Sarah Palin

[Huckleman2000]

That's true, but the fact that the writer overlooked such a major fact doesn't give me much confidence in his wisdom either.

Box, are you incapable of separating an argument from its author?

Perhaps the author deliberately left out the atom bomb decision since it was part of an already years-old war that Truman already understood in the context of his Vice Presidency under FDR. That is to say, it was not a new foreign policy challenge, nor one which arose due to the non-wartime actions of other countries. In making his decision, Truman was not formulating new foreign policy, as he was when instituting what came to be known as the Truman Doctrine at the outset of the Cold War.

[eta] The author's point is that there is nothing in Sarah Palin's history that suggests she has the experience, understanding, or intellectual underpinning to formulate a "Doctrine" of her own.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Box, are you incapable of separating an argument from its author?

Perhaps the author deliberately left out the atom bomb decision since it was part of an already years-old war that Truman already understood in the context of his Vice Presidency under FDR. That is to say, it was not a new foreign policy challenge, nor one which arose due to the non-wartime actions of other countries. In making his decision, Truman was not formulating new foreign policy, as he was when instituting what came to be known as the Truman Doctrine at the outset of the Cold War.

Actually, Truman did not know about the nuclear bomb. FDR had very little confidence in his last Veep, who had only been in office for a short time anyhow. And, HST got heavily involved in foreign policy at the Potsdam Conference right after he took office.

All I am saying is this: If somebody makes a statement, and is wrong or omits some salient facts, I have little confidence in what he is saying. This is something like the Biden thread I started, where Joe Biden starts out by saying how leaders should be sure of their facts, or something like that, and then makes two horrible blunders.

 

[DeeZire]

If somebody makes a statement, and is wrong or omits some salient facts, I have little confidence in what he is saying.

So um...Box..., is this where you correct all the wrong statements you've posted around here? I'd go back and hunt down a few, but they're not my problem, they're yours.

I'm sure we could find wrong statements by McCain and Palin that you've so naively defended. Or find a few of the Fox News talking points that you parrot, since they're usually based on the omission of salient facts. I mean, if you want to set the record straight, so we'll have more confidence in what you're saying, I'd be open to that.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

They showed another part of the Couric interview on MSNBC. (I know. They're terrifically biased, but fun.) In this piece of tape, they're walking backstage and Couric's asking Palin where she gets her news, what newspapers she reads, and Palin says, "Oh, I read them. All of them. Whatever they put in front of me."

When Couric presses her to name one, she can't.

By now, everyone's heard that she was also unable to name any Supreme Court case besides Roe v. Wade too, I suppose.

Harry Truman, she ain't.

 

[Guest]

They showed another part of the Couric interview on MSNBC. (I know. They're terrifically biased, but fun.) In this piece of tape, they're walking backstage and Couric's asking Palin where she gets her news, what newspapers she reads, and Palin says, "Oh, I read them. All of them. Whatever they put in front of me."

When Couric presses her to name one, she can't.

By now, everyone's heard that she was also unable to name any Supreme Court case besides Roe v. Wade too, I suppose.

Harry Truman, she ain't.

Dan Quayle, even, she ain't.

Oh, the fodder for late night TV!

 

[jomar]

Dan Quayle, even, she ain't.

Oh, the fodder for late night TV!

True. I'm sure Few is voting against McCain, but if they win she's got four years of SNL writing itself.

 

[neonlyte]

She kept looking over to her dad (McCain) for help.

He kept interrupting Katie to defend.

It probably kills him he won't be able to be there Thursday night.

Let us hope not... it's too late to nominate a replacement

WTF was McCain thinking about? You wouldn't vote for a ticket with Palin if she was advocating bringing back Woodstock.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Let us hope not... it's too late to nominate a replacement

WTF was McCain thinking about? You wouldn't vote for a ticket with Palin if she was advocating bringing back Woodstock.

What he was thinking is the very apotheosis of Republican politics today, something they've learned over the last 8 years: politics as theater, where ability doesn't matter, truth doesn't matter, competence doesn't matter. All that matters is appearance. They've learned you can lie and people don't care. You can misrepresent and people don't care. As long as you give people someone they like, nothing else matters, and the most surprising thing about this whole Palin affair is that this time they're not getting away with it. This time they over-reached

 

[tickledkitty]

They showed another part of the Couric interview on MSNBC. (I know. They're terrifically biased, but fun.) In this piece of tape, they're walking backstage and Couric's asking Palin where she gets her news, what newspapers she reads, and Palin says, "Oh, I read them. All of them. Whatever they put in front of me."

