Tax the Rich?

[dan_c00000]

you own a house worth $250k and have $80k in equity in that. You have another $20k in equity in your car, $215k in an IRA, $30k in savings and another

All that adds up to nearly half a million dollars. How'd I'd do that on $50k a year? What are you high or terrible at math?

 

[gunthernehmen]

All that adds up to nearly half a million dollars. How'd I'd do that on $50k a year? What are you high or terrible at math?

And just like that the point whizzed right past your ear.

The point: You pay income tax on INCOME, not on POSSESSIONS.

That's why it's call income tax and not possession tax.

If you have $2 in net worth but you earned $500,000 last year, you pay taxes on $500,000 not on $500,002.

If you have $200,000,000,000 in net worth but you earned $500,000 last year, you pay taxes on $500,000 NOT on $200,000,500,000.

Such a simple concept. INCOME tax.

 

[CamronsInsider]

Buffett Calls Trump’s Bluff and Releases His Tax Data

So what exactly is the issue with taxing the folks who have the money?

 

[dan_c00000]

INCOME tax.

That wasn't my question. You ignored that because you can't do math. I'm asking how I was able to purchase all that shit in the first place. Let's use your $50k example. I paid $12k in taxes. Now I've got $38k. If my mortgage is $1000 a month now I'm down to $26k. The average new car costs $36k. A used car costs $20k. That's just the car and the house and I'm either under by $10k or down to $6k to pay for everything else on that list. You didn't even include basic things like food, heat, water, clothes, or state income tax.

Again, are you high or just terrible at math?

 

[gunthernehmen]

That wasn't my question. You ignored that because you can't do math. I'm asking how I was able to purchase all that shit in the first place. Let's use your $50k example. I paid $12k in taxes. Now I've got $38k. If my mortgage is $1000 a month now I'm down to $26k. The average new car costs $36k. A used car costs $20k. That's just the car and the house and I'm either under by $10k or down to $6k to pay for everything else on that list. You didn't even include basic things like food, heat, water, clothes, or state income tax.

Again, are you high or just terrible at math?

This is so frigging simple I don't get why you don't understand.

You're somewhere around 35. Let's say you earn $100k a year, each and every year. Expect back in 2010, Uncle Ralph died and left you two billion dollars. For whatever reason you decided to keep working. Or maybe now your $100k/year income is from interest or whatever. It doesn't matter what it's from.

Back in 2010 you PAID income taxes on that two billion dollars. Even after paying the taxes you STILL have a billion dollars and change in the bank.

Why on God's green earth should you pay taxes on that money AGAIN?

Do you understand the difference between net worth and income? It isn't the same thing at all.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Let's fine that under "Things Racists Say". Another wonderful self own.

You're using the word racist wrong....you should look it up.


Crying "racism" is when you know the left has no argument.

 

[dan_c00000]

Uncle Ralph died and left you two billion dollars.

Oh so now I've got an uncle with $2 billion? Am I also capable of walking through walls in your preposterous scenario?

I got busted being a racist, again.

Don't forget I unmasked you as racist dawn too, racist.

 

[freakyguy41]

So many condescending comments, it's amazing that anyone can even try to discuss a topic.

"Is it fair that 1 percent of the population pays over 37 percent of taxes while 44 percent pay nothing at all? Q. Fottrell, More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax, MarketWatch (Feb. 26, 2019)"

IMHO, the short answer is absolutely... the longer answer is what did the 1% do to earn the money they're receiving other than to walk to the mailbox to open the envelopes with the checks and/or open their online accounts to see how much money they've made. On the other hand, if 44% are working every day... 40+ hours per week and most are busting their ass just to try to have somewhere to live, something reasonable to eat and okay to wear... then yes, those on the bottom should pay no tax. We need to remember, that since Reagan, more than 3% of total wealth has been transferred from the bottom 20% to the top 5%... that doesn't happen across so many people as an average without the wealthy having their thumb on the legislative scale.

