Suggestion Thread

[unpredictablebijou]

I don't have time or patience to respond to everything the way I'd like to right now.

But the idea that I'm about to have no control over where a thread of mine ends up, and the idea that the mods are now setting themselves up as arbiters of free speech, deciding who is abusive and who isn't and deleting things when they feel like it, is beyond alarming.

What happens next time Senna says something really over the top about someone's poem? What if he's right? Do you delete it? What if someone else says something mean in general, but we have to support free speech? Will you delete it?

I am rather the poster child for the concept of free speech around here. I've suffered a lot of abuse because of our absolute belief that on Lit, people are allowed to say whatever they want. I wouldn't give that up, not even to ensure that my own existence here is more comfortable.

Trust us. Trust us. We are good people, who love this place and want what's right for it. We will decide how best to help you.

I don't trust anyone, anyone, no matter how wonderful or pure their motives may be, to control communication, to tell people what they can say and what they can't. I wouldn't trust Jesus Christ himself to control free speech.

Sorry. Can't.

I'm out for a bit. Very busy in meat space. But this place is seriously alarming me. I hope that if I come back, the policy will have shifted somewhat, back toward absolute freedom of speech.

As for me, if I create a thread for poetry in the Hangout, and it gets moved to the formal area, I will create another one in the Hangout. If I put something in the Hangout, where ostensibly there is "more" "freedom", then that's where I want it.

I too love this place. I too love poetry. I too love this community and what it stands for. Flame me all you want, privately and publicly. I've already proved I can take it. I will stand for freedom of speech. Always. And despite the mild-mannered, polite rhetoric and the claims that this is all for the benefit of the board, freedom of speech really, really is what this is about.

bj

 

[WickedEve]

Yes, I'm responding since I have freedom of speech!

But the idea that I'm about to have no control over where a thread of mine ends up, and the idea that the mods are now setting themselves up as arbiters of free speech, deciding who is abusive and who isn't and deleting things when they feel like it, is beyond alarming.
I agree, it's alarming, if it were true.
Post a thread in the hangout, unless it breaks forum rules, I can't imagine it ever being moved. Post in the main forum and it probably won't be moved. Usually new posters are the ones who aren't sure where to post, but only at first. You've been here long enough to know how to use the forum. My goodness.

What happens next time Senna says something really over the top about someone's poem? What if he's right? Do you delete it? What if someone else says something mean in general, but we have to support free speech? Will you delete it?
Huh? I don't think we go around deleting over the top comments or mean posts. lol Are you in the right place? Maybe you're confusing this with another forum on another site. Just messin' with you.

I am rather the poster child for the concept of free speech around here. I've suffered a lot of abuse because of our absolute belief that on Lit, people are allowed to say whatever they want. I wouldn't give that up, not even to ensure that my own existence here is more comfortable.
You are for real, right? I'm sorry, but I'm laughing. Really. ha ha ha, oh, that felt good like a laugh orgasm. Thank you. Just messin' with you, again. I'm in a happy mood.

Trust us. Trust us. We are good people, who love this place and want what's right for it. We will decide how best to help you.

I don't trust anyone, anyone, no matter how wonderful or pure their motives may be, to control communication, to tell people what they can say and what they can't. I wouldn't trust Jesus Christ himself to control free speech.

FREE SPEECH! Yes, thank god for bijou! She set speech free!

Sorry. Can't.

I'm out for a bit. Very busy in meat space. But this place is seriously alarming me. I hope that if I come back, the policy will have shifted somewhat, back toward absolute freedom of speech.
Free speech... wait, you're going somewhere?

As for me, if I create a thread for poetry in the Hangout, and it gets moved to the formal area, I will create another one in the Hangout. If I put something in the Hangout, where ostensibly there is "more" "freedom", then that's where I want it.
Who is moving any threads from the hangout? I think there is a misunderstanding.

I too love this place. I too love poetry. I too love this community and what it stands for. Flame me all you want, privately and publicly. I've already proved I can take it. I will stand for freedom of speech. Always. And despite the mild-mannered, polite rhetoric and the claims that this is all for the benefit of the board, freedom of speech really, really is what this is about.

Love, love, love.
Am I flaming you? If I ever do, then it will be here on the forum. Seriously, you talking crazy, girl. No one, not the mods, are taking your free speech or anyone's freedom of speech. This is just plain stupid, to put it mildly, but entertaining.

 

[Angeline]

I don't have time or patience to respond to everything the way I'd like to right now.

