Slurs you weren't aware were slurs

[Five_Inch_Heels]

There's no such things as a "universal slur." Words have no intrinsic meaning. They have whatever meaning people choose to give them, and whether they are used offensively depends entirely on context.

Is there a positive, non-derogatory use for the K slur for Jewish people?

 

[YmaOHyd]

Is there a positive, non-derogatory use for the K slur for Jewish people?

Don't think so, especially since it's an invented word specifically used by non-Jews to refer to people of Jewish ancestry. Contrast that with yid, which is also an anti-Jewish slur but originally was used by Jews to refer to themselves.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That's interesting, because while I heard 'spaz' as a kid I don't think I've ever heard a non-British person use 'spastic' as an insult, and haven't heard either recently.

Since I escaped the clutches of PE teachers, I've rarely heard it, and not had it used at me this century - I know that because in late 1999 I was given the perfect response to being called a fucking spaz: "No, love, this is a spaz on her way home. Fucking is what I'll do later tonight." Never had the opportunity to use it, because disability awareness suddenly at least vaguely existed.

Only heard spaz and spastic from Americans in the last couple decades, usually teenage girls being self-deprecating, using it just like 'gay' was for many years. I wince every time.

There was an American model of wheelchair launched called a Spazz, and after some months they wondered why it wasn't selling in Europe. They had no idea it looked as bad as having Retard painted on the side...

 

[crookedletter]

Is there a positive, non-derogatory use for the K slur for Jewish people?

Whether or not there is, it's conceivable that there could be, right? As with other examples where a group "takes back" a term to take -- or attempt to take -- the teeth out of it. The N word has a far different connotation depending who is using it, and in what context.

 

[AG31]

Queer is a tricky one because a lot of younger LGBT people like it because it's an inclusive word that doesn't force you to be totally precise about the details of someone's sexuality or gender. But older people often react instinctively in horror because it was the insult of choice used by guys looking to beat up anyone gay/effeminate/looking like they needed their face rearranged. I'm 50 and on the cusp of the change.

I don't know if queer as an insult and implying violence was used so much in America, where the word faggot seemed more popular - here, fags are cigarettes and faggots are loose-textured meatballs or bundles of sticks - but I know guys who have nightmares about hearing "you fucking queer".

It's actually a good way of telling if a word has become a slur - is it most often said in the phrase 'you fucking xxxx'?

Though for some reason, the words spaz and spastic, used to mean pathetic or crap and thus equating spastic people with that idea, are still in common use in the US even though every other disablist term is frowned on.

The UK Epilepsy Society have made it known they have no problem with the word 'brainstorm'.

As an older American, I just can't get comfortable with the use of "queer." I hear it frequently at church, obviously (or not???) in its most positive version. Not only does it hearken back to a time when it was definitely not positive, but for me it has an in-your-face quality. Not meant by some, but definitely meant by others, I'm sure.

 

[AG31]

There was an American model of wheelchair launched called a Spazz, and after some months they wondered why it wasn't selling in Europe. They had no idea it looked as bad as having Retard painted on the side...

I can't believe they didn't know what they were doing. I'm American, and "spaz" has been derogatory for decades. I think the wheelchair people were riding the crest of a take-it-back wave and the Europeans just haven't caught on yet.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Don't think so, especially since it's an invented word specifically used by non-Jews to refer to people of Jewish ancestry. Contrast that with yid, which is also an anti-Jewish slur but originally was used by Jews to refer to themselves.

Yid is used by and about fans/the football team Tottenham Hotspur (called Spurs in print but always To'num in speech). They're based in North London and have always had many Jewish fans. The club did a consultation on whether use of chants like 'We're the Yids' etc were offensive, and conclusion was that the word was OK in a footballing context but not elsewhere, even according to most Jewish fans.

Other teams fans would use yids as a slur, not because their targets were Jewish but because they were 'fucking Tottenham'.

Lots of ethnic slurs in particular are specific to particular locations - I remember reading a bunch of Arthur Hailey books years ago and being very confused as to who was meant when they talked about spics and kikes, and guessed they were terms for black people, given the context. Not today we don't have racism in the UK, just the groups and the people who get their own words are different. Just look on any thread discussing Travellers or Roma, and pikey and dag-lover will be tame compared to most of the abuse that comes out...

 

[Kelliezgirl]

When was that, then?

Plenty of people in my lifetime had to laugh at jokes about themselves if they wanted to keep their jobs. Didn't mean they weren't offended.

So, if you laugh at jokes about yourself you are offended?
All the rednecks laughing at Jeff Foxworthy jokes are secretly offended?

Perhaps I should have said, "when we could laugh at ourselves" and not be so offended.
George Jefferson was on TV in the 70s making fun of white people and they laughed about it. Comedians like Richard Pryor trashed EVERYONE and people laughed.

