Slurs you weren't aware were slurs

[ColtonWrites]

Let's get back to talking about something we can all agree on: sex is great.

So it is!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

THats completely different from doubling down.

Exactly, if I know you from more official correspondence and your name is William, and I call you William when we first meet.
You say, "I prefer Bill."
I don't need to apologize to you, because (as was discussed at the very start of this) there was no INTENT to offend. I'll just call you Bill going forward.
Bill wouldn't expect an apology, or think he was owed one.
So, what's the difference?

 

[ColtonWrites]

If you misgender someone by accident it's fine not to apologize and just move on correctly.
If you accidentally use a slur and someone calls you on it, it's probably a good idea to apologize.
That's all I'm saying.

 

[Britva415]

Exactly, if I know you from more official correspondence and your name is William, and I call you William when we first meet.
You say, "I prefer Bill."
I don't need to apologize to you, because (as was discussed at the very start of this) there was no INTENT to offend. I'll just call you Bill going forward.
Bill wouldn't expect an apology, or think he was owed one.
So, what's the difference?

It's not that there's a difference, it's that you reacted to a message on the subject of discerning intent by pretending there are only two extreme reactions possible and anything other than one of them was the other extreme.

Then you went on to demonstrate a scenario in which intent was clearly harmless, and continue to pretend that anyone anywhere ever was saying "why, yes, that IS unforgivable."

You set up an indefensible strawman, and then pretended like someone's attacking you for having a defensible one. You moved the goalposts.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It's not that there's a difference, it's that you reacted to a message on the subject of discerning intent by pretending there are only two extreme reactions possible and anything other than one of them was the other extreme.

Then you went on to demonstrate a scenario in which intent was clearly harmless, and continue to pretend that anyone anywhere ever was saying "why, yes, that IS unforgivable."

You set up an indefensible strawman, and then pretended like someone's attacking you for having a defensible one. You moved the goalposts.

Nonsense, but thanks for playing.

 

[THBGato]

When did 'troll' become a slur? Was it pre-internet?

 

[YmaOHyd]

When did 'troll' become a slur? Was it pre-internet?

Actually kind of an interesting etymology. In the original sense, it was a verb, a corrupted form of trawling. On the early internet of the late 1980s and early 1990s, it was used to describe the kind of behavior that group regulars would do to expose newbies: posting tired or sarcastic threads and letting the new users respond to them genuinely. By the early 1990s in most groups, that sort of 'trolling' for newbies was recognized as bad behavior and started to be banned. By the mid-late 1990s, it had morphed into a noun to describe someone who engages in deliberately provocative behavior.

 

[Dodola]

Right, but a thing these days is how the left and mainstream media make fun of the right. Foxworthy is making fun of people who some think are stereotypical right targets of this humor. I'm not sure the complaint is as true these days as it was when Johnny Carson routinely made jokes about "hillbillies."

Yeah, I suppose.

It just may be that simple.

Not trying to re-stir the political pot, but I think you got confused.
You made this comment, but then a few moments later, stated that this isn't what you said at all.
I was defending your viewpoint, then you challenged me to give examples, after you abandoned your original opinion.
I think we agree that making fun of groups that we don't belong to, is not a good idea.

 

[cw5523729]

This is getting a little hard to follow. I don't think Foxworthy is being political. I didn't look at him as "poking fun at right wingers." I viewed him as poking fun at a group that outsiders should not poke fun at, as you pointed out. So I was just wondering if it was OK for an outsider like me to laugh at his jokes. I never equated "red necks" with "right wingers."

I get your point now. While you might be right, that applies to virtually every stand up comic ever. And most are much worse than Jeff.

Hi, I'm black and here are jokes about black people

Hi, I'm Jewish and here are jokes about Jewish people

Hi, I'm gay and here are jokes about gay people

If you object to that, you'd have to stick to, I dunno, Jim Gaffigan maybe.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Actually kind of an interesting etymology. In the original sense, it was a verb, a corrupted form of trawling. On the early internet of the late 1980s and early 1990s, it was used to describe the kind of behavior that group regulars would do to expose newbies: posting tired or sarcastic threads and letting the new users respond to them genuinely. By the early 1990s in most groups, that sort of 'trolling' for newbies was recognized as bad behavior and started to be banned. By the mid-late 1990s, it had morphed into a noun to describe someone who engages in deliberately provocative behavior.

Interestingly, it then morphed again in the 2000s to mean, "someone saying things I don't like".

It kind of follows the arc of terms like "transphobe" in that respect. It really doesn't mean anything anymore, it's just a catchall to try to insult someone who is disagreeing with you.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Why is it OK (is it OK?) for me to laugh and Foxworthy's jokes when I'm not part of his "family?"

He's inviting you to do so, so laugh away.

 

[cw5523729]

I feel like the TV show In Living Color would have made some people's heads explode

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I feel like the TV show In Living Color would have made some people's heads explode

It's amazing that there was a time in the not so distant past when everyone could just laugh at each other without getting offended.

