Sex and True Love

[EternalStudent]

This is probably going to seem like the exact opposite of what most people are asking around here but I can't think of a better place to ask the question.

My fiance and I recently got engaged, we've been in love for years but both of us want to wait until we're married before we have sex. It also looks like we're going to be engaged for a long time. I'm looking forward to enjoying the fantastic experience of being engaged to my true love but we are getting stuck on the physical side of things. I'm desperate for any advice anyone can give to help us keep our hands off each other!

This is a serious question as its a big part of our relationship that we both want to control. Might be strange for some to understand but we both want to save ourselves for one another come that special wedding night

Thanks for any helpful advice everyone!

 

[Kissophile]

This is hardly the first time such a question has been raised. If you search The Blank Manual (you can find it at the top of the list of thread topics in this forum), you will find a section called "Sex, First time and Birth control F.A.Q" and in there are several links to threads on similar topics.

While you're at it, I strongly urge you also to read every thread you can find on problems people have in their relationships when they discover that the partners have widely differing needs for sex. Sometimes these differences do not become apparent until after quite a bit of time together, yet by that time they threaten to destroy the relationship. For this reason, marrying before you have a sex life together - while it is seen as admirable by many people and many institutions - is an exceptionally risky endeavor.

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

This is probably going to seem like the exact opposite of what most people are asking around here but I can't think of a better place to ask the question.

My fiance and I recently got engaged, we've been in love for years but both of us want to wait until we're married before we have sex. It also looks like we're going to be engaged for a long time. I'm looking forward to enjoying the fantastic experience of being engaged to my true love but we are getting stuck on the physical side of things. I'm desperate for any advice anyone can give to help us keep our hands off each other!

This is a serious question as its a big part of our relationship that we both want to control. Might be strange for some to understand but we both want to save ourselves for one another come that special wedding night

Thanks for any helpful advice everyone!

Well it matter what you MEAN by abstience. My darling and I practice abstinence from sex, but we still satisfy each other in other ways such as mutual masterbation, oral, handjobs, roleplay ^_^ there are many many more ways to please a person then just sex. I see my time before marriage as a time to master exactly what pleases my dearest, and then after marriage I can have the fun of learning that all over again with sex.

If you mean abstinence as in no sexual activity whatsoever... can''t help you there. It's a noble thing, but not something I would hold myself to.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

** steps quietly out of the thread*** biting tongue - HARD!

 

[Bobmi357]

Its a noble idea. Stupid but noble. I bet you're also the type to buy a car without test driving it, or a home without a home inspection.

Two years after you wed, you'll be posting such wonderful posts as "How can I turn my partner from Sister Mary into a Wife slut?", or posting to the monogamy haters thread. Two years after that you'll be posting asking for divorce advice.

Sex is important. Perhaps its not right up there with breathing and eating, but its necessary in a monogamous relationship. To swear it off for some noble and ancient misguided idea means you will be going to your wedding bed totally unprepared and with half formed relationship.

I have no advice to offer about keeping your hands off her. I think you're both nuts for even wanting to try. I wish you both luck, but I suspect that leaving this important aspect out of the relationship today will make it that much harder after the wedding to come to grips with any differences you might have in bed.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

C'mon - we're not monogamy HATERS!!!! lol

 

[ReadyOne]

If you've got a long engagement, then GET the SEX STARTED!

The PEA wears off after a year or two and its effects like causing you to ignore anything about the other which rubs you the wrong way fade away.

So if you're engaged for a couple of years, and you have the fullest sex life you can starting as early as you can, by the time the wedding rolls around the rose colored glasses become quite clear.

I'd be much more comfortable knowing that I could live long term with someone after I got throught the initial lust phase and could see them much more clearly.

 

[BlueSugar]

This is hardly the first time such a question has been raised. If you search The Blank Manual (you can find it at the top of the list of thread topics in this forum), you will find a section called "Sex, First time and Birth control F.A.Q" and in there are several links to threads on similar topics.

