Splitting dialogue

[Writer61]

Thus it is of no surprise that they are flummoxed by the composition of a conversation.

Hence my decision to prioritise clarity.

 

[WittyUserName]

On my recently published story, Casual Wednesday, I received this comment:

I liked the story, but had a little trouble reading it. In a conversation, a change of paragraph generally indicates a change in person talking. Several times, I had to stop and reread in order to get enough context to determine which lady was speaking. It disturbed the flow of enjoying the story.

On checking the text, I realised the person was referring to breaks in dialogue where, although it was the same person speaking, I had started a new paragraph to indicate a pause. I was taught to indicate this by not closing the preceding paragraph with a double quote, which is what I had done. I posted a comment pointing this out.

This morning, I had another comment:

I wonder how many people (at least younger ones) are unaware of the convention about a paragraph with a missing " at the end.

How common is such ignorance? Did you know this convention? Do you avoid splitting dialogue to avoid this?

I try to avoid having a person say a lot at once, since that's generally not how conversations go. However, sometimes it does happen if they're telling a long story or explaining something. In that case, yes, I will use a new paragraph and leave the end parenthesis missing at the end. I've never had trouble understanding when reading it. I think you're fine. That's one person's comment. If you got a bunch like that, then I might consider changing things up.

 

[WittyUserName]

Ignorance in general being quite common it's safe to say that this aspect of ignorance is likewise quite common.

Especially with the under 40 set, lots of them are functionally illiterate.

Simple math isn't so simple for them.

Most of them literally have no idea where they are at any given time. They've ceded their senses of place and direction to the GPS in their car and on their phone.

Their language and vocabulary skills are abominable.

Thus it is of no surprise that they are flummoxed by the composition of a conversation.

Ignorance is pretty common, sure. Although as an under 40, I was quite aware of this rule. We still took English class in school, thank you.

 

[Britva415]

You don't even need an English class to learn this. All you have to do is read.

 

[SimonDoom]

You don't even need an English class to learn this. All you have to do is read.

I think this is the problem in a nutshell. Many people don't read much, and when they do they read stuff that isn't very good. So, they never learn what good writing is.

 

[Britva415]

I think this is the problem in a nutshell. Many people don't read much, and when they do they read stuff that isn't very good. So, they never learn what good writing is.

Or even the standard conventions.

It's really hard to make good writing without the standard conventions, but using standard conventions doesn't necessarily make writing good.

I'm sure there's some author somewhere who believes "well, see, then what does it even matter, imma do what I want" but I would just laugh behind my hand at such an attitude... and then close their story.

 

[SimonDoom]

Or even the standard conventions.

It's really hard to make good writing without the standard conventions, but using standard conventions doesn't necessarily make writing good.

I'm sure there's some author somewhere who believes "well, see, then what does it even matter, imma do what I want" but I would just laugh behind my hand at such an attitude... and then close their story.

I'm the same way. I lose interest quickly with stories that exhibit the "imma do what I want" attitude. Writing is communication, which means to do it well requires some degree of respect for the reader, and if you don't take the time to learn the basic conventions it means you don't give a damn about your readers.

Writing is a craft like anything else, and if you want to do it well you have to take the time to learn it. Read. Write. Study. Some authors chafe at that and have the attitude "I'm just gonna do my thing" and in my opinion almost none of them are good authors or worth reading.

 

[Britva415]

I lose interest quickly with stories that exhibit the "imma do what I want" attitude

It's usually difficult to tell it apart from the "I dunno what I'm doing at all" scenario.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's usually difficult to tell it apart from the "I dunno what I'm doing at all" scenario.

I think that's the reality 90+ % of the time. And some people don't want to face that.

 

[SparkleFur]

I think that's the reality 90+ % of the time. And some people don't want to face that.

You need to learn the rules before you can break them effectively.

 

[SparkleFur]

You need to learn the rules before you can break them effectively.

...she said, slapping a ruler on the desk.

 

[SimonDoom]

...she said, slapping a ruler on the desk.

Or, more appropriately, slapping the ruler against her student's bare bottom.

 

[SparkleFur]

Or, more appropriately, slapping the ruler against her student's bare bottom.

Well... they have to see what's coming, don't they.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

In my head, "Slapping the Ruler" would turn out to be a story about hand-spanking a king/queen/prince/princess. Or all four, I guess.

 

[SparkleFur]

In my head, "Slapping the Ruler" would turn out to be a story about hand-spanking a king/queen/prince/princess. Or all four, I guess.

You could do Ru Paul-style slap of all four in a row. Oh, wait, wrong kind of slap. I think an anti-Royalist took over my brain briefly.

Who's doing the spanking in your scenario? The saucy leader of the revolution?

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Who's doing the spanking in your scenario? The saucy leader of the revolution?

Depends on the target, but I was thinking the irrepressible governess spanking the younger royal(s). Maybe they're spoiled, so the desperate parents bring in a stern woman who simply cannot be intimidated.

Perhaps she turns out to be fay, and also punishes the delinquent parents for neglecting this one and most important of all their royal duties?

All of them are (of course) both cowed and very, very stimulated by this. I don't write incest, but that would be one possible outcome, along with other story paths:

• Princess takes her bodyguard or handmaiden to her bed
• Prince or king is seduced by a chambermaid
• Queen is so desperate for it after her turn that she orders all the servants out of the king's chamber and just tackles him into bed and takes him, while he lies there intimidated and passive. He's a near non-entity in this version, a puppet ruler ... until this awakens his masculinity.
  • Queen spanks the king to get him hard, which works. Later, he spanks her to initiate Round Two. Still later, they tell the returning servants to prepare a cold bath. Which they share, now that they're aware of each other's desirability again.

Well, that drifted.