 

[cw5523729]

It's amazing that there was a time in the not so distant past when everyone could just laugh at each other without getting offended.

I'm offended by your lack of offense at this offensive discussion.

 

[cw5523729]

He's inviting you to do so, so laugh away.

And he made a very, very good living off of it.

 

[crookedletter]

How is complaining about other people taking offense at things that don't offend you any less obnoxious than other people taking offense at things that don't offend you?

(Spoiler: it's not)

 

[MillieDynamite]

"You people" is a fight starter whether black says it whites or vise versa.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

How is complaining about other people taking offense at things that don't offend you any less obnoxious than other people taking offense at things that don't offend you?

(Spoiler: it's not)

Because they aren't demanding apologies, or trying to get people fired.
Unlike the supplicants at Our Lady of the Perpetually Offended...

 

[Kelliezgirl]

"You people" is a fight starter whether black says it whites or vise versa.

 

[AG31]

Coz the rims of the hats are turned up - they can sit next to each other, side by side.

Yeah, that I got. I just don't understand what it has to do with this thread. Is it a slur against some group?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Queer is a tricky one because a lot of younger LGBT people like it because it's an inclusive word that doesn't force you to be totally precise about the details of someone's sexuality or gender. But older people often react instinctively in horror because it was the insult of choice used by guys looking to beat up anyone gay/effeminate/looking like they needed their face rearranged. I'm 50 and on the cusp of the change.

I don't know if queer as an insult and implying violence was used so much in America, where the word faggot seemed more popular - here, fags are cigarettes and faggots are loose-textured meatballs or bundles of sticks - but I know guys who have nightmares about hearing "you fucking queer".

It's actually a good way of telling if a word has become a slur - is it most often said in the phrase 'you fucking xxxx'?

Though for some reason, the words spaz and spastic, used to mean pathetic or crap and thus equating spastic people with that idea, are still in common use in the US even though every other disablist term is frowned on.

The UK Epilepsy Society have made it known they have no problem with the word 'brainstorm'.

 

[SimonDoom]

There's no such things as a "universal slur." Words have no intrinsic meaning. They have whatever meaning people choose to give them, and whether they are used offensively depends entirely on context.

I personally think that an enlightened, sophisticated society is one in which people appreciate multiple meanings and a sense of humor and don't look for ways to get offended by things. But words can still be offensive depending upon the context in which they are used and the intent behind how they are used.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

There was a big campaign against the word 'mong' or 'Mongol' for people with Down Syndrome about 40 years ago, to the point it pretty much died out. Then kids started using the word mong to insult each other again. Turned out they assumed it was short for mongrel and were using it to call someone mixed race, in particular when the kid didn't know one of their parents.

And now you get the youth saying 'mong out', and I believe them when they think there's no connection to Down syndrome, but when they do jaw-drop and tongue-lolling action to show what they mean, it looks damn like 'window-lickers', Joeys, 'special' kids and every other disablist slur out there.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I don't know if queer as an insult and implying violence was used so much in America, where the word faggot seemed more popular - here, fags are cigarettes and faggots are loose-textured meatballs or bundles of sticks - but I know guys who have nightmares about hearing "you fucking queer".

'Queer' was definitely used as an insult in the US. In one of the more famous moments in live television history, during ABC's coverage of the 1968 Democratic National Convention, Gore Vidal called Bill Buckley a Nazi; Buckley retorted that Vidal was "a goddamn queer" and threatened to punch him in the face. Vidal later accused Buckley of being a closeted homosexual and committing acts of anti-semitic vandalism, and paid settlements in two separate libel cases as a result.

It's actually a good way of telling if a word has become a slur - is it most often said in the phrase 'you fucking xxxx'?

Yep.

Though for some reason, the words spaz and spastic, used to mean pathetic or crap and thus equating spastic people with that idea, are still in common use in the US even though every other disablist term is frowned on.

That's interesting, because while I heard 'spaz' as a kid I don't think I've ever heard a non-British person use 'spastic' as an insult, and haven't heard either recently.

There was a big campaign against the word 'mong' or 'Mongol' for people with Down Syndrome about 40 years ago, to the point it pretty much died out. Then kids started using the word mong to insult each other again. Turned out they assumed it was short for mongrel and were using it to call someone mixed race, in particular when the kid didn't know one of their parents.

And now you get the youth saying 'mong out', and I believe them when they think there's no connection to Down syndrome, but when they do jaw-drop and tongue-lolling action to show what they mean, it looks damn like 'window-lickers', Joeys, 'special' kids and every other disablist slur out there.

You hear 'mongoloid' now too, unfortunately, and I'm pretty sure it's specifically intended to invoke Down's and other disabilities. F1 world champion Max Verstappen had to apologize after calling a driver who collided with him a mongol in 2020.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It's amazing that there was a time in the not so distant past when everyone could just laugh at each other without getting offended.

When was that, then?

Plenty of people in my lifetime had to laugh at jokes about themselves if they wanted to keep their jobs. Didn't mean they weren't offended.