classics. But as Tracy started to take shape, and this quality of devotion began to show- that scares the hell out of Stella- the soundtrack switched to balladeers- mostly Sting, with his intelligent yearning lyrics and music. But the music that is mentioned in "Sarabande" is all invented, Tracy's work.
Having a musician character allows for some very nice development;
At one point, he's fallen apart, telling Stella some family history, and they're about to walk into a store- and his own single is playing on the radio in there, and he turns and walks back out. He can't face the music, so to speak.

The Age Of Sail slash I'm indulging myself in right now, is going quite nicely with the ravaged voice of Shane MacGowan and the Pogues. Booze, sweat, general unwashedness, and rebellion.

(ETA) jomar, i want to read this!

 

[S-Des]

When I was writing "Sarabande" Of course, I started with Prince, Clinton, Bootsy, the Time- all funk classics.

I you.

 

[jomar]

(ETA) jomar, i want to read this!

Thanks Stella - that pleases me. I'm not sure. I'm halfway through a rough draft of ch3, with one or two more planned to wrap it up. There's a couple things I want to change/add to ch 1 and 2 - small things, not major revisions. I'd be happy to PM it to you if you want. A little feedback would probably be helpful. It's written as a cliffhanger with a larger than life hero. Think Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt stories with sex. Let me know if you'd like a preview.

 

[CharleyH]

It's the central riff of the song. The one that loops in the background all the way to the end and sets the chord changes, pace et al. But in the first few bars, it has some altered picking, more notes, a little improvising (on a second listen, eh, strike that, no impro). Ergo, main riff, but fleshed out.

lol - thanks sweets.

 

[CharleyH]

I think the nomenclature question has been well covered
Music? oh god, yes, always, always.

When I was writing "Sarabande" Of course, I started with Prince, Clinton, Bootsy, the Time- all funk classics. But as Tracy started to take shape, and this quality of devotion began to show- that scares the hell out of Stella- the soundtrack switched to balladeers- mostly Sting, with his intelligent yearning lyrics and music. But the music that is mentioned in "Sarabande" is all invented, Tracy's work.
Having a musician character allows for some very nice development;
At one point, he's fallen apart, telling Stella some family history, and they're about to walk into a store- and his own single is playing on the radio in there, and he turns and walks back out. He can't face the music, so to speak.

The Age Of Sail slash I'm indulging myself in right now, is going quite nicely with the ravaged voice of Shane MacGowan and the Pogues. Booze, sweat, general unwashedness, and rebellion.

(ETA) jomar, i want to read this!

I think you have just become as officially and suspiciously mysterious as me!

Ahhh (L)

Thanks for your great take, Stell.

 

[CharleyH]

Also to add ... before the insane take over my asylum? I do want an answer. I appreciate Liars take ... just want a second opinion here.

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

Its an intro. With R&B the structure is goverened by the lyrics, which is usually 3 verses + chorus -- fadeout on chorus.

Pop and R&B music is layered. The intro is usually one or two layers, and more and more layers come in. The chorus has more layers than the verse, and the drum gets busier, usually going from straight 4's to 8's on the hihat. The chords and riffs don't change much, if at all.

 

[CharleyH]

Its an intro. With R&B the structure is goverened by the lyrics, which is usually 3 verses + chorus -- fadeout on chorus.

Pop and R&B music is layered. The intro is usually one or two layers, and more and more layers come in. The chorus has more layers than the verse, and the drum gets busier, usually going from straight 4's to 8's on the hihat. The chords and riffs don't change much, if at all.

I get this Dr. S ... so what is your pop culture spin?

 

[CharleyH]

Sweet bump for the music in you.

 

[CharleyH]

Bump - waiting ...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Lovie, this song has a pretty simple structure- the part you're asking about is just an intro and the first verse. There are more complex pop constructions out there.

Here's what i would say, if I had to describe the song;

It's a protest song, in the great tradition of such.

The vocals are deadpan, in contrast to poignant and specific lyrics. (that's a great video, by the way)

The song might be called a slow rockin' hip-hop- it has the steady one-two one-two beat of Hip Hop, but you can hear that morph into the four-four beat of rock towards the end of the song. Since both beats are symmetrical it's an almost seamless transition... the lead guitar is mostly acoustic, blues-based, backed up with synth keyboards that come up to the foreground in the last chorus...

How's that?

 

[CharleyH]

How's that?

Thanks love. It's your op - what can I say other than I love it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thanks love. It's your op - what can I say other than I love it?

since you ask;

how about "Thanks, Stella, for cudgeling your lazy brain into gear and remembering your music theory classes from so long ago..."

or;

"I didn't understand one thing you just said, and I think you're pulling out of your ass."

or;

"That's exactly the bullshit I need to baffle with, thanks!"

 

[CharleyH]

since you ask;

how about "Thanks, Stella, for cudgeling your lazy brain into gear and remembering your music theory classes from so long ago..."

or;

"I didn't understand one thing you just said, and I think you're pulling out of your ass."

or;

"That's exactly the bullshit I need to baffle with, thanks!"

LOL - I think I LOVE YOU STELL - will suffice at this time. LOL ( although a Partridge Family song does come to mind here)

 

[Stella_Omega]

LOL - I think I LOVE YOU STELL - will suffice at this time. LOL ( although a Partridge Family song does come to mind here)

semiotics only work when your conversant knows the same signals you do.

For instance, I don't know shit about the Partridge Family so I can't guess the song you're thinking of...

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

I get this Dr. S ... so what is your pop culture spin?

I believe it's some sort of primitive mating ritual