But the idea that I'm about to have no control over where a thread of mine ends up, and the idea that the mods are now setting themselves up as arbiters of free speech, deciding who is abusive and who isn't and deleting things when they feel like it, is beyond alarming.

What happens next time Senna says something really over the top about someone's poem? What if he's right? Do you delete it? What if someone else says something mean in general, but we have to support free speech? Will you delete it?

I am rather the poster child for the concept of free speech around here. I've suffered a lot of abuse because of our absolute belief that on Lit, people are allowed to say whatever they want. I wouldn't give that up, not even to ensure that my own existence here is more comfortable.

Trust us. Trust us. We are good people, who love this place and want what's right for it. We will decide how best to help you.

I don't trust anyone, anyone, no matter how wonderful or pure their motives may be, to control communication, to tell people what they can say and what they can't. I wouldn't trust Jesus Christ himself to control free speech.

Sorry. Can't.

I'm out for a bit. Very busy in meat space. But this place is seriously alarming me. I hope that if I come back, the policy will have shifted somewhat, back toward absolute freedom of speech.

As for me, if I create a thread for poetry in the Hangout, and it gets moved to the formal area, I will create another one in the Hangout. If I put something in the Hangout, where ostensibly there is "more" "freedom", then that's where I want it.

I too love this place. I too love poetry. I too love this community and what it stands for. Flame me all you want, privately and publicly. I've already proved I can take it. I will stand for freedom of speech. Always. And despite the mild-mannered, polite rhetoric and the claims that this is all for the benefit of the board, freedom of speech really, really is what this is about.

bj

Bijou this is no flame and I say it respectfully, but you are seriously overreacting. No one is trying to take anyone's free speech away because we created the Hangout or prefer an atmosphere where people don't scream at each other.

I've heard from many people (and by many I mean, well, ten I can think of so far counting them up in my head). Not one of them has the issue you have with the way we run the forum. Not one of them has a problem with having a Hangout or having a setup the way we've described thus far. Many of them won't come in this thread because they don't want to fight. They want to relax and focus on their poetry. That's what I want, and I hope it's what you want.

My policy is that I want to write and have a few laughs. I intend to treat people with respect. If they get abusive to each other to the point where they are screaming and name-calling, we will delete those posts. And I assure you we will know the difference between kidding around and a temper tantrum or whatever you wish to call it. Everyone will be welcome everywhere on the forum, welcome to post where and when they like. And if they break forum rules or start getting personally nasty, we'll deal with it. No one owns threads here, no matter who starts them. Not me or you or anyone.

I believe all of that is reasonable. To call it an abuse of power or limiting free speech is to me going way overboard and, frankly, demonstrating an unwillingness to just relax and write, which is what everyone else seems to want.

You say you love the forum. So do I and I have for a long time. I'm not saying that to pull rank but understand that having been here a long time I've seen forums go through ups and downs, but when people relax and start working together everything improves. There has been just as much anguish as you're expressing when the Story Discussion Circle was created, when other Lit subforums were created, too. And people got over it and all was well.

So I'm not going to argue and say the same things over and over. I'm going to practice what I'm preaching here. If you or anyone else continues to be alarmed by all this, your next step is to contact Laurel and/or Manu. As the site owners their decisions in these matters are final. I'll abide by whatever they decide, but I can tell you now I seriously doubt they'll have a problem with the Hangout or the notion of people posting wherever they want or moving threads if there's a viable reason.

I wish you the best and hope you can enjoy the forum and focus on your poems. I worked hard to get you to come here because I love your poetry. I still do and think that--and enjoying your friends here--is the best use of your time.

 

[Safe_Bet]

You're a lesbian?

My actual OFFICIAL name and title is: Ms. Muffy D. Iver, Queen of the Consolidated Union of Nasty Twat Suckers (C.U.N.T.S.). So in answer to your question - prolly.




Bij: In spite of my prior "highly offended" rant (BTW, thanks Eve for showing me the "fun" of writing posts after a few drinks... ), NOBODY is going to limit "Free Speech". Here, watch:

bij: _____, _____________!

Safe Bet: Bite me!

See, nothing got changed... Hey, wait a minute! Where did bij's comments go?

JUST KIDDING!!!!

bIJ, Do you REALLY think that with the nasty mouths on both Eve and Ange (not to mention WAY filthy minds) that they are going to go around editing "Free Speech"? I'm not going to buy that at all.

If I start flaming back and forth with somebody and they delete one of my posts, I'm okay with that cuz, I know that they aren't going to say "don't respond", but are telling me "don't freak'in go insane when you respond". In other words "politely" telling somebody to "fuck off" is okay, just so long as it doesn't disrupt the REAL reason we frequent this forum which is to read and write poetry with like minded people.

