Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in your country?

[Xandri Fowke]

Well here in Aussie we have a Bodies in Barrels case.

Two guys were jailed for life after torturing, mudering, & dismembering over 11 people and stashing the bodies in barrels to rot.

All to steal their social security checks...

 

[cantdog]

I love the Süß unterwürfig! That is so screwed up! Made me laugh every time I read it.

Did you Babelfish or take a German course?

 

[fifty5]

Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in your country?

Dr Crippen still lingers on. Famous as the first case where radio was used to get an arrest (De Nieve's derriere just didn't fit with the boy she was pretending to be, so they radio'd for more info), the 'doctor' was a quack who didn't know his chemistry. He buried his dismembered wife in quick-lime to destroy the evidence, but as he did so, he carefully slaked the lime with water, converting the caustic into a preservative...

Oh yeah (on a rather different level) Bradford Metropolitan Council has just proudly published a Zero Tolerance policy on littering in their news-sheet - so far, so good - but then go on to equate dropping a cigarette end out of a car window with tipping tonnes of building waste on waste ground: both potentially lead up to a £2,500 fine!

I find that pretty bizarre.

Eff

 

[cantdog]

Xandri Fowke:
Well here in Aussie we have a Bodies in Barrels case.

Two guys were jailed for life after torturing, murdering, & dismembering over 11 people and stashing the bodies in barrels to rot.

All to steal their social security checks...

I heard about that one a little. Sort of semi-wise, preying on a vulnerable and often isolated population. As though they'd put their whole minds to it.

Torturing. Shuddersome, squalid and sad.

 

[cantdog]

Re: Re: Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in your countr

Dr Crippen still lingers on. Famous as the first case where radio was used to get an arrest (De Nieve's derriere just didn't fit with the boy she was pretending to be, so they radio'd for more info), the 'doctor' was a quack who didn't know his chemistry. He buried his dismembered wife in quick-lime to destroy the evidence, but as he did so, he carefully slaked the lime with water, converting the caustic into a preservative...

Oh yeah (on a rather different level) Bradford Metropolitan Council has just proudly published a Zero Tolerance policy on littering in their news-sheet - so far, so good - but then go on to equate dropping a cigarette end out of a car window with tipping tonnes of building waste on waste ground: both potentially lead up to a £2,500 fine!

I find that pretty bizarre.

Eff

Zero tolerance is just political code for, "Let's just forego any judgement on this subject. We'll make it a no-thinkie sort of prosecution." They used to call it "cracking down." Meant the same thing. Sounds stern and strict, but it usually amounts to a complete commitment to absurdity. The big fines will make them money and the tough talk will gain them votes from the irreflective.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Re: Re: Re: Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in your countr

Zero tolerance is just political code for, "Let's just forego any judgement on this subject. We'll make it a no-thinkie sort of prosecution." They used to call it "cracking down." Meant the same thing. Sounds stern and strict, but it usually amounts to a complete commitment to absurdity. The big fines will make them money and the tough talk will gain them votes from the irreflective.

I have heard "zero tolerance" defined in other terms. The criminal justice professor explaining the concept said that the original idea was not "intolerantly severe punishments," but "no crimes too small to be punished." The punishments didn't have to be severe at all; they just had to be consistant.

The idea, as I grasped it, was not be to draconian, but to establish a sense that there were rules to be adhered to and that they were enforced fairly and consistantly. In theory it teaches people to moderate their behavior while they are still on little stuff like vandalism. I think the basic idea was that having crimes that receive no punishment just teaches people to scorn the law and try something more daring.

 

[fifty5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in you

I have heard "zero tolerance" defined in other terms. The criminal justice professor explaining the concept said that the original idea was not "intolerantly severe punishments," but "no crimes too small to be punished." The punishments didn't have to be severe at all; they just had to be consistant.

The idea, as I grasped it, was not be to draconian, but to establish a sense that there were rules to be adhered to and that they were enforced fairly and consistantly. In theory it teaches people to moderate their behavior while they are still on little stuff like vandalism. I think the basic idea was that having crimes that receive no punishment just teaches people to scorn the law and try something more daring.

That sounds very reasonable - and it could be - but I'm not sure I'm convinced that it will be in the event.

Or maybe, while I'm incensed by the number of crisp bags and so on that end up in my garden, I do still flick tab-ends out of the car window - and even into the bushes in my own garden - so I'm biassed.

Nevertheless, I do note the political correctness of the metric "tonnes" (rather than "tons") and contrast that with the reality of thousands of pounds, or kilograms, of waste versus a fag-but...