While you're at it, I strongly urge you also to read every thread you can find on problems people have in their relationships when they discover that the partners have widely differing needs for sex. Sometimes these differences do not become apparent until after quite a bit of time together, yet by that time they threaten to destroy the relationship. For this reason, marrying before you have a sex life together - while it is seen as admirable by many people and many institutions - is an exceptionally risky endeavor.

*blushes* its been plugged already!! yay!!

Joking aside, yes, click on the manual... and there are a couple of threads dedicated to virgins and spiceing up what you can do between the sheets and just for fun and games. Check out the household items threads as well, you don't have to go for penetration- but there are a million fun things to play around with in there.
Also- I believe there are a few toy sites in there for goodies and lotions and things.
You can also start threads elseware on Lit (careful of the GB, they're a little tough, just stick it out and ignore the meanies) asking about who else waited, why, and what they did. Some remained sexless through their engagement (and some of them were quite long)

But off lit- there are books in your book store for "cooking naked", and things like "the art of sensual massage" and "reflex/sexual/massage-ology" books... they are fun and informative, and they help you grow as a couple with pleanty of hands on w/o sex. You learn dicipline and a different type of release of the energy and tension build up.

 

[EternalStudent]

Hi All

Thanks for everyone's replies, its great to hear people's views and advice. To let you all know its not like its a part of our relationship we've amputated or repressed! We're both young (I'm 22) and very very much in love. Over the years we've slipped of course and when it happens the heat and passion is there, for me its not a concern that we may not be compatable! We've not had sex but we've done an awful lot else!

I'm just after advice on control really, has anyone had to abstain from sex? How do you maintain self control? Not saying its for everyone but I know that I've found love when we promise to each other that we'll wait It really is the most amazing thing to keep that purity...

Not saying its for everyone, but I know its for me

 

[SweetErika]

I'm just after advice on control really, has anyone had to abstain from sex? How do you maintain self control?

We've abstained from intercourse (for entirely different reasons). Basically, we just did everything else and focuses on eachother's pleasure. And masturbation of course. Maybe viewing it as enjoying what you have now vs. missing/staying away from the sex will help. I think the idea that it's somehow "forbidden" and you have to control your urges makes it all the more tempting. If there's any way to reason your brain out of that idea, it might be easier.

If you find you can't last through the engagement, don't feel bad or guilty...it will probably be a very good thing you didn't wait. Sex with someone you love is never wrong or something to feel guilt over.

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

Its a noble idea. Stupid but noble. I bet you're also the type to buy a car without test driving it, or a home without a home inspection.

Two years after you wed, you'll be posting such wonderful posts as "How can I turn my partner from Sister Mary into a Wife slut?", or posting to the monogamy haters thread. Two years after that you'll be posting asking for divorce advice.

Sex is important. Perhaps its not right up there with breathing and eating, but its necessary in a monogamous relationship. To swear it off for some noble and ancient misguided idea means you will be going to your wedding bed totally unprepared and with half formed relationship.

I have no advice to offer about keeping your hands off her. I think you're both nuts for even wanting to try. I wish you both luck, but I suspect that leaving this important aspect out of the relationship today will make it that much harder after the wedding to come to grips with any differences you might have in bed.

I have to disagree, at least in my experiance Bobmi. Sex isn't as important as a full sexual life with the other person. Sex is but one aspect of that, mutual masterbation, oral, toys, and many other things are aspects of the same thing. Having sexual experiances and knowing your partners likes and dislikes is VERY important, and choosing not to have sex doesn't mean you can't learn and enjoy your partner in other ways. That learning is the important thing in my opinion.

Not to disparage you or anything Bobmi ^_^ I really respect your opinions over here and would love to hear your thoughts in responce to what I just said.

And it isn't only for the ancient and misguided religious reason ^_~ I practice abstinence for a totally differant reason and I know others out there probubly have their own reasons.

-Zergplex

 

[Kissophile]

Re: Zergplex Says

I have to disagree, at least in my experiance Bobmi. Sex isn't as important as a full sexual life with the other person. Sex is but one aspect of that, mutual masterbation, oral, toys, and many other things are aspects of the same thing. Having sexual experiances and knowing your partners likes and dislikes is VERY important, and choosing not to have sex doesn't mean you can't learn and enjoy your partner in other ways. That learning is the important thing in my opinion.