(Mods, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what I "got")

 

[Angeline]

My actual OFFICIAL name and title is: Ms. Muffy D. Iver, Queen of the Consolidated Union of Nasty Twat Suckers (C.U.N.T.S.). So in answer to your question - prolly.




Bij: In spite of my prior "highly offended" rant (BTW, thanks Eve for showing me the "fun" of writing posts after a few drinks... ), NOBODY is going to limit "Free Speech". Here, watch:

bij: _____, _____________!

Safe Bet: Bite me!

See, nothing got changed... Hey, wait a minute! Where did bij's comments go?

JUST KIDDING!!!!

bIJ, Do you REALLY think that with the nasty mouths on both Eve and Ange (not to mention WAY filthy minds) that they are going to go around editing "Free Speech"? I'm not going to buy that at all.

If I start flaming back and forth with somebody and they delete one of my posts, I'm okay with that cuz, I know that they aren't going to say "don't respond", but are telling me "don't freak'in go insane when you respond". In other words "politely" telling somebody to "fuck off" is okay, just so long as it doesn't disrupt the REAL reason we frequent this forum which is to read and write poetry with like minded people.

(Mods, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what I "got")

That would be my understanding, too.

Honestly, I'm not a bad sort and I'm all for free speech, too. Like Champ said earlier, this is change not chatisement. I think Eve and I both have made it pretty clear that we have no plans for moving threads out of the Hangout. That doesn't mean we never would, but I don't have a problem with any of the threads currently here. And as long as everyone understands that we all are welcome everywhere and we treat each other with baseline respect, we're fine. I am not singling anyone out! That applies to everyone, including me, Eve and Lauren.

 

[WickedEve]

QUOTE=Safe_BetMy actual OFFICIAL name and title is: Ms. Muffy D. Iver, Queen of the Consolidated Union of Nasty Twat Suckers (C.U.N.T.S.). So in answer to your question - prolly.




Bij: In spite of my prior "highly offended" rant (BTW, thanks Eve for showing me the "fun" of writing posts after a few drinks... ), OH, think nothing of it! Though I'm far worse without vodka in my system. NOBODY is going to limit "Free Speech". Here, watch:

bij: _____, _____________!

Safe Bet: Bite me!

See, nothing got changed... Hey, wait a minute! Where did bij's comments go?

JUST KIDDING!!!!

bIJ, Do you REALLY think that with the nasty mouths on both Eve I told him to wash his cock, but... and Ange (not to mention WAY filthy minds) that they are going to go around editing "Free Speech"? I'm not going to buy that at all.

If I start flaming back and forth with somebody and they delete one of my posts, I'm okay with that cuz, I know that they aren't going to say "don't respond", but are telling me "don't freak'in go insane when you respond". In other words "politely" telling somebody to "fuck off" is okay, just so long as it doesn't disrupt the REAL reason we frequent this forum which is to read and write poetry with like minded people.

(Mods, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what I "got") You got what? Flame if you want. I'm going to be a bitch if I want, like for the rest of the evening. We don't move/delete bitch posts, never have. No flame-post removing. I LIKE LESBIANS! <-- we don't remove those either. Hugo wants me to be bi. I told him about you. Just sayin'.

 

[Sara Crewe]

I hate to be a dissenting voice amongst all this lovely back-patting but my suggestion for the forum would be that it does not need to be moderated. I would actually love to hear the moderators defend their positions because for the life of me I cannot see any value in what they do. You move spam? Big deal. You move chat? Big freaking deal.

The reality is that by holding a position that gives you access to different controls over the board than other posters AND posting as regular posters you are actually creating conflict on the board. You can’t have it both ways; if you are moderators then stop posting or if you want to post and write poetry than stop being a moderator. If a board the size of the AH which receives way more traffic than the PFD can run without a moderator, why in the world would a board that has no more than ten people at a time on it need to be moderated? This board ran for a very long time without moderators and there were never any problems and the main reason moderators were brought to the poetry forum was to allow for poets to send in anonymous contest submissions. It has been the moderators themselves who have decided to give themselves the authority to do more than that. So, for posters who have only known the board with moderators, it was exactly the same without them except without some of the conflict that stems from having two out of ten posters with the ability to change and shape the forum.
The current moderators can argue all they want that they are not the police and are not here to pass judgment on posts, but every single time you move or delete a post that is exactly what you are doing—you are passing judgment on that person’s thoughts and imposing your own standards on the board.
That might be a good thing, if the moderators in question were not a part of the board itself and made an effort to be impartial. That has quite obviously not been the case with our current moderators since their personal opinions on certain posters are obvious. And that’s fine, we are all human. I’m not saying people shouldn’t express opinion, but if you move into the position of moderator you lose some of your freedom of speech and you do need to be held to a higher standard of fairness. If you are not willing to do so and to bow out of being a regular poster then you shouldn’t be a moderator. It’s impossible to do both unless your mandate as a moderator is black and white—as in moderators delete spam. Anything beyond that in terms of shaping the board and you really do need to see that you may think you are working for the good of the board and the majority, but really you are doing what you think is best. That’s not right, that’s not fair and you are in no way more qualified to decide how the board should run than anyone else.