When Couric presses her to name one, she can't.

By now, everyone's heard that she was also unable to name any Supreme Court case besides Roe v. Wade too, I suppose.

Harry Truman, she ain't.

I saw that too. She didn't answer any of the questions, just kept talking and talking in circles. I thought the SNL sketch, which I'd seen first, was probably over the top, but no. It was pretty right on.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I saw that too. She didn't answer any of the questions, just kept talking and talking in circles. I thought the SNL sketch, which I'd seen first, was probably over the top, but no. It was pretty right on.

I can't tell if she's really that stupid, or she's just so scared of misspeaking that she freezes? (My mind doesn't even want to fathom the former!)

 

[Boxlicker101]

So um...Box..., is this where you correct all the wrong statements you've posted around here? I'd go back and hunt down a few, but they're not my problem, they're yours.

I'm sure we could find wrong statements by McCain and Palin that you've so naively defended. Or find a few of the Fox News talking points that you parrot, since they're usually based on the omission of salient facts. I mean, if you want to set the record straight, so we'll have more confidence in what you're saying, I'd be open to that.

Okay. Just point out the factual errors I have made, and I will correct them. If I said that FDR was the president during the 1929 Stock Market Crash, the way Joe Biden did, I will accept that I am wrong. If I say FDR went on TV after the stock market crash, I will correct that error also. If I made a reference to visiting all 57 states the way Obama did, I will correct that misstatement. I also know how to spell "potato" and the plural. Potatoes.

However, if I have just stated an opinion or a prediction, that might be a different matter. I can change my mind, but it takes facts to induce me to do so. If you can find factual errors uttered by either McCain or Palin, or anybody else, I will acknowledge that they are errors, assuming they are actually proven to be errors.

However, the proof must not be unsupported statements by persons who have animosity toward McCain or Pailin or Republicans in general, such as MSNBC or the NY Times or The Huffington Post or a disgruntled librarian in Wasilla or similar people or entities.

 

[Varian P]

Palin is the master of the non-answer

I watched it earlier today too. I don't believe she actually answered one question. Maybe I missed it though. Did she? I mean, it was like watching the SNL interview all over again.

"I've Debated Palin More Than Twenty Times--Here's What It's Like"

I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality . . .

In 2000, Palin was the mayor of an Alaskan town of 5,500 people, while Biden was serving his 28th year as a United States senator. Her major public policy concern was building a local ice rink and sports center. His major public policy concern was the State Department's decision to grant an export license to allow sales of heavy-lift helicopters to Turkey, during tense UN-sponsored Cyprus peace talks . . .

On paper, the difference in experience on both domestic and foreign policy is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing a bullet. Unfortunately for Biden, if recent history is an indicator, experience or a grasp of the issues won't matter when it comes to debating Palin . . .

 

[jomar]

"I've Debated Palin More Than Twenty Times--Here's What It's Like"

I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality . . .

In 2000, Palin was the mayor of an Alaskan town of 5,500 people, while Biden was serving his 28th year as a United States senator. Her major public policy concern was building a local ice rink and sports center. His major public policy concern was the State Department's decision to grant an export license to allow sales of heavy-lift helicopters to Turkey, during tense UN-sponsored Cyprus peace talks . . .

On paper, the difference in experience on both domestic and foreign policy is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing a bullet. Unfortunately for Biden, if recent history is an indicator, experience or a grasp of the issues won't matter when it comes to debating Palin . . .

One guy on NPR said he reviewed her debate tapes and she did very well on the state level.

 

[Varian P]

One guy on NPR said he reviewed her debate tapes and she did very well on the state level.

What did he mean by "very well"?

The guy in the article I referenced also said Palin did very well--just that she did so by dodging questions rather than by answering them.

 

[shereads]

On paper, the difference in experience on both domestic and foreign policy is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing a bullet. Unfortunately for Biden, if recent history is an indicator, experience or a grasp of the issues won't matter when it comes to debating Palin . . .[/I]

That's what it all boils down to. If she doesn't vomit, the people who like her will say, "See? That wasn't so bad." All she has to do is repeat some right-wing mantra, like the one about terrorists hating us because of our Freedom, and she'll receive the Republican equivalent of the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

Even a disastrous performance by a VP candidate has never done much harm to the ticket. She could give an erroneous answer to every question on Thursday, and not lose McCain more than a point or two.

