suicide

[ABSTRUSE]

if that is hell, then what is suicide?

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.”


That’s all it’s about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn’t even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.


Don’t accept it if someone tells you, “that’s not enough to be suicidal about.” There are many kinds of pain that may lead to suicide. Whether or not the pain is bearable may differ from person to person. What might be bearable to someone else, may not be bearable to you. The point at which the pain becomes unbearable depends on what kinds of coping resources you have. Individuals vary greatly in their capacity to withstand pain.

When pain exceeds pain-coping resources, suicidal feelings are the result. Suicide is neither wrong nor right; it is not a defect of character; it is morally neutral. It is simply an imbalance of pain versus coping resources.



the stigma of suicide

 

[Nirvanadragones]

and those who are left behind sit with a life time of " Why was I not a good enough reason for her to want to stay alive?"

 

[rgraham666]

Part of the hopelessness is the feeling of a total loss of value to anyone else. You believe your life or existance has no value or importance to anyone else.
It is an end to a day to day existance that has no meaning to you, you believe to any one else.

a quote from a message i received. It's so sad that someone could possibly
feel so totally lost and hopeless

That was my state of mind at that time. My marriage had ended, my career as a computer programmer as well.

Mentally ill, I was on welfare. My provincial government was ruled by people who knew that everyone on welfare was a leech and had cut it 23%. They also loosened the rules on how and how much rents could be raised. So my income became less than my rent.

As I said earlier, it was simply a choice of deaths at that point.

 

[wazhazhe]

That is so true Rob..
and did you know, that if your mentally ill, your also probably..stupid, ignorant, lazy, worthless and of course- just looking for attention.

This is a joke, right?

 

[Liar]

This is a joke, right?

Irony, I assume.

 

[FallingToFly]

and those who are left behind sit with a life time of " Why was I not a good enough reason for her to want to stay alive?"

Wanna come sit with me?

 

[Guest]

and those who are left behind sit with a life time of " Why was I not a good enough reason for her to want to stay alive?"

you are the most amazing person i know beautiful. Its not that you were not good enough reason for her to stay alive. She felt she wasnt good enough for you or for anyone else.

 

[rgraham666]

you are the most amazing person i know beautiful. Its not that you were not good enough reason for her to stay alive. She felt she wasnt good enough for you or for anyone else.

Just so.

I still struggle with my feelings of worthlessness every day.

Not surprising. Growing up the one constant message I received was, "You're not worth the effort. You know that."

 

[Guest]

Just so.

I still struggle with my feelings of worthlessness every day.

Not surprising. Growing up the one constant message I received was, "You're not worth the effort. You know that."

there is something really wrong if thats the message kids get. Specially when they get the message through their parents reactions and actions and not only what they say

 

[Pure]

rg,

you must soldier on, despite any tortures in the 'self worth' department.

you have much to offer. further, if you read the really innovative research--not the pop stuff, not Branden, dr. Phil, etc., -- many of the most gifted folks lack much 'self worth feeling,' and many are able to accomplish something notwithstanding.

best,

 

[Selena_Kitt]

you must soldier on, despite any tortures in the 'self worth' department.

you have much to offer. further, if you read the really innovative research--not the pop stuff, not Branden, dr. Phil, etc., -- many of the most gifted folks lack much 'self worth feeling,' and many are able to accomplish something notwithstanding.

best,

Dr. Phil! *shudder* don't get me started...

most of our renowned artists were either mentally ill or addicts...
many were suicidal... some (Plath comes to mind) succeeded...

 

[rgraham666]

It's difficult in our society, Pure.

As my favourite writer puts it, "Reason, unable to handle genius, has wed itself to mediocrity."

Truly intelligent people have a strong streak of irrationality running through them. Our society loathes the irrational. It's uncontrollable and unpredictable.

It's also why it fear mental illness so much.