Eff (a hypocrit, but on a very small scale)

 

[cantdog]

President Clinton spoke at one of his press briefings to the effect that underage tobacco use was a number one priority and concerned the feds greatly.

There's actually been a folk song about the incident when my blind friend Sam (a glaucoma sufferer) was rushed by a police sergeant, made to spreadeagle on the ground, and got yelled at to Freeze! with a barrage of name calling. He had a hard time figuring out what the fuss was, who they meant, and whatnot, but eventually he lay on his belly as they hollered at him to do (the sergeant's partner got out of the police car, too. They pulled out clubs but not guns.) He was handcuffed and arrested. He had to make bail on a charge of criminal threatening.

The discovery had a deposition from the sergeant, whose name I gve in full for all the world to see, since assholes deserve the light-- Ron Gastia-- to the effect that the perpetrator (meaning Sam) had raised his stick in a threatening manner. Gastia was in his car, of course, and the stick was a white rod with a red tip on it.

Sam got a lawyer famous for his ability to drip sarcasm in court and destroy prosecution stuffed shirt witnesses. This lawyer refused the plea-bargain offers, saying he was going to positively relish taking this one to court.

The prosecution, who now knew that Sam was almost completely blind, dismissed the case.

But Sam was going to pay. They had a bit of a resentment. He was walking with a friend's sister and her boyfriend about a month later. She had to tie a shoe, and told Sam, "Here. Hold this, wouldja?"

She handed Sam the cigarette, lit and burning, and tied her shoe. When she got it back from him, cops appeared and arrested Sam for providing tobacco to a minor. They had the whole thing on video tape, the cops said smugly.

Video tape! Yep, there was a cop in the bushes there, with a video camera.

Sam paid a $200 fine for providing, plus a 10% court costs fee: $220, please remit to the clerk.

Zero tolerance.

 

[Guest]

I love the Süß unterwürfig! That is so screwed up! Made me laugh every time I read it.

Did you Babelfish or take a German course?

Ich spreche Deutsch.

(Err, sort of.)

Actually, I had to look up the word for "submissive" because I knew the word for "sub" wouldn't work.

(It's U-boat.)

 

[cantdog]

I loved it! Actually, I cheated on "dog" as well. The meaning of "dog" in "cantdog" is the one about fastening. "He dogged down the hatch." A cantdog is a tool featuring a curved spike on a hinge-- a dog-- used to grab a log and turn it.

But I was too lazy to look up that particular meaning of "dog," so I settled for "Hund."

And I used to teach German! I should be ashamed of myself.

Did you recognize "sleepwalking"-- Nachtwandlung? I did, but it took a minute or two. It's been some time since I used any German.

 

[Guest]

I loved it! Actually, I cheated on "dog" as well. The meaning of "dog" in "cantdog" is the one about fastening. "He dogged down the hatch." A cantdog is a tool featuring a curved spike on a hinge-- a dog-- used to grab a log and turn it.

But I was too lazy to look up that particular meaning of "dog," so I settled for "Hund."

And I used to teach German! I should be ashamed of myself.

Did you recognize "sleepwalking"-- Nachtwandlung? I did, but it took a minute or two. It's been some time since I used any German.

I didn't.

Just figured it was something naughty that happened at night.

 

[cantdog]

Maybe we should get a room or something, and leave these nice folks their thread.

 

[Guest]

Maybe we should get a room or something, and leave these nice folks their thread.

"And now it's back to our cheerful thead discussion of death!"



Actually, I'm off to bed. Guten Abend, cant. Süße Träume.

 

[cantdog]

 

[Boxlicker101]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in your countr

I have heard "zero tolerance" defined in other terms. The criminal justice professor explaining the concept said that the original idea was not "intolerantly severe punishments," but "no crimes too small to be punished." The punishments didn't have to be severe at all; they just had to be consistant.

The idea, as I grasped it, was not be to draconian, but to establish a sense that there were rules to be adhered to and that they were enforced fairly and consistantly. In theory it teaches people to moderate their behavior while they are still on little stuff like vandalism. I think the basic idea was that having crimes that receive no punishment just teaches people to scorn the law and try something more daring.

That may have been so at one time but a fine of 2,500 pounds for littering sounds pretty draconian to me.

 

[Seattle Zack]

The guy that they recently caught up here, Gary Ridgeway, who killed 40-60 prostitutes is pretty sickening.