Not to disparage you or anything Bobmi ^_^ I really respect your opinions over here and would love to hear your thoughts in responce to what I just said.

And it isn't only for the ancient and misguided religious reason ^_~ I practice abstinence for a totally differant reason and I know others out there probubly have their own reasons.

-Zergplex

This post confuses me, and because it's unusual for Zergplex to be confusing I would like to ask a question.

I'm unclear on your definition of "sex" in this post. It appears that you and your partner engage in such things as cunnilingus, fellatio, manual genital stimulation, and the use of foreign objects to genitally stimulate your partner. Am I correct in my reading here? If so, then how do you call what you are doing "abstinence?" Is it because you are not engaging in penis-in-vagina intercourse that you use the term "abstinence?"

If, by "sex" you mean PIV intercourse, then your statement, "Sex isn't as important as a full sexual life with the other person." makes a bit more sense to me.

Now, a question for EternalStudent: how are you defining "sex" in your question? And what did you mean in your later post when you said, "Over the years we've slipped of course and when it happens the heat and passion is there" - what did it mean to "slip?"

I think that, at least for me, it would be much easier to contribute a good answer to this thread if I knew more specifically how these specific terms are being used.

 

[wicked woman]

don't want to speak for Zergplex but since he appears to be offline...you interpretation of his definition of sex is what I understood him to mean...although personally it irks me when people think they are abstaining when they do everything but PIV....but it's their life...they get to do/think what they want...*Zergplex...not meant only for you...I've felt this way since before Clinton's stupid...I did not have sex...comment'

 

[bobsgirl]

Over the years we've slipped of course and when it happens the heat and passion is there, for me its not a concern that we may not be compatable! We've not had sex but we've done an awful lot else!

>snip<

I'm just after advice on control really, has anyone had to abstain from sex? How do you maintain self control?

We've not had sex but we've done an awful lot else? Sorry, but in my opinion, you've already had sex. Doing everything but intercourse...well, imho, that is NOT abstinence.

That being said, the only way I can see to really abstain from sex is to avoid putting yourself in situations that give you the opportunity to have sex. Never be alone with each other, that sort of thing.

I tend to see it more from Bobmi's point of view. Mismatched sex drives can cause more trouble than you can imagine.

Not for me, but if it means a lot to you two then I wish you luck.

 

[EternalStudent]

Clarification

Hi. Just to clear things up.
When I say sex I mean intercource but when I'm saying we're trying to abstain, I mean totally. Not just refraning from penetration, but not sharing our bodies at all until we're husband and wife.
I've said that we've slipped, and by that I mean we've satisfied eachothers desires. I've had some absolutly awsome handjobs and I've been down on my girl with great response. Recently she's experemented with going down on me
So I can see that for most people we're already 'having sex'. But we're trying to control ourselves and that's my question really. How do you be in love with someone and want to share your nights with them, without letting things get too hot?

 

[Kissophile]

Re: Clarification

Hi. Just to clear things up.
When I say sex I mean intercource but when I'm saying we're trying to abstain, I mean totally. Not just refraning from penetration, but not sharing our bodies at all until we're husband and wife.
I've said that we've slipped, and by that I mean we've satisfied eachothers desires. I've had some absolutly awsome handjobs and I've been down on my girl with great response. Recently she's experemented with going down on me
So I can see that for most people we're already 'having sex'. But we're trying to control ourselves and that's my question really. How do you be in love with someone and want to share your nights with them, without letting things get too hot?

To love someone means wanting the best possible life for that person. It means you want your partner to have the happiest possible life. How can you say you love your partner if you are willing to take the risk that you will both be miserable within a few years due to a mismatched sex drive?