 

[scheherazade_79]

"Self-Suicide" - Goldie Looking Chain

I tries to do it proper but keeps comin' up a cropper.
I needs some hype - I think I'll ram-raid Happy Shopper.
Haven't got a car so I use a space hopper
Bouncing to the window, cut my head, show stopper.
I want a hundred fans, 200 teeny boppers
I want police protection from 87 coppers.
I wanna go gold, even better platinum.
If you wanna be a star you gotta kill yourself, man.
It's the truth, step back, take a look around
Elvis is dead for being fat - 500 pound.
Kurt Cobain's rich as fuck, he's buried in the ground.
Jimi Hendrix and his amp still ain't makin' no sound.
Michael Hutchence, he's one of 'em too -
Made a hundred million quid dying tossing on the loo

S-U-I-C-I-D-E ...it might be messy but it's money for free

Suicide is painless, or so it has been said.
I could've killed myself but I'd be better off dead,
So I took a deep breath, put a gun against my head
Pulled the trigger, click, should've been eating lead.
But I wasn't, I was naked in John Frost Square.
Mothers with pushchairs stopped and stared.
For this situation I was quite unprepared
Tried suicide to be famous but nobody cared.

Committing suicide to enhance my career -
It worked for Mickey and Tupac Shakir.
Jesus was nailed up to some wood -
2000 years later and book sales are still good.
I heard in a song suicide is painless
And it's 80% sure to make you famous.


S-U-I-C-I-D-E ...it might be messy but it's money for free
S-U-I-C-I-D-E ...it might be messy but it's money for free

 

[Angel Love]

I tried it once upon a time. I was 17 and thought that nobody loved me in the entire world. It was not true of course. It was my misconception after many a bad experience with my young life. I threatened to do it again when I woke up, but they thwarted my efforts once again . . . sighs then, but I am so very grateful now. I have two of the most . . . well I happen to think THE most wonderful children in the world and that would not have been possible if I had succeeded.

So my thanks go out to the busy bodied, uncaring, asshole, imbecilic, idiots who stopped me when I wanted to die. They are now in my heart forever.

It is not the answer to pain and suffering. . . just a reaction.

Hugggles and kisssses to all my fellow attempted suicide brothers and sisters.
Warm prayers for all of the succeeders.

 

[inlovewithyourghost]

I tried once... it didn't work. But I was ten, so I really didn't understand all of the logistics and the proper way to go about poisoning myself... Sometimes ignorance really pays off.

So. I was having a discussion earlier... and I feel that it belongs here... Thoughts on the topic of suicide:

I don't think you should be scared. You shouldn't see it as a threat. It's not something bad. I think there are elements to it that are very foreign to you. Like, you said - "if you were really scared that you were going to do something, you wouldn't hide that from me." ...

I'm not scared. Not even in that moment. It's not scary. It's safe. It's not something that can be explained. If I try, I see an image of someone being trapped in a very small, tight space. It's difficult to breathe and there is no way to get out - no matter how you try. And you start panicking. And you can't breathe. You keep trying to push away what is around you, so that you can get out. Try and move the
walls that's on your left and right away.But you can't. You need to get away. You need to get out. Because your body is hurting, being so incredibly taxed. And then, in the least unexpected place, you find an opening. A way to get out. And you know it's not in the direction you want to go. But it's an option that you didn't have before. And just thinking about it, makes being in your current hell, more bearable.

Because there is a way out. And it's yours. No one can take it away from you. You control it. You decide. And you know, that if ever, the pain becomes so incredibly debilitation that you want to die, you can. I didn't ever have a defining reason for not doing it. Usually, it would just take too much energy. It would take me to actually DO something. And in that case, I might as well live.

 

[impressive]

Damn. I love it when I revisit my old opinions and don't feel like I was totally full of shit.

 

[christabelll]

What a powerful thread....

Many Years ago, after escaping a living hell, I was homeless, clueless (no skills what so ever), and hurting so bad it felt like I was eating sleeping pissing dreaming pain...
I had actually climbed the fence of a pier and sat straddling it (about a 300 hundred foot drop) for what seemed ages... I was moaning and weeping, rocking back and forth clutching and unclutching myself and the fence...

It really felt as if I had all these voices arguing inside of me...
DO it do it... get it over with you worthless piece of shit...never were worth the effort to spit
Do it do it...the pain will end...it will all go away
how can how can you you have your whole life ahead of you, this will pass... (I was 17)
For all your pain, what gives you the right to inflict that kind of pain on some one else... what happens to the person you were supposed to meet in ten years?
etc etc...

Ultimately, I talked myself out of it with this...."You are stupid to think jumping into the water will kill you... you know how to swim...Be smart... get down and go get something to eat at the soup kitchen..."

Over the years there have been three incidents where I lost control and went on these huge crying screaming ranting jags that would last about a week... twice they tried to put me into the psych ward... twice I got out in 12 hours or less....cross juridictional habeus corpus does wonders to get them to listen to a crying raging woman who shook like a leaf but had no drugs or alchohol inher system.....

