Suspension of Disbelief

[Vix_Giovanni]

This is a variation of the thread that ran a month or so ago where people said, "Oh, I don't like it when writers say, 'This is based on a true story'" as if that somehow makes it less worthy than fiction. Which is obviously bullshit. Truth is very often stranger than fiction, and anyway, how does anyone know?

Yes, I remember that thread and the OP’s request for feedback on a true story. I personally think that whether or not a story is true matters very little since this is an unvetted self-publishing site. But I respect that an author might have personal reasons to let readers know her story is true.

But I think that there’s a distinct variety of gloomy, unsolicited criticism on Lit that doesn’t question or debate but merely dismisses; not only the details a critic is unfamiliar and/or uncomfortable with or simply dislikes—i.e., multiple orgasms or polyamory or “based on a true story” headers—but the author as well. I understand that it’s, in part, a pitfall of crowdsourcing and online anonymity and other multiple factors, but I nonetheless find its priggishness off-putting. I personally don’t give that kind of criticism much weight, and I think it speaks more to the critic’s lacking scope of imagination than a critiqued story’s surreality.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For example, if I recall correctly Bramblethorn (I think it was Bramblethorn) could not buy into the type of civilization that existed in Game of Thrones given that world's bizarre weather history and enormous timeline. It was a well-thought-out objection, but it's the sort of thing that doesn't bother me at all. But something that DID bother me a lot was the ability of the characters to transport themselves almost instantaneously around a huge continent without adequate explanation, or Euron Greyjoy's magical shipbuilding abilities.

Yeah, that was me.

The transport thing probably would've bothered me if I'd noticed it, but I wasn't paying close enough attention to GoT to pick up on that kind of thing (and I don't have a very strong spatial sense).

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah, that was me.

The transport thing probably would've bothered me if I'd noticed it, but I wasn't paying close enough attention to GoT to pick up on that kind of thing (and I don't have a very strong spatial sense).

I'm the kind of person that spent unhealthy amounts of time poring over the maps of Middle Earth as a kid. Yes, it bothered me.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

.....

 

[ElectricBlue]

But I think that there’s a distinct variety of gloomy, unsolicited criticism on Lit that doesn’t question or debate but merely dismisses; not only the details a critic is unfamiliar and/or uncomfortable with or simply dislikes—i.e., multiple orgasms or polyamory or “based on a true story” headers—but the author as well. I understand that it’s, in part, a pitfall of crowdsourcing and online anonymity and other multiple factors, but I nonetheless find its priggishness off-putting. I personally don’t give that kind of criticism much weight, and I think it speaks more to the critic’s lacking scope of imagination than a critiqued story’s surreality.

I agree - it's the syndrome often referred to as the Category Police - those self-appointed and usually narrow minded individuals who say, "There's no place for your kink here," and mark stories down just because stories don't adhere to their limited world view. I don't pay them much attention. "It's my story, I'll write how I damn well please."

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm the kind of person that spent unhealthy amounts of time poring over the maps of Middle Earth as a kid. Yes, it bothered me.

Middle-Earth, you say...

(though in fairness, the canon answer to all of the points in that article is "gods did it")

 

[kinkbugs]

Wow! Thank you everyone for sharing! I love reading the anecdotes about what tripped other people's realism acceptance switch.

I'm the kind of person who prefers to fantasize about things outside of my reality so even though I've never managed to give someone a multi-o or managed a polyam relationship, I do enjoy the thought of it, which I think is evident in my writing.

For some reason, i thought that people would be more relaxed about erotica because well, it's meant to be fantasy, but I'm coming to realize that anything and anyone can make people just nope out of a story.

 

[SimonDoom]

Middle-Earth, you say...

(though in fairness, the canon answer to all of the points in that article is "gods did it")

I guess it's been a while since I looked at those maps, which seems like a good thing.

In this case the grammar Nazi won out over the Tolkien freak. I never understood why it would be Middle-earth and not Middle Earth.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I guess it's been a while since I looked at those maps, which seems like a good thing.

In this case the grammar Nazi won out over the Tolkien freak. I never understood why it would be Middle-earth and not Middle Earth.

Apologies, I wasn't trying to correct the grammar there - I didn't even notice that you'd written it differently. And I had the capitalisation wrong myself.

From the Wiki entry, it looks like JRRT was harking back to Old English "middan-geard" (aka "Midgard"), and medieval "midden-erd", "middle-erd". So I would guess that lack of capitalisation of "earth" is because what he intended was not "the middle of planet Earth" but rather "the middle of several lands".

 

[pollyannaowt]

Yep, 90% of RL poly is about managing schedules

Truest sentence I've read at Literotica. Dayplanners are essential.