At this point in your relationship and in your lives you have absolutely no idea how compatible you are in many ways. Your sexual compatibility is only one of them. Without any awareness of this compatibility, you're both taking a huge risk - on behalf of the person you say you love - by committing to a lifetime together in which you might make your partner miserable for 20, 30, 40 years or more.

I'd think your position over very, very carefully. And listen to those who have travelled this road before.

 

[Bobmi357]

We seem to be suffering from differing opinions as to just what "sex" means.

Unlike a former president, I define sex as any act which involves close contact with someone else's genitals for the purpose of giving that person pleasure. That includes, oral sex, anal sex, hand jobs, dry humping, titty fucking and just about any other means you can think of to get your rocks off without resorting to traditional vaginal sex.

I could just see me trying to explain to my wife, "But honey, she was giving me a handjob! It WASN'T SEX!!". Yeah right and I am great at ducking flying frying pans. She wouldn't buy it and I certainly wouldn't blame her because I wouldn't buy it coming from her either.

There are times when you must abstain from sex, either do to illness, or social reasons (Like sleeping over at your future in-laws house and Daddy decides to sleep in front of your door). I see nothing wrong with abstaining from time to time, and I mean abstaining. No Sex of any sort. Hell, the last 3 years of my first marriage were a total dry spell for me, except for solo masturbation. You survive, you don't die from a lack of sex and to be honest, if you're that horny and don't want to indulge your horniness with each other, take care of it yourself. But remember this, total abstention won't kill you. It won't make you sick. If you opt to indulge your hormones, then you're only following the simple fact that mother nature WANTS you to have sex. If it didn't, we do it once a year like so many of the animals in the animal kingdom.

I'd also like to point out that as stated above, the last three years of my first marriage were sexless. Sex became an issue between my wife and I, minor irritations blossomed into major grievances, issues which could have been laughed off were blown all out of proportion. And in the end, it killed the relationship.

This isn't about "Will she swallow?" or "Will he allow me to wear a strapon and fuck his ass?". Its more basic than that. You're talking about a fundamental part of a relationship over which you have no experience because by mutual consent, you've both opted to ignore it. What will you do if you suddenly find out after the wedding that she is happy with it once a month and you want it at least 3 times a week? What will you do if you find suddenly that she wants to explore her Bisexual nature ALONE? Or she comes home one day and says she wants to be bang ganged by a bunch of bikers while you film it wearing a tutu? Ok ok, extreme examples for sure, but I'm trying to drive home a point here.

Marriage isn't all about sex, and quite often the daily stress of living and trying to pay bills, feed the kids, job etc., often put a damper on your sex life. If you haven't learned to communicate verbally and sexually with your intended spouse before the wedding, you're in for some rough times later.

Short of living together before you get married, its just not possible to find out what you really need to know about a person from a series of dates. You know little about the other persons daily rituals, you don't know that they freak out if you touch their toothbrush, she doesn't know that if she tries to wake you up with a blowjob you might come awake in a startled panic. And when it comes to sex, this is one of those things where people say one thing and do another. What might sound good to you and her at 3am with half a bottle of wine in your system may not sound as good in the cold sober light of day.

My first wife and I talked about sex a lot before we got married. A lot was promised on both sides that really never materialized after the wedding. And I can tell you, we didn't go to the altar virgins.

I view sex as the second most important thing in my relationship with my second wife. Number one is my feelings for her and they drive my desire to have sex with her. But we lived together for several years before tying the knot. I knew her quirks, she knew mine. I wouldn't have had the chance to learn those quirks from a series of dates where she's on her best behavior, nor would she have learned about mine.

A lot of ones relationship is built on what you two can together build physically, and ignoring or trying to surpress those urges goes contrary to nature, and puts you at risk of being seriously unhappy later.

And now a private note to Zerg. Sorry friend, but my definition, you are having sex. You might not be having vaginal sex, but its sex all the same. You're doing basically everything I would be doing in a situation where I didn't want to risk a pregnancy.

 

[bobsgirl]

We seem to be suffering from differing opinions as to just what "sex" means.