If you try to do so, you are bound to appear to seem hypocritical and inconsistent. And of course, your standard answer to that is, “well then don’t post here.” To that I say, that very same rule can apply to you. I personally can think of four people off the top of my head who do not believe moderators are necessary and that you are in fact destroying this community and each one has been posting here for years, so maybe you should examine your role in this community and stop saying that you are working for the community. You may think you are, but clearly there are several of us, which is significant in such a small place, who believe you are not.
Personally, I would be fine on the board if I could put our two active moderators on ignore because for the past month they seem to be the only two people who are busy imposing their view of the board and how people should act or not act on everyone else. Oh, and name calling...what was it Eve? ...Pricks and now people are being childish.

So, it's childish and prick-ish to not agree with you? Ange you like to tell people to go back and look at their posts. You should take your own advice and go back and see the hypocrisy that oozes out of every single comment you make in terms of moderation of this board. You cannot say you are here to write poems and then spend all kinds of time criticizing other people for their actions on the forum. Put your money where your mouth is and go and write and leave everyone else to their own devices. You say you aren’t interested in mothering? And you say it I might add in totally condescending way. Well, that’s how your actions are being perceived and people are tired of it.

I have no idea why two seemingly intelligent women cannot see that when you comment on people's actions, what they say etc...you totally comprise your position as a moderator and that becomes personal. Again I say there is no way that anyone can be an active poster and also have power to change the board and move or delete posts. That's a total conflict of interest because any human being would be inclined to want to shape the board to their liking but that's not the purpose of moderation.
You like to talk about moderation on other parts of the board? I dare you right now to find one other single literotica moderator who has ever called another poster a name or commented in a personal way on their behaviour. I have been around just as long as the two of you and I know that you won't find it. You two are the exception and should both resign to Laurel.

You like to talk about the people who tell you in pm how great you are and that the majority of the people here agree with what you are doing? You haven't once considered the fact that there are just as many pm's or people leaving because of your actions? It is a free site and I don’t get care who comes and goes and who posts but I do care that you are abusing your positions as moderators either intentionally or unintentionally and that we, the posters of this board, do not have the option of putting you on ignore.

And when you chastise the people who disagree with you and say that this kind of dissent (on the PFD) is unusual and not typical of the rest of this site you should really take a look at your actions as moderators and not that of the posters because I think for the most part we are all willing to live and let live it’s you who are telling people what their time on this board should look like. You can say you aren’t all you want, but you are.
If you want to be honest and really take a look at your actions you will realize that you are running this board as your own personal space and people are ever so welcome as long as they share your views.
Like I said, stay or go, I don’t care but you both should resign as moderators. Even if you were to alter your policy regarding free speech, I would never trust you again in terms of not tampering with people’s posts. You have abused the position and directly contradicted the philosophy of free speech on which this site was founded.
You say you can’t know how people feel unless they tell you, well, you are on notice that many people are not happy with your actions and attitude-- most of us just let it go or leave because we see that you are both about as responsive as a brick wall. For me personally, you just went too far this time.
And, It’s very big of you Ange to say that you would like to move forward and forget everything that has been uncomfortable for you over the past month when in the end, you have had everything on the PFD go your way due to the imbalance in power. Pretty easy to let it go when it all went your way. People are not going to move forward and forget. Sorry, but some of us don’t agree so how about you stop trying to force us to?
This is exactly what you said in your opening post in case you still can’t figure out why people are uncomfortable with your ability to move posts or delete them:
“However, if people start going off on each other we will delete the posts. It will happen. It may not happen as soon as you see it because the mods do have lives and aren't glued to the forum. But when we see it, it will go. We reserve the right to make these decisions as moderators, and you have to trust that we try to do so in everyone's best interests.”
And before you react to this, really think about the fact that I have been here at this site for eight years and I have never formally complained about a single thing that has been done in this place. You win that honour.