What's sad here is that McCain had infinite choices and chose Sarah Palin. He did what Karl Rove said the Obama campaign would be guilty of it they named someone whose experience was limited to being a state governor and former major: proved that winning matters more than governing.

 

[shereads]

Quote:
Whatever the political calculations involved in picking a veep, the most important qualification for the vice presidency is the ability to assume the presidency in a crisis. Given that of the last 12 presidents, three have either died or resigned, this is hardly a hypothetical consideration--in fact, given that McCain is 72, it is a very real consideration. Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, and Gerald Ford all faced multiple foreign policy crises immediately upon assuming office, whether it was the onset of the Cold War, the North's invasion of South Korea, the Vietnam War, or the withering of détente and the resulting increase in nuclear tension with the Soviet Union. The next president will have to finish the denuclearization of North Korea; prevent the nuclearization of Iran; organize a departure from Iraq that maintains some level of stability; defeat a resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan; establish, nurture, and make the most of a relationship with Pakistan's new leaders; and confront a revanchist Russia while preserving and enhancing its cooperation on nonproliferation and climate change--to say nothing of working with India, China, or our allies.

Could Sarah Palin conceivably manage this task? Her tenure as a small-town mayor and Alaska governor has given her no foreign policy experience whatsoever. True, Obama has little foreign policy experience either, as McCain and others have pointed out again and again. But during his time in national office he has demonstrated a clear commitment to the most pressing issues in American foreign policy. Take nuclear proliferation. Early in his tenure on the Foreign Relations Committee, Obama joined Richard Lugar's efforts to secure weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. Obama's first trip abroad as senator was to Russia and Ukraine to learn more about those efforts firsthand. In 2007, he cosponsored legislation with Senator Chuck Hagel calling for ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and negotiation of a fissile material cut-off treaty. And he was the first major presidential candidate to embrace the steps laid out in 2007 by Sam Nunn, Bill Perry, George Shultz, and Henry Kissinger through which the United States would fight nuclear terrorism, reinvigorate the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, and ultimately eliminate nuclear weapons.

Perhaps more important than the experience they embodied, these efforts demonstrate that Obama has a worldview. Obama recognizes the greatness and uniqueness of the United States, but he does not translate that exceptionalism into dominance or isolationism as conservatives often have. Instead, he sees it as the basis for U.S. leadership. He has laid out that worldview in myriad speeches and articles, and he has surrounded himself with pragmatists who have a record of translating that understanding of America's role into concrete gains for our national security. By contrast, there is no indication that Palin has even shades of a foreign policy worldview; a Nexis search doesn't turn up a single article that she has written on international affairs.

McCain undoubtedly thinks he has his national security bases covered; picking Palin shows that, unlike Obama, he doesn't need an eminence grise like Biden to add heft to his ticket. But surely McCain recognizes that Palin may have to fill his shoes someday. By choosing her anyway, he has demonstrated hubris well beyond anything Obama has displayed on his most arrogant day: a belief that he can master unforeseen circumstances, physical and otherwise, that are well beyond his control. This is insulting and dangerous and suggests that McCain may want to think twice before accusing Obama of putting his personal ambition ahead of the national interest.

No doubt Michelle is right that the Obama-Biden team will have to be careful attacking Palin's frighteningly thin resume and tenuous grasp of foreign policy. But surely a campaign that has been charged with being too naïve to manage rogue state dictators can have a bit of fun with the idea that a one-time Miss Congeniality could effectively face down Vladimir Putin, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Kim Jong Il. Surely, Obama's "eight is enough" quip ought to apply not only to President Bush's economic and foreign policy travesties, but to the elevation of mediocrity that has characterized his appointment of Michael Brown to FEMA and his nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. And surely we can agree that if the McCain campaign was desperate to transparently court voters put off by Hillary Clinton's loss, there is no dearth of women with far greater intellectual, executive, and political abilities--abilities that would allow them to assume the presidency in a heartbeat.

--Peter Scoblic

~ "The Plank" at The New Republic

Did you see the gaffe here? Look a few lines lower.





Harry Truman became president during WW2, and his first big decisions were dropping nuclear bombs. The Cold War came later.

Anyone: "Look, the forest is on fire!"

Box: "That's not really accurate. I see several plants that aren't even singed yet."





You, like Palin, have mastered the art of missing the point.