 

[Dodola]

Fwiw, one of the MCs in the American comedy movie Meatballs, was named 'Spaz'.
It's still a popular movie today and hasn't faced any retroactive boycotts or outrage that I know of.
I don't think that term was universally thought of as a slur against mental health or disabilities until much more recently.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Fwiw, one of the MCs in the American comedy movie Meatballs, was named 'Spaz'.
It's still a popular movie today and hasn't faced any retroactive boycotts or outrage that I know of.
I don't think that term was universally thought of as a slur against mental health until much more recently.

Great point, if you have to explain "what they are actually referring to is..." then perhaps you've gone too far.

I've never associated spaz with a disability.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Yid is used by and about fans/the football team Tottenham Hotspur (called Spurs in print but always To'num in speech). They're based in North London and have always had many Jewish fans. The club did a consultation on whether use of chants like 'We're the Yids' etc were offensive, and conclusion was that the word was OK in a footballing context but not elsewhere, even according to most Jewish fans.

Other teams fans would use yids as a slur, not because their targets were Jewish but because they were 'fucking Tottenham'.

The football usage of yid originates in its use as an anti-Jewish slur. Tottenham has Jewish fans, the fans are slurred because sports team fans hate other sports team fans (hell, fans of clubs in Turin are called gobbi, hunchbacks, because some of them used to work in factories), and the fans turn the slur into a mark of pride, calling themselves the Yid Army.

Lots of ethnic slurs in particular are specific to particular locations - I remember reading a bunch of Arthur Hailey books years ago and being very confused as to who was meant when they talked about spics and kikes, and guessed they were terms for black people, given the context. Not today we don't have racism in the UK, just the groups and the people who get their own words are different. Just look on any thread discussing Travellers or Roma, and pikey and dag-lover will be tame compared to most of the abuse that comes out...

Yeah -- there's a whole bunch of terms for Irish, Italian and Greek immigrants in the US that are specific to us because of the waves of migration from those countries. Wop is one historically used for Italians that's said to have derived from without papers, referring to immigration status. It actually comes from guappo, describing a sort of flashy but worthless man.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Travellers or

Now THAT gets into a whole 'nother ball-o-cactus-embedded-wax.

There is a town in the US where they are so prominent, they all but control it to the extent they can impede Federal investigations into their practices.

And I don't mean Clearwater, FL. That's a different bunch tied to 'Ron'.

 

[cw5523729]

George Jefferson was on TV in the 70s making fun of white people and they laughed about it. Comedians like Richard Pryor trashed EVERYONE and people laughed.

Ok, Boomer

 

[Writer61]

but always To'num in speech

Not always. I call them Spurs or Spuds.

 

[AG31]

I don't think that term was universally thought of as a slur against mental health or disabilities until much more recently.

I agree.

If owning a derogatory term is called "taking it back" (the claiming of "black" or "queer" as a good thing, for instance), then what is it called when a commonly used term, not meant to disparage anyone (e.g., "spastic"), is labeled derogatory?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, that I got. I just don't understand what it has to do with this thread. Is it a slur against some group?

Rednecks and cowboys.

 

[AG31]

Rednecks and cowboys.

OK. I figured it must be. But it seems like a pretty weak slur.

 

[ElectricBlue]

OK. I figured it must be. But it seems like a pretty weak slur.

Well yes, it was. Lighthearted, by intent. Ironically, heard from a Texan.

 

[SimonDoom]

Is there a positive, non-derogatory use for the K slur for Jewish people?

I can't think of one, but it's a matter of context. A generation from now the term might mean something different. This is true of all words.

 

[Writer61]

I agree.

If owning a derogatory term is called "taking it back" (the claiming of "black" or "queer" as a good thing, for instance), then what is it called when a commonly used term, not meant to disparage anyone (e.g., "spastic"), is labeled derogatory?

I think you are seeing it too narrowly. By using a term, e.g. spastic, to describe somebody who isn't, demeans those whom it legitimately applies.

 

[ColtonWrites]

I vaguely recall an episode of Seventh Heaven where they discussed one of the kid's friends being called a spazz. That was the 90s.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I can't think of one, but it's a matter of context. A generation from now the term might mean something different. This is true of all words.

I had a college professor who was black tell us one day that he wished they'd never gotten away from using colored. He felt it was more expressive and descriptive, since there are a variety of skin tones.
And he was an OLD guy who understood the history of the word.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

But again, it was the WAY it was used.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

But again, it was the WAY it was used.

Context matters, but we've lost sight of that so you get cases like this:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...emory-wrong-suspend-law-professor-who-used-it

 

[ColtonWrites]

But again, it was the WAY it was used.

I mean, yeah. As an insult. Which implies that being spastic is a bad thing. Like why "gay" isn't a bad word on its own, but using it as an insult makes it a slur. Thats true for any word.