 

[Angeline]

QUOTE=Safe_BetMy actual OFFICIAL name and title is: Ms. Muffy D. Iver, Queen of the Consolidated Union of Nasty Twat Suckers (C.U.N.T.S.). So in answer to your question - prolly.




Bij: In spite of my prior "highly offended" rant (BTW, thanks Eve for showing me the "fun" of writing posts after a few drinks... ), OH, think nothing of it! Though I'm far worse without vodka in my system. NOBODY is going to limit "Free Speech". Here, watch:

bij: _____, _____________!

Safe Bet: Bite me!

See, nothing got changed... Hey, wait a minute! Where did bij's comments go?

JUST KIDDING!!!!

bIJ, Do you REALLY think that with the nasty mouths on both Eve I told him to wash his cock, but... and Ange (not to mention WAY filthy minds) that they are going to go around editing "Free Speech"? I'm not going to buy that at all.

If I start flaming back and forth with somebody and they delete one of my posts, I'm okay with that cuz, I know that they aren't going to say "don't respond", but are telling me "don't freak'in go insane when you respond". In other words "politely" telling somebody to "fuck off" is okay, just so long as it doesn't disrupt the REAL reason we frequent this forum which is to read and write poetry with like minded people.

(Mods, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what I "got") You got what? Flame if you want. I'm going to be a bitch if I want, like for the rest of the evening. We don't move/delete bitch posts, never have. No flame-post removing. I LIKE LESBIANS! <-- we don't remove those either. Hugo wants me to be bi. I told him about you. Just sayin'.

Oh. We disagree. I will remove posts if they're really personally nasty. Well, that's a 50 percent reduction of insane post removal. Shouldn't that count for something? Actually it's probably more like 80 percent because I might not be here or even notice unless someone tells me. Eighty percent less delete!

 

[WickedEve]

I hate to be a dissenting voice amongst all this lovely back-patting but my suggestion for the forum would be that it does not need to be moderated. I would actually love to hear the moderators defend their positions because for the life of me I cannot see any value in what they do. You move spam? Big deal. You move chat? Big freaking deal.

This is as far as I read.
Take it to Laurel. If she doesn't want the mods here, she'll remove us and we'll keep posting poetry. Simple as that. Can't get any easier.

By the way, you post poetry at literotica. Big freaking deal.

 

[Angeline]

Yeah, ditto to what Eve said, Sara. You and I used to be friends. We always got on fine, never had a problem. That only seems to have changed recently. So what is different now, I wonder? You think it's hypocritical for me to say that? I think it's honest.

As Eve said, anyone who doesn't like what we do here is welcome to talk to Laurel and/or Manu about it. I was asked to moderate the forum a long time ago, to the best of my knowledge before you were here as Sara or your previous incarnation so I'm not sure where you get your info about why people were asked to moderate. And I'm not sure what you mean by very long time because I came to the forum early in 2002. (It started in late 1999, December, I think.) What you say is not what I was told or what I remember from anyone. I'm pretty sure The Poets were moderating the forum no earlier than 2003, probably 2002, so "very long time" is at most two or three years. Actually I was under the impression that when we met in chat I was the first who really bugged you to post on the poetry forum. At least that's what I recall you tellng me.

I have no wish to argue and I wish you the best whether you think I'm being snarky or not. I'm not actually but you can choose to disbelieve that. I think you and anyone who feels as you do should take it up with Laurel.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Ummm, Sara, you must be out. Here have some of mine...

​

 

[Tzara]

You guys win, of course. Power always wins.

Congratulations.

 

[Sara Crewe]

This is as far as I read.
Take it to Laurel. If she doesn't want the mods here, she'll remove us and we'll keep posting poetry. Simple as that. Can't get any easier.

By the way, you post poetry at literotica. Big freaking deal.

Wow. Eve responds in a snarky personal attack with a smiley face emoticon? That's a shocking move.



Actually, it is not hypocritical, Ange, it's self-centered and immature to automatically see the problem as someone else and not yourself and your own actions. Must be nice to live in a world without personal responsibility.

I love how once again, you decide to make the issue personal instead of actually addressing your role in this. Typical. I'm done talking to either of you. Please do me the same favour. I have zero respect for either one of you based on your actions with people on this board. As I said before, love to put you both on ignore but can't.

Ange, if you want to think about what's different. Take a look at yourself and your actions here. I am exactly the same person who came here years ago.
And I remember exactly when the mods were brought here and why. It was never to police the board. However, it does not surprise me a bit that you don't remember that. And secondly, some of these problems have been brewing for a very long time but have now exploded because of the mods in everyone's face attitude.