 

[Huckleman2000]

It's too bad we'll never get to see Hillary debate Sarah. In the words of a feminist friend of mine, "Hillary would make her cry."

 

[shereads]

It's too bad we'll never get to see Hillary debate Sarah. In the words of a feminist friend of mine, "Hillary would make her cry."

Katie Couric could have shredded her if she'd wanted to. She chose to handle her with kid gloves, and still got accused of "gotcha journalism."

And no wonder, with vicious out-of-the-blue questions like, "What newspapers and magazines do you read? Any favorites?"

 

[jomar]

What did he mean by "very well"?

The guy in the article I referenced also said Palin did very well--just that she did so by dodging questions rather than by answering them.

Apologies, I was in a hurry and should have posted more. It was a short blurb and it's a good bet he meant something along the lines of what you quoted, that she played well while not providing any substance whatsoever, since he didn't mention she argued points well. To paraphrase an old SNL character's line, "I'd rather look good that be good."

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Katie Couric could have shredded her if she'd wanted to. She chose to handle her with kid gloves, and still got accused of "gotcha journalism."

I heard someone say today, "It was more like a therapy session than an interview. I expected Couric to say, 'Our time is up, hold that thought...'"

 

[shereads]

I heard someone say today, "It was more like a therapy session than an interview. I expected Couric to say, 'Our time is up, hold that thought...'"

I heard that too...I had the impression that Couric was determined to avoid being accused of bringing a liberal slant to her interview with Palin - an accusation that will be made no matter what.

Honestly, if an interview that soft and deferential can be shrugged off as "gotcha journalism," what's a journalist supposed to do with Palin? Give her the questions in advance so she can practice?

More importantly, what happens when a head of state wants to play "gotcha politics"?

 

[neonlyte]

Honestly, if an interview that soft and deferential can be shrugged off as "gotcha journalism," what's a journalist supposed to do with Palin? Give her the questions in advance so she can practice?

I assumed she had

 

[shereads]

I assumed she had

Surely someone in the McCain campaign would have provided her with a sample list of favorite news sources and maybe suggested a couple of court decisions that have influenced American life (she couldn't think of any except for Roe v. Wade, but offered to find some later "and bring them to you." God help us all.)

Without googling, I can think of a few historically influential court decisions. Bush v Gore leaps to mind; Brown v Board of Education is one even non-readers absorb just from having existed in or near the United States.

To be fair, I live geographically closer to the Supreme Court than Sarah Palin does, which could explain why I can think of some historic cases and she can't. She is probably more familiar with Russian courts.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tickledkitty
I watched it earlier today too. I don't believe she actually answered one question. Maybe I missed it though. Did she? I mean, it was like watching the SNL interview all over again.

"I've Debated Palin More Than Twenty Times--Here's What It's Like"

I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality . . .

In 2000, Palin was the mayor of an Alaskan town of 5,500 people, while Biden was serving his 28th year as a United States senator. Her major public policy concern was building a local ice rink and sports center. His major public policy concern was the State Department's decision to grant an export license to allow sales of heavy-lift helicopters to Turkey, during tense UN-sponsored Cyprus peace talks . . .

On paper, the difference in experience on both domestic and foreign policy is like the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing a bullet. Unfortunately for Biden, if recent history is an indicator, experience or a grasp of the issues won't matter when it comes to debating Palin . . .

You know, if this guy had expanded on this to include the candidates for president who are, after all, the main event, he would have said something like this:

In 2000, Obama was in hs fourth year in the Illinois State Senate and challenged a sitting congressman of his own party in the primary election. McCain was in his 14th year as a senator and his 18th in Congress, after a 22 year career defending America as a member of the Navy.

On the other hand he probably wouldn't have mentioned those facts.

 

[sr71plt]

Regardless of all of this comparison claptrap, only one issue makes a difference to me on the vice presidential candidate: would I want that person as president?--because anything can (and has) happened to the president.

Without any regard for party politics at all, I have absolutely no trouble deciding whether Sarah Palin can step into that slot without sending chills up my spine. The answer is no. And then I flip it up to who made that decision and why. And that sends chills up my spine as well.

It's all pretty simple to me. All of this toing and froing on this thread couldn't change what my own lifetime of experience in government tells me in an instance vis-a-vis Sarah Palin as she currently is configured.

(And, yes, I feel a little chilly about Obama too. But John McCain's short-sighted--and a little crazy--decision on a running mate decided that for me in a flash. Thanks, John. You make it easy for me.)