 

[SparkleFur]

Depends on the target, but I was thinking the irrepressible governess spanking the younger royal(s). Maybe they're spoiled, so the desperate parents bring in a stern woman who simply cannot be intimidated.

Perhaps she turns out to be fay, and also punishes the delinquent parents for neglecting this one and most important of all their royal duties?

All of them are (of course) both cowed and very, very stimulated by this. I don't write incest, but that would be one possible outcome, along with other story paths:

• Princess takes her bodyguard or handmaiden to her bed

Why not both?

• Prince or king is seduced by a chambermaid

How about a female warrior, fresh from patrol?

• Queen is so desperate for it after her turn that she orders all the servants out of the king's chamber and just tackles him into bed and takes him, while he lies there intimidated and passive. He's a near non-entity in this version, a puppet ruler ... until this awakens his masculinity.
  • Queen spanks the king to get him hard, which works. Later, he spanks her to initiate Round Two. Still later, they tell the returning servants to prepare a cold bath. Which they share, now that they're aware of each other's desirability again.

I like the cold water aspect. Not everyone appreciates that.

Well, that drifted.

Someone has to be penetrated by the scepter at some point, I think. ?

 

[Seurat]

• Queen is so desperate for it after her turn that she orders all the servants out of the king's chamber and just tackles him into bed and takes him, while he lies there intimidated and passive. He's a near non-entity in this version, a puppet ruler ... until this awakens his masculinity.

...and now I have an image of Anna Quayle as Baroness Bomburst, dressed in that black and white lingerie, stuck in my head. Man, she was the stuff of wet dreams to me in my youth. For as dedicated at she was to that idiot, you just know she was down to do anything he suggested. Spank the ruler, indeed.

 

[Seurat]

On my recently published story, Casual Wednesday, I received this comment:

I liked the story, but had a little trouble reading it. In a conversation, a change of paragraph generally indicates a change in person talking. Several times, I had to stop and reread in order to get enough context to determine which lady was speaking. It disturbed the flow of enjoying the story.

On checking the text, I realised the person was referring to breaks in dialogue where, although it was the same person speaking, I had started a new paragraph to indicate a pause. I was taught to indicate this by not closing the preceding paragraph with a double quote, which is what I had done. I posted a comment pointing this out.

This morning, I had another comment:

I wonder how many people (at least younger ones) are unaware of the convention about a paragraph with a missing " at the end.

How common is such ignorance? Did you know this convention? Do you avoid splitting dialogue to avoid this?

Circling back to the original post, I've noticed in my recent writing that I tend to write more in one of two conversational styles. The first is more common, with one person speaking while the other waits their turn. Of note, however, is the interrupted speech combined with unfinished sentences. I feel it has better flow at times. Also, while I am a traditional Oxford comma fan, I think that run-on sentences are sometimes needed to convey people's train(wreck) of thoughts.

I.e.

"I don't know... I don't know if this can be 'corrected'. I think you are too entrenched in your ways on how things are supposed to happen, that you can't let go enough to give me what I am asking for."

"What do you mean? I know I screwed up, but I let you-"

"EXACTLY!! You LET me. That's the problem, right there!"


Does this become too difficult to follow?

 

[SparkleFur]

Circling back to the original post, I've noticed in my recent writing that I tend to write more in one of two conversational styles. The first is more common, with one person speaking while the other waits their turn. Of note, however, is the interrupted speech combined with unfinished sentences. I feel it has better flow at times. Also, while I am a traditional Oxford comma fan, I think that run-on sentences are sometimes needed to convey people's train(wreck) of thoughts.

I.e.

"I don't know... I don't know if this can be 'corrected'. I think you are too entrenched in your ways on how things are supposed to happen, that you can't let go enough to give me what I am asking for."

"What do you mean? I know I screwed up, but I let you-"

"EXACTLY!! You LET me. That's the problem, right there!"


Does this become too difficult to follow?

I don't think so at all. I think it seems perfectly understandable.

 

[SparkleFur]

I don't think so at all. I think it seems perfectly understandable.

So this is the Oxford comma in action:

I have a list of things I want you to do: hold me, kiss me, take off my shirt, then kiss me again.

This is an imperfect example because I use a colon, but in essence, it's a comma before the last item in a list.

 

[SimonDoom]

So this is the Oxford comma in action:

I have a list of things I want you to do: hold me, kiss me, take off my shirt, then kiss me again.

This is an imperfect example because I use a colon, but in essence, it's a comma before the last item in a list.

This is not an example of the Oxford comma.

This is an example of the Oxford comma:

I want you to hold me, kiss me, and take off my shirt.

The non-Oxford comma alternative would be:

I want you to hold me, kiss me and take off my shirt.

In your example there's no conjunction ("and"). The word "then" is an adverb and the Oxford comma issue doesn't arise. There's no way you can do without a comma in this case.

 

[SparkleFur]

This is not an example of the Oxford comma.

This is an example of the Oxford comma:

I want you to hold me, kiss me, and take off my shirt.

The non-Oxford comma alternative would be:

I want you to hold me, kiss me and take off my shirt.

In your example there's no conjunction ("and"). The word "then" is an adverb and the Oxford comma issue doesn't arise. There's no way you can do without a comma in this case.

Right. I said then. I said it was an imperfect example. Sorry.

 

[SimonDoom]

Right. I said then. I said it was an imperfect example. Sorry.

No need to be sorry. I'm just offering my (sometimes annoyingly Grammar Nazi) perspective. We all profit from looking at examples and breaking them down.

 

[SparkleFur]

Well, I was distracted when I wrote it, and I put in the "then" because it fit the sentence better. I knew it wasn't really the actual Oxford Comma but my brain wasn't functioning properly. So it's good you fixed it.

You never said if you were on Team OC.