Anyway, live in your own little dream world where everything is peachy keen and all the world is a poem. I was just not okay with you constantly saying that everyone was fine with your actions.

I have pm-ed Laurel. Thanks ever so much for the advice. I never would have thought of it on my own.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

I'm out for a bit. Very busy in meat space. But this place is seriously alarming me. I hope that if I come back, the policy will have shifted somewhat, back toward absolute freedom of speech.

I will miss you, BJ. I really love reading your poems and flirts and bloggy comments. Don't stay gone long unless you have to. I love what you bring to and add to this place.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I'm fed up with this confrontational stuff. The Poets do a great deal to keep this forum moving along and have done for years before many of the nay-sayers arived. If you have a problem with the way things are done - move on. Find a place to your liking, no one will stop you or miss you.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'm fed up with this confrontational stuff. The Poets do a great deal to keep this forum moving along and have done for years before many of the nay-sayers arived. If you have a problem with the way things are done - move on. Find a place to your liking, no one will stop you or miss you.

Or stay - cuz that is your right, as well. If some of "you" leave some of "us" will miss you, your wit and your poetry. If you don't find this place to your liking, try to make it better. That also is your right, REGARDLESS of when you arrived.

 

[Tzara]

I'm fed up with this confrontational stuff. The Poets do a great deal to keep this forum moving along and have done for years before many of the nay-sayers arived. If you have a problem with the way things are done - move on. Find a place to your liking, no one will stop you or miss you.

You and I have, I think, never been at odds, and I have no desire for that to start now. I agree that I am fed up with this confrontational stuff.

We differ on who originated the confrontation and who prolongs it. We also disagree on what "value" the Poets (i.e., the mods) are contributing to the forum.

I think they're the problem, or at least a large part of the problem. You obviously disagree.

Your recommendation is that anyone like me (who is apparently a "nay-sayer") leave the forum as it is not congenial to me.

Why? Why should I?

It wasn't uncongenial when I got here, three and a half years ago. Something changed about it to make it uncongenial. Shouldn't I try to change it back? What the hell is wrong with that?

Discord is uncomfortable to people. Why we all want it to go away. People in power use this to their advantage to persuade everyone that things will be OK if we just all go along with the changes. It's how the Bush administration got us Americans to go along with the civil liberties "suspensions" we agreed to.

The crap going on here now is of course in no way similar to that, other than in being a small group of people with power making things go the way they want.

Why shouldn't I be angry with that, and why should you presume to tell me I should just leave?

 

[PandoraGlitters]

I should just leave?

Please don't. I wish BJ wouldn't either.

 

[Maria2394]

I'm fed up with this confrontational stuff. The Poets do a great deal to keep this forum moving along and have done for years before many of the nay-sayers arived. If you have a problem with the way things are done - move on. Find a place to your liking, no one will stop you or miss you.

I know I haven't helped things at all, but the Mods have never chosen sides, even when I thought they should have. I admire them all 3 for what they do and have done in trying to keep the peace.

I don't see anything wrong with a hangout where people can chat and flirt and whatever, but why should the mods be penalized for trying to make everyone happy? They shouldn't and the trying to make us all happy is the problem. Some do not want peace, some like conflict and when it is pushed out of the mix, they turn tail and run. I never wanted it, it was brought to me and I am a defensive person and jumped right in. However, I won't be dragged into the muck ever again, it even hurts to read the hurtful things said to such good people,and by those I mean, Eve, Ange and Lauren.

Some people want to "Rule the Lit Forum" and it isn't the Mods. This is SO High School, one girlie wants to be the best, the one with the most friends and hurts others in the process. Whatever....Take that anyway any of you perceive. You like who you like, you associate with your own "kind" so be it. Why did something that always existed just now begin to bother people here? Because BJ threatens to leave? I would HATE to see her leave, being the root o f so much "activity" here.

We are all poets, that is as much distinction as I care to assign to anyone here anymore.

I tuned in today and saw all sorts of exciting possibilities here, because of the mods. I am thankful they post and write and I have never seen them curtail anyone's speech except trying to keep the peace and it was usually MINE that was pointed out.

I don't care who is here now, my ignore function works fine.

Keep up the great jobs you do, Evie, Ange and Lauren. and I hope LAuren gets back soon.

 

[The Poets]

This board ran for a very long time without moderators and there were never any problems and the main reason moderators were brought to the poetry forum was to allow for poets to send in anonymous contest submissions.