He confessed to almost everything (read the transcripts at the Smoking Gun) http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ridgway1.html?sect=4

There is even more, transcripts of the interrogation sessions with the detectives and such. What a whacko. Killed one girl with his eight-year old son in the truck. We sure know how to grow 'em up here in the Northwest. Bundy only killed twelve or so.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The guy that they recently caught up here, Gary Ridgeway, who killed 40-60 prostitutes is pretty sickening.

He confessed to almost everything (read the transcripts at the Smoking Gun) http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ridgway1.html?sect=4

There is even more, transcripts of the interrogation sessions with the detectives and such. What a whacko. Killed one girl with his eight-year old son in the truck. We sure know how to grow 'em up here in the Northwest. Bundy only killed twelve or so.

Ted Bundy killed at least thirty women but it was in diverse parts of the country. He was convicted of murders in Florida and put to death there, and good riddance. The reason Ridgeway was able to get away with it for so long is that his victims were prostitutes and the police and many others didn't care what happened to them. Besides that, the victims were rather transient and they weren't always missed.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in your countr

That may have been so at one time but a fine of 2,500 pounds for littering sounds pretty draconian to me.

Actually my point was not that the fine wasn't draconian. I agree that they need to differentiate a ciggy end from a thousand pounds of industrial waste. My point was that "zero tolerance" was misuse of the original intent of the term in this case.

Of course, Cantdog, I think what happened to your friend sucked. But again - really nothing to do with the idea of "zero tolerance" policing, at least as I understand the theory. That's just assholes being vindictive, which can happen in pretty much any circumstances.

 

[cantdog]

Yeah. But the context was a zero tolerance policy on tobacco to minors. They had without doubt followed Sam around for weeks with a video camera in order to catch him doing something. The pounce happened when it did because of Clinton's dictum about underage smoking.

There is probably always some damn thing which carries extra weight because of the politics of the moment.

For cops, it's a wondrous thing when public policy is able to provide a magnified and inflated set of infractions to hit their enemies with. That's the major effect of crackdowns and zero tolerance policies, because humans are opportunistic and flawed, and because many cops are petty criminals.

I felt bad for Sam. He was altogether innocent and they hounded him. On video tape! From the bushes! Think about it! How long did they follow the blind guy around? Jesus. they just couldn't stand to see him free and happy.

 

[fifty5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of murderers, what bizarre criminal trials are famous in

That may have been so at one time but a fine of 2,500 pounds for littering sounds pretty draconian to me.

To be truthful (for a change) the £2500 is step 2. Step 1 is a £50 fine, but refusal to pay opens the doors to the £2500 and a criminal record.

That still doesn't discriminate between a fag-end and tons of rubble - which was my point (together with Bfd MDC's pride in that).

The article (in the City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council's 'Community Pride' newspaper) also invites all readers to "Dob in a Dumper" and brags about the "successful prosecution of a motorist who refused to pay a fixed penalty fine for throwing a cigarette end out of his car" followed, with no suggestion that this was a different order of offense, by the case of, "dumping bags of waste sand rather than taking it to a tip."

OK I'm a smoker - and yeah, I do scatter tab ends around - but it's crisp packets and fast-food containers that do annoy me, whether blown (or thrown) into my garden or around the local park.

Whatever the original intent of "zero tolerance" might be, in the cases I've seen reported, it's always seemed to me to be flouting common sense, no matter what the issue.

Eff

 

[doormouse]

I can't think of the killer's names...

but the Hoddle Street shooting... I think... 16 were gunned down (wishful? do you know?)

and the Port Arthur Massacre where some sick bastard went crazy and killed (I think 17).

Pretty gruesome topic lol

 

[doormouse]

Well here in Aussie we have a Bodies in Barrels case.

Two guys were jailed for life after torturing, mudering, & dismembering over 11 people and stashing the bodies in barrels to rot.

All to steal their social security checks...

OMG!!!!!

I remember this one!!!! That was years ago!!!!

Sick fuckers

 

[doormouse]

Anyone remember the case of the rape victim who was left for dead... the guy cut her nipples off with scissors?

It was a few years back. I never heard if they caught the guy.

She had to crawl through barbed wire fences to get help... about all I remember of the case.

And on Oprah once there was a girl (about 11) who had her throat cut. She pretended to be dead after he'd killed her friend. God that girl is in my prayers so often. She lived to identify the bastard in court. There are some really sick bastards out there.

 

[fifty5]

Sorry.

Littering and rape/murder/mutilation don't go together!

Eff

 

[Just-Legal]

Sorry.

Littering and rape/murder/mutilation don't go together!

Eff

*sneaks in*

*threadjacks*

*huggles F5*

*unthreadjacks*

*sneaks back out again*