The only other time I considered the possibility was the day my ex got my children from me....I came home from work to find them gone... gone... taken from their school in the middle of the day...I didnt know where they were for three months.... It was the first time I had cried so much that my face looked like a heavy weight boxer had gotten at me... it took me close to three months just to be able to think clearly again... and almost a year to not cry every time I saw them... I still cry inside when I have to leave them with my ex... (still fighting it out)


I know and understand many many dynamics that lead to suicide... I have lost a few friends that way... but here I am ... struggling gamely on.... there is more to life than pain... and thats what I think we forget when its piled on us till we do break.........

 

[Guest]

Robbing another of life or innocence, in my opinion, is the worst.

I agree completely.

Maharat

 

[Guest]

yet think about how many times some people get to that point but they dont do it. What is the difference between being right there and having the strenght to not do it, or just going ahead with it?

pure cowardice, or fear of what comes next. it is a powerful deterrent.

or the simple fact that whatever is out there might not be so much better.

Maharat

 

[Guest]

Ask the parents who pulled the plug.

Ask the parents who said, "No more chemo" and allowed their child's cancer to run its course.

Ask the parents who chose to abort upon learning their child had a disability.


We're not talking suicide any longer, obviously. I'm not saying I'd make the same choices, but I am saying those decisions were "of rational mind."

ask the parents who pulled the plug for a little angel whose only knowledge of this world was unstoppable pain...

Maharat

 

[GentleSub_Ivy]

This is an incredible thread.

I guess I don't have anything new to add but wanted to reiterate what some others have said.

When I tried this as a teenager, I felt completely worthless. I was made to feel this way as a young child, and I carry that feeling with me to this day. At times it is overwhelming. Never as much as it was in my deepest depression though. Also, at times it is the impetus that keeps me going. It's almost as if I say "F*ck you!" to the almost malicious little voice that keeps telling me I'm worthless and I use that momentum of anger I feel to overcome what obstacle I am facing at the time like climbing a steep hill and finally reaching the top. Yes, I've had much therapy in this vein .

My point is that the total lack of feeling that I mattered was what drove me to attempt to take my own life and of course the overwhelming pain that felt emotional and physical. The physical sensation was like someone sitting on my chest keeping me from breathing. As others have said on the thread, I think this is where many people who try this are coming from.

 

[Frank Noir]

Part of the hopelessness is the feeling of a total loss of value to anyone else. You believe your life or existance has no value or importance to anyone else.
It is an end to a day to day existance that has no meaning to you, you believe to any one else.

a quote from a message i received. It's so sad that someone could possibly
feel so totally lost and hopeless

But there it is: That is the mindset I know so well and has had me considering ending the pain more than once.

I'm currently getting professional help, and I'm trying my best to get away from that mindset. But the description is so spot-on that it's actually painful for me to read.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

No. It's far worse when someone decides that they're going to take someone with them when they suicide...like the mother who walked into the ocean with her two children, or the father who set his car on fire with his two kids buckled up in the back.

Inevitably in such cases, the adult lives and the children die. THAT is something worse, and truly selfish.

What's happening in a case like this is that the parent is so hopelessly depressed that they think they're doing the children a favor by sparing them the pain of living. It's hard to conceive of that kind of pain, but believe me, there are people who live with it. There are people who live with it every day.

As far as I'm concerned there are two kinds of suicide. One kind is a gesture of rage against the world, the ultimate angry deed and act of defiance. This is always morally wrong because it's clearly intended to hurt and punish others.

The second kind is flight from unendurable pain. The fact is, that when our pain becomes greater than our resources for handling it, suicide starts looking like an attractive option. This is really euthanasia, and the morality is more complicated.

It's not always easy to tell what the motives are, but I think for most of us, we're angry. We're hurt, neglected, and terribly, terribly angry.

 

[starrkers]

I periodically get to that lovely point where suicide looks like a pleasant option. But intellectually I ruled it out years ago. I have no right to end my life. I have children. And I will not put them through that. I may not be good enough for them, but they think I am.
So, no matter how awful things feel, I must stay.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I periodically get to that lovely point where suicide looks like a pleasant option. But intellectually I ruled it out years ago. I have no right to end my life. I have children. And I will not put them through that. I may not be good enough for them, but they think I am.
So, no matter how awful things feel, I must stay.

Yeah. Once you have kids your life's not your own anymore. You're stuck.