Unlike a former president, I define sex as any act which involves close contact with someone else's genitals for the purpose of giving that person pleasure. That includes, oral sex, anal sex, hand jobs, dry humping, titty fucking and just about any other means you can think of to get your rocks off without resorting to traditional vaginal sex.

I could just see me trying to explain to my wife, "But honey, she was giving me a handjob! It WASN'T SEX!!". Yeah right and I am great at ducking flying frying pans. She wouldn't buy it and I certainly wouldn't blame her because I wouldn't buy it coming from her either.

There are times when you must abstain from sex, either do to illness, or social reasons (Like sleeping over at your future in-laws house and Daddy decides to sleep in front of your door). I see nothing wrong with abstaining from time to time, and I mean abstaining. No Sex of any sort. Hell, the last 3 years of my first marriage were a total dry spell for me, except for solo masturbation. You survive, you don't die from a lack of sex and to be honest, if you're that horny and don't want to indulge your horniness with each other, take care of it yourself. But remember this, total abstention won't kill you. It won't make you sick. If you opt to indulge your hormones, then you're only following the simple fact that mother nature WANTS you to have sex. If it didn't, we do it once a year like so many of the animals in the animal kingdom.

I'd also like to point out that as stated above, the last three years of my first marriage were sexless. Sex became an issue between my wife and I, minor irritations blossomed into major grievances, issues which could have been laughed off were blown all out of proportion. And in the end, it killed the relationship.

This isn't about "Will she swallow?" or "Will he allow me to wear a strapon and fuck his ass?". Its more basic than that. You're talking about a fundamental part of a relationship over which you have no experience because by mutual consent, you've both opted to ignore it. What will you do if you suddenly find out after the wedding that she is happy with it once a month and you want it at least 3 times a week? What will you do if you find suddenly that she wants to explore her Bisexual nature ALONE? Or she comes home one day and says she wants to be bang ganged by a bunch of bikers while you film it wearing a tutu? Ok ok, extreme examples for sure, but I'm trying to drive home a point here.

Marriage isn't all about sex, and quite often the daily stress of living and trying to pay bills, feed the kids, job etc., often put a damper on your sex life. If you haven't learned to communicate verbally and sexually with your intended spouse before the wedding, you're in for some rough times later.

Short of living together before you get married, its just not possible to find out what you really need to know about a person from a series of dates. You know little about the other persons daily rituals, you don't know that they freak out if you touch their toothbrush, she doesn't know that if she tries to wake you up with a blowjob you might come awake in a startled panic. And when it comes to sex, this is one of those things where people say one thing and do another. What might sound good to you and her at 3am with half a bottle of wine in your system may not sound as good in the cold sober light of day.

My first wife and I talked about sex a lot before we got married. A lot was promised on both sides that really never materialized after the wedding. And I can tell you, we didn't go to the altar virgins.

I view sex as the second most important thing in my relationship with my second wife. Number one is my feelings for her and they drive my desire to have sex with her. But we lived together for several years before tying the knot. I knew her quirks, she knew mine. I wouldn't have had the chance to learn those quirks from a series of dates where she's on her best behavior, nor would she have learned about mine.

A lot of ones relationship is built on what you two can together build physically, and ignoring or trying to surpress those urges goes contrary to nature, and puts you at risk of being seriously unhappy later.

And now a private note to Zerg. Sorry friend, but my definition, you are having sex. You might not be having vaginal sex, but its sex all the same. You're doing basically everything I would be doing in a situation where I didn't want to risk a pregnancy.

It's a long quote, I know, but, damn, Bobmi, how'd you get so smart?

 

[Bobmi357]

It's a long quote, I know, but, damn, Bobmi, how'd you get so smart?

heh, its not about being smart. Its about having the battle scars and the fact that hindsight is better than 20/20. Been there, done that, got the scars to show for it.

 

[bobsgirl]

heh, its not about being smart. Its about having the battle scars and the fact that hindsight is better than 20/20. Been there, done that, got the scars to show for it.

I hear ya. That's why I'm likely to pay attention to what you have to say.