 

[Polyacrylate]

Apologies, I wasn't trying to correct the grammar there - I didn't even notice that you'd written it differently. And I had the capitalisation wrong myself.

From the Wiki entry, it looks like JRRT was harking back to Old English "middan-geard" (aka "Midgard"), and medieval "midden-erd", "middle-erd". So I would guess that lack of capitalisation of "earth" is because what he intended was not "the middle of planet Earth" but rather "the middle of several lands".

My understanding is that this is more-or-less correct. It's Middle-earth because it is the land between the great sea of Rhun and the lands beyond in the East and the Sea of Belegaer and Aman in the west.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

On a slight deviation, I would suggest that almost all erotica requires some suspension of belief, or at least a willingness to temporarily accept unreality as real.

The average married couple is probably in their 40s and, according to the Kinseys, they have sex not much more than once a week (https://www.medicaldaily.com/am-i-normal-average-sex-frequency-week-linked-age-421328). That’s reality. The average erect humans penis is less than 6” long and the plethora of ED medication ads would suggest that a large proportion of them aren’t working to code, so to speak. That’s reality.

The average cup size in the USA for Caucasian women is a DDD (yep! https://babeappeal.com/average-breast-size-in-america/), but I suspect that has a lot to do with obesity in a country where a third of the population is officially classified as obese. That’s reality.

The CDC says that 50% of sexually active adults have or have had an HPV infection as some time in their lives (90% shake it off without treatment, many without knowing they had it). That’s reality.

Reality, for most of us, just ain’t that great. We turn to a lot of things for relief, including erotica. But, outside of a few niche kinks, we don’t want obese participants with a good chance of an STD. We want hard bodies with six-packs. We want firm, shapely boobs. We don’t want the reality of accidental pregnancies, periods, premature ejaculation, headaches and heat rashes. We want, most of us, very unrealistic characters in our porn. We want generous millionaires helping out beautiful but unappreciated waitresses. We want undiscovered swans. We want the tropes - and they ain’t real.

To succeed in erotica, I will maintain, you have to write the unrealistic. Whether or not you do succeed depends on how well you can do that.

Oh, as to the ‘This is a true story’ opening, I myself just dread the things. All too often it’s a warning flag that the author is trying to convince me that their bad writing should somehow be excused because of that tired phrase. YMMV, of course.

 

[NotWise]

On a slight deviation, I would suggest that almost all erotica requires some suspension of belief, or at least a willingness to temporarily accept unreality as real.

When I first started writing for Lit I wanted my stories and my characters to be fairly realistic. I found the only way to do that was to assign the characters with various psychoses and social problems. People don't normally act like characters in erotica.

I eventually embraced the fantasy, and what I find now is that readers seem to be able to embrace all sorts of fantasy elements along with the fantastic characters; gods rising from petroglyphs, people relating stories from inherited memory, broken machinery miraculously repaired, people transcending to higher beings -- and all of that in I/T stories.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

On a slight deviation, I would suggest that almost all erotica requires some suspension of belief, or at least a willingness to temporarily accept unreality as real.

The average married couple is probably in their 40s and, according to the Kinseys, they have sex not much more than once a week (https://www.medicaldaily.com/am-i-normal-average-sex-frequency-week-linked-age-421328). That’s reality. The average erect humans penis is less than 6” long and the plethora of ED medication ads would suggest that a large proportion of them aren’t working to code, so to speak. That’s reality.

The average cup size in the USA for Caucasian women is a DDD (yep! https://babeappeal.com/average-breast-size-in-america/), but I suspect that has a lot to do with obesity in a country where a third of the population is officially classified as obese. That’s reality.

The CDC says that 50% of sexually active adults have or have had an HPV infection as some time in their lives (90% shake it off without treatment, many without knowing they had it). That’s reality.

Reality, for most of us, just ain’t that great. We turn to a lot of things for relief, including erotica. But, outside of a few niche kinks, we don’t want obese participants with a good chance of an STD. We want hard bodies with six-packs. We want firm, shapely boobs. We don’t want the reality of accidental pregnancies, periods, premature ejaculation, headaches and heat rashes. We want, most of us, very unrealistic characters in our porn. We want generous millionaires helping out beautiful but unappreciated waitresses. We want undiscovered swans. We want the tropes - and they ain’t real.

To succeed in erotica, I will maintain, you have to write the unrealistic. Whether or not you do succeed depends on how well you can do that.

Oh, as to the ‘This is a true story’ opening, I myself just dread the things. All too often it’s a warning flag that the author is trying to convince me that their bad writing should somehow be excused because of that tired phrase. YMMV, of course.

Ditto. Well said, TP.