You have your facts wrong, not that it really matters. We originally created The Poets for contest entries, not for moderation. Later The Poets became mods: Angeline, Lauren, Eve. Then we dropped the name and used our own. The poetry forum didn't become its own forum until, I believe, early 2002, when it split with the story forum. We became mods in Feb. 2004, almost 5 years ago. The poetry forum has been moderated for most of its existence.

 

[Angeline]

You and I have, I think, never been at odds, and I have no desire for that to start now. I agree that I am fed up with this confrontational stuff.

We differ on who originated the confrontation and who prolongs it. We also disagree on what "value" the Poets (i.e., the mods) are contributing to the forum.

I think they're the problem, or at least a large part of the problem. You obviously disagree.

Your recommendation is that anyone like me (who is apparently a "nay-sayer") leave the forum as it is not congenial to me.

Why? Why should I?

It wasn't uncongenial when I got here, three and a half years ago. Something changed about it to make it uncongenial. Shouldn't I try to change it back? What the hell is wrong with that?

Discord is uncomfortable to people. Why we all want it to go away. People in power use this to their advantage to persuade everyone that things will be OK if we just all go along with the changes. It's how the Bush administration got us Americans to go along with the civil liberties "suspensions" we agreed to.

The crap going on here now is of course in no way similar to that, other than in being a small group of people with power making things go the way they want.

Why shouldn't I be angry with that, and why should you presume to tell me I should just leave?

I still don't get what people (a few people) are so angry about. Is it still that we created the Hangout at all? That we've moved some threads? That we've said everyone is welcome everywhere? That we want to keep the focus on poem writing and critique in one of the forums? I don't see any of this as bad. I see it as good and a good direction for us to take. And it's fair to everyone. Even if people don't agree initially, it still doesn't infringe on "rights." I don't see how having to click a few times to go to one forum or the other does that. I guess I can understand why people wouldn't like me saying I'd delete posts where people scream at each other, but in truth I've only even said that to convey how seriously I take those kinds of bashings and how much I don't want it to happen again. And I don't think it will, at least not for quite a while I hope.

I'm not going to post about this here anymore, not unless someone has a question that hasn't already been answered (though I'd prefer to do it in pm because I don't want to prolong this fighting). Of course if people have suggestions about the forum--challenges, contests, overall suggestions--I'll certainly respond to that. That's the reason I started the thread. That can be done anytime here or via pm. I'm pretty sure at this point there's nothing I could say that would pacify those who are angry at me anyway. But I really, really hope none of you leave because you're all good poets and have a lot to contribute.I will say, however, that sometimes when Lit world is too much for me (as in when I get personally reactive to stuff because this is, after all, just a forum on the internet), I take a break. I've done it a few times and it always helps me put what I'm feeling in perspective.

 

[hmmnmm]

I pondered composing a Top Ten of things more important to me than whether a thread created one happenstance day is left in one forum or moved to another. But it's not much of a challenge. Top Forty. That would stretch muscles. But to write a poem? Ew. Pulled muscles there. Today at least.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I honestly didn't have much bother in my mind about changing the forum around, if it had made threads hard to find it might have been a different matter but it's hardly rocket science is it? Nor do I have any issues with anyone that it did upset although occasionally I have had the urge to climb in your heads and knock your way of seeing it (as an 'us and them' undercover plot) over a few notches on the cog wheels. It makes no difference to me where I chat/flirt and where I get poetic I go to both parts of the forum as the mood takes me and I've never felt segregated,
What does hurt is when people that I care about lets it get to them to the point of wanting to leave. It's a message board it won't change your life, it won't bring you untold wealth ..... it does bring you friends and wonderful poetry ffsssssssss how the hell does how it's set out change any of that?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

You and I have, I think, never been at odds, and I have no desire for that to start now. I agree that I am fed up with this confrontational stuff.

We differ on who originated the confrontation and who prolongs it. We also disagree on what "value" the Poets (i.e., the mods) are contributing to the forum.

I have not said who “originated or is prolonging” the dissent and don’t think that is at all important. Do you really want the forum do descend to GB level? Have you ever been to the (totally un-moderated) GB? It is anarchy, no holds barred apart from disclosure of personal info.

I think they're the problem, or at least a large part of the problem. You obviously disagree.

Yes, I do.

Your recommendation is that anyone like me (who is apparently a "nay-sayer") leave the forum as it is not congenial to me.

…..if the hat fits. It is not “congenial” to have little, if any, positive input in the forum yet be very ready with public complaints. Having said that, the time and effort you put into the Forms Thread was admirable if a little misguided, all of the information is a click away to anyone interested to try the challenge.