 

[sxylegs]

** steps quietly out of the thread*** biting tongue - HARD!

aaawwww go ahead and say it......you know we all love it when you give your opinion.... Im being honest......they need to hear both sides and you can phrase it so well......

take care and have a great day!!!!

 

[SweetErika]

Re: Clarification

Hi. Just to clear things up.
When I say sex I mean intercource but when I'm saying we're trying to abstain, I mean totally. Not just refraning from penetration, but not sharing our bodies at all until we're husband and wife.

I have a question for you or anyone else who has decided to abstain from everything.... Why do you do it or what's the purpose? What's the benefit from abstaining from everything?

Those are honest questions. I've never known anyone who's done this, so I'm curious about the motivation.

 

[sxylegs]

Re: Re: Clarification

I have a question for you or anyone else who has decided to abstain from everything.... Why do you do it or what's the purpose? What's the benefit from abstaining from everything?

Those are honest questions. I've never known anyone who's done this, so I'm curious about the motivation.

And I hate to throw a note of reality into this equation, but everybody that I have known that abstains.....the guy is getting it somewhere else........why is it that you waited so long to get engaged and now you are waiting so long to get married.......most that abstain and arent doing it with others are real quick to get married

now I did say most ----not all

 

[BTK51]

I don’t think having sex or not having sex before marriage is any indication as to what can or will happen after marriage. Communication is a bigger indicator and the key is to continue that communication afterwards. People change – we all do. My wife and I are very different sexually than we were when we dated. The fact that we had sex before the marriage was no tip-off to what it would be like down the road. Our sex drive and creativity has ebbed and flowed all along the way. Living together for the 5 years may give you an indication of what the next few weeks will be like but doesn’t give you the knowledge of what’s beyond the horizon.

It has always been an important part of our relationship and as such, when one was bothered by something or wanted (or didn’t want) something, the other listened – eventually (lol). By the way Zerplex & EternalStudent, IMO you’re having sex.

If you both agree and choose to refrain from PIV sex then I say stick to it. You have your reasons and it may or may not be judged worth it (by you) after the wedding. I personally don’t think it will make one bit of difference and I don’t think having sex will give you any accurate indication of the future that good verbal communication can’t.

We have very good friends that “saved” themselves for marriage. I don’t think they did much more than kissing and a little feeling up. They appear to have very healthy sex lives and laugh at themselves for waiting. Our group of friends all knew it at the time (33 years ago) and we respected their decision. They have us rolling when they talk about it after the fact. Her comment is “just why the hell did we wait?” Believe it or not, I can see the value in waiting because it does promote communication. It probably does give you a better understanding of what you’ll have in common when that lust diminishes. If it’s important to both of you to wait for PIV sex or any other sex, then I say stay the course. You’re doing it for yourselves. Doesn’t matter what I or Bobmi or anyone else thinks about your sanity.

As to how to do it, I don’t have a clue because I was never in that situation. The only suggestion I have is to not get started. But I’m against that because I think affection is critical to a relationship and once you get started, you know that it will lead at some point to frustration. How far along the way you put on the brakes will determine the level of frustration. Only the two of you can pick the acceptable point.

The reason that I doubt my suggestion is worthwhile is that I do see a danger in not being affectionate. Especially if one or both of your crave it. It can lead to doubts and feelings of isolation. If you choose this route just make sure that you both communicate constantly on the subject. Suppressing your sexuality instead of controlling or channeling it, can have very dangerous consequences in a relationship.

 

[BTK51]

Re: Re: Clarification

I've known several. Three where it was just the woman. They said that they did it for the exclusivity of sharing this with their only true love and the psychological fact that this is something that they will have only shared with their spouse. Others did it for religious reason and most were married very young. Strangely, (at least to me) they all appear to have very mutually-satisfying sex lives and all but one are still together after 20+ years. None have had an affair that I know about. Two couples don't have much of a sex life anymore but they both are compatible in that respect.

Of the ones that I’ve had discussions with on the subject, only one couple (meaning both felt the same way) is convinced that it was the right decision in hindsight. Many of the others felt that it was pointless but there appears to be no regrets either.