A side note, but related, is a little bit of math fun: While the average erect penis size is less than six inches, the median penis size (i.e., what most men have) is about five inches erect. Most human male penises are between (approximately) 4.5 and 5.5 inches erect. The outlier 1%ers are over 9 inches erect. Its an exciting example of math fun; the extreme difference in size of this small minority raises the average of all men more than a half inch!! But perhaps this is also why many readers have a visceral (often negative) reaction to large endowments.

I’d suspect cup sizes partly relate to the similar population maths of average vs median, and also partly that manufacturers like babeappeal now make wider ranges of bra sizes than they did in prior decades (with more choices than just AA-D, more women are likely finding that a larger cup is their right fit).

I eventually embraced the fantasy, and what I find now is that readers seem to be able to embrace all sorts of fantasy elements along with the fantastic characters; gods rising from petroglyphs, people relating stories from inherited memory, broken machinery miraculously repaired, people transcending to higher beings -- and all of that in I/T stories.

as soon as I saw this list, I thought, “These must be I/T stories” lol

 

[ElectricBlue]

To succeed in erotica, I will maintain, you have to write the unrealistic. Whether or not you do succeed depends on how well you can do that.

The trick, I think, is to write the unrealistic fantasy, realistically. Anchor the unreal or surreal with a grain of truth and readers are willing to suspend their disbelief and follow you just about anywhere.

I always hark back to the comment received about my Rope and Veil story, "Thank you both for sharing." It's a job well done when a reader thinks two characters, both completely fictional, are real.

 

[ElectricBlue]

A side note, but related, is a little bit of math fun: While the average erect penis size is less than six inches, the median penis size (i.e., what most men have) is about five inches erect. Most human male penises are between (approximately) 4.5 and 5.5 inches erect. The outlier 1%ers are over 9 inches erect. Its an exciting example of math fun; the extreme difference in size of this small minority raises the average of all men more than a half inch!! But perhaps this is also why many readers have a visceral (often negative) reaction to large endowments.

Vix, you are a provocateur erotique, stirring us poor men like that.

Meanwhile, I remain secure in the knowledge of my own mathematical contribution. Of course, it all depends which chart you use. And which vegetable you compare yourself to .

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The trick, I think, is to write the unrealistic fantasy, realistically. Anchor the unreal or surreal with a grain of truth and readers are willing to suspend their disbelief and follow you just about anywhere.

Precisely - and very well put.

 

[Hypoxia]

I'm at LIT for smut. I do not expect smut to be physically or emotionally accurate, merely plausible within the fantasy realm. I do have an idea of what comprises reality, which too often kills arousal. So continue with consistent fantasies. No farting whilst fucking.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Vix, you are a provocateur erotique, stirring us poor men like that.

Meanwhile, I remain secure in the knowledge of my own mathematical contribution. Of course, it all depends which chart you use. And which vegetable you compare yourself to .

I’m sorry; I have no intent to be a provocateur... except to wear Agent Provocateur. As much as I love math, my only hope is, like Candide, to make everyone’s garden grow

 

[NotWise]

No farting whilst fucking.

Oh come on! What's the problem with that little bit of reality? If you even notice, then your head is literally in the wrong place. Farting while eating ass (or pussy) or sucking cock is a different issue, but it could be funny.

I'm not really into pristine fantasy. One of the longest and highest scored bits I've written centered around the female protagonist's period. Really... beginning to end, it was about her period.

There were some fantasy elements involved.

 

[Hypoxia]

(oops)

 

[JaxRhapsody]

I write to get away from reality, life seems so much better when it ain't real.

 

[Tabithablack]

I read a story about a middle aged out of shape shmuck who of course had four nubile barely legal-I'd say borderline underage TBH- girls all over him, and he was able to fuck and cum for each one...

But in the comments section someone pointed out 'its ridiculous to think five people could fit on a twin bed, which is what you said was in his apartment.'

It seems the kink itself is always believable, but everything else is up for grabs.

 

[Polyacrylate]

I read a story about a middle aged out of shape shmuck who of course had four nubile barely legal-I'd say borderline underage TBH- girls all over him, and he was able to fuck and cum for each one...
,
But in the comments section someone pointed out 'its ridiculous to think five people could fit on a twin bed, which is what you said was in his apartment.'

It seems the kink itself is always believable, but everything else is up for grabs.

Beng a Gen Xer who spent his childhood in the Midwest and the South of the US, I believe there is quote from The Simpsons' prime that applies to every situation. To make that point:

Doug:
In episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is a magic xylophone, or something? Ha ha, boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

Just saying.

 

[Tabithablack]

Beng a Gen Xer who spent his childhood in the Midwest and the South of the US, I believe there is quote from The Simpsons' prime that applies to every situation. To make that point:



Just saying.

Wow....I'm not sure what's worse, that he noticed that, or he felt it was in issue.

I do remember that episode though....I need a life