Why? Why should I?

Because you obviously don’t like it here and want to change it, I for one don’t want you to change it or leave.

It wasn't uncongenial when I got here, three and a half years ago. Something changed about it to make it uncongenial. Shouldn't I try to change it back? What the hell is wrong with that?

Put your finger on what changed to make it less congenial ? I’m not as regular a visitor as some but saw nothing change except the recent irritation over the Hangout development. (To The Poets - Can’t that be undone? ) Would that make you less unhappy T or is the damage irreparable?

Discord is uncomfortable to people. Why we all want it to go away. People in power use this to their advantage to persuade everyone that things will be OK if we just all go along with the changes. It's how the Bush administration got us Americans to go along with the civil liberties "suspensions" we agreed to.

This made me laugh out loud. Is the “power” these “people” have that irks you? Tell me how your perfect poetry forum would work? “Go along” with what exactly, the division of the Poetry versus the Hangout? I really can’t see what the problem is. As I’ve said, I’m not really “in the loop” so I may have missed something, tell me.

The crap going on here now is of course in no way similar to that, other than in being a small group of people with power making things go the way they want.

And that is…..?

Why shouldn't I be angry with that, and why should you presume to tell me I should just leave?

I did not tell you to leave. I suggested anyone finding this place not to their liking might be better off elsewhere in a site run to their tastes. In fact it has become nigh on impossible for the thread to be what is meant to be so perhaps it’s time for people like me to drop out.

I could have done this in a PM but you pissed me off royally!

 

[Angeline]

You and I have, I think, never been at odds, and I have no desire for that to start now. I agree that I am fed up with this confrontational stuff.

We differ on who originated the confrontation and who prolongs it. We also disagree on what "value" the Poets (i.e., the mods) are contributing to the forum.

I have not said who “originated or is prolonging” the dissent and don’t think that is at all important. Do you really want the forum do descend to GB level? Have you ever been to the (totally un-moderated) GB? It is anarchy, no holds barred apart from disclosure of personal info.

I think they're the problem, or at least a large part of the problem. You obviously disagree.

Yes, I do.

Your recommendation is that anyone like me (who is apparently a "nay-sayer") leave the forum as it is not congenial to me.

…..if the hat fits. It is not “congenial” to have little, if any, positive input in the forum yet be very ready with public complaints. Having said that, the time and effort you put into the Forms Thread was admirable if a little misguided, all of the information is a click away to anyone interested to try the challenge.

Why? Why should I?

Because you obviously don’t like it here and want to change it, I for one don’t want you to change it or leave.

It wasn't uncongenial when I got here, three and a half years ago. Something changed about it to make it uncongenial. Shouldn't I try to change it back? What the hell is wrong with that?

Put your finger on what changed to make it less congenial ? I’m not as regular a visitor as some but saw nothing change except the recent irritation over the Hangout development. [B](To The Poets - Can’t that be undone? )[/B] Would that make you less unhappy T or is the damage irreparable?

Discord is uncomfortable to people. Why we all want it to go away. People in power use this to their advantage to persuade everyone that things will be OK if we just all go along with the changes. It's how the Bush administration got us Americans to go along with the civil liberties "suspensions" we agreed to.

This made me laugh out loud. Is the “power” these “people” have that irks you? Tell me how your perfect poetry forum would work? “Go along” with what exactly, the division of the Poetry versus the Hangout? I really can’t see what the problem is. As I’ve said, I’m not really “in the loop” so I may have missed something, tell me.

The crap going on here now is of course in no way similar to that, other than in being a small group of people with power making things go the way they want.

And that is…..?

Why shouldn't I be angry with that, and why should you presume to tell me I should just leave?

I did not tell you to leave. I suggested anyone finding this place not to their liking might be better off elsewhere in a site run to their tastes. In fact it has become nigh on impossible for the thread to be what is meant to be so perhaps it’s time for people like me to drop out.

I could have done this in a PM but you pissed me off royally!

Could we get rid of the Hangout? Sure, but why? As far as I can see two people, maybe three, are unhappy with it. Sara said four in her post, but I don't know who that is. I've heard either here or in pm from more than twice as many people, actually now three times that so far, who have not a single problem with what we're doing. And at this point even changing it back would still leave a few people grousing because "we're" the problem, me and Eve. Apparently we're as bad or worse than the Bush Adminstration. I'm sorry but that just makes me laugh. It's ridiculous. As far as I can see what needs to happen is that people need to calm down and write poetry. Or do whatever they do here.