Commenting on some other prior listed points... let's simplistically recognize a few issues of economic history...
In the 1920, with high unemployment, the republican president and government significantly cut taxes and deregulated the banks... resulting in the roaring '20s which crashed into the great depression.
For a couple decades after WWII, the U.S. lived large because it had blasted the rest of the world to dust. Most of Europe, Russia, Asia and the Pacific Rim were decimated so they were all heavily reliant on the U.S.
In 1981, Reagan significantly cut taxes and benefited greatly from the advent of the microcomputer and computer networking (which he had nothing to do with... it really came from the space program) and his trickle down economics ended with two recessions. The wealthy were given a financial advantage with the tax cuts under the philosophy that if the wealthy had more money, they would create more jobs and middle and lower class wealth but, when the recessions hit, they hit the poorest the hardest... resulting in a transference of wealth from the poor to the wealthy. It's important to note that Reagan tripled the annual debt to spend on the military (not on NASA or other exploration).
In 1989, Bush I followed suit and again cut taxes but he was not so fortunate as to inherit a technology boost so his economy went into recession and he his presidency. Again, the wealthy were given a financial advantage with the tax cuts under the same philosophy that if the wealthy had more money, they would create more jobs but, when the recession hit, it hit the poorest the hardest... again resulting in a transference of wealth from the poor to the wealthy. It's important to note that Bush I also increased the annual debt to spend on the military (not on NASA or other exploration).
Clinton came along and let his predecessors tax cuts expire AND he benefited greatly from the logical evolution of networked computers called the Internet... which he did not invent or have anything to do with (again, this is an echoed result of the space program from Kennedy). Clinton also decreased military spending, which put more money into the general economy, increasing taxable revenues so Clinton leaves office with his economy generating an annual surplus. But, there's one issue here... republicans took control of congress in 1998 and they negotiated a deal with Clinton which deregulated the banks... the Grahm, Leech, Bliley Act.
Enter Bush II... following the traditional republican model, he cuts taxes and not only does he heavily invest in the military, we enter two wars after being attacked... a time when all Americas would have accepted a tax increase... but instead he skyrocketed the annual debt to over a $ trillion in just 8 years. The result, coupled with the deregulated banks just as was done in 1920 under Herbert Hoover, gave us near depression. Once again the Bush II tax cuts favored the wealthy under the same philosophy and once again, when the near depression hit, it resulted in what turned out to be a gross transference of wealth from the most poor to the wealthiest.
In comes Obama... he's got to settle everything down. The economy isn't generating the tax revenues it once was but, he can't appreciably cut spending without driving the economy into depression. So he gradually lets the Bush II tax cuts expire, he re-regulates the banks with Dodd-Frank, and year-over-year, quarter by quarter, the economy continues to improve as he also removes us from the expense of two wars after getting Bin Laden. His economy grows at somewhere between 2% to 2.5% annually for eight years in a row... I had to laugh at the comment above about the "Obama Malaise"... I guess 2%+ for 8 years in a row isn't good enough for some... they'd rather have 4% and a recession or depression at the end... probably because they think they'll be better off after the next downturn because the wealthy have been provided the tax advantage.
Now comes his Tweetness... the be all, end all big swinging johnson. Like his republican predecessors, he significantly cuts taxes AND deregulates the banks. He "rebuilds" the military... does anyone know what he's spending an additional $ 400 billion annually on? Note... since WWII we've spent $ 14 trillion more THAN ALL OTHER NATIONS COMBINED on our military... so if it needs rebuilding in 2016, it's only because the military has completed fucked up for 70 years. Moreover, investments in military don't spin new technologies into the private sector nearly as fast as exploration to create middle class jobs... nor do investments in airplanes and ships provide better security... if we TRULY wanted security, we'd already have bases on the moon and Mars... then we could tell Russia, China and NK to F themselves... plus the technologies developed to have those bases would deliver all the good paying, middle class jobs we're looking for.

So yes... the top 1% should pay the taxes proportional to their wealth... not their income. Republicans have manipulated a relatively stagnant, cyclical economic system in which they give they give the uber wealthy the advantage, fire up the economy and then it crashes... each time leaving the wealthy in a better position than the poor... and executed over decades, they've amassed quite a fortune for themselves... and built a huge military disproportionately made up of the poor and minorities to protect themselves as well.
When will Americans pull their heads out of their ass and learn their economic history or is this a learning disability brought on by repeated republican economic strategy? Now i'm sure, the republicans among us will try to say that my accounting of history is too simplistic... to which I call nonsense... this phenomena ONLY takes place under republican tax cutting and heavy investment in military spending and NEVER takes place under a democratic presidency... sure, the world and economic conditions change over time, which is why the resulting recession or depression manifests differently, giving republicans an excuse to point at some other cause other than their own greed for power and wealth.
Yes, if you're wondering... I am a democrat BUT, I am a capitalist. I strongly believe in free enterprise and, if a person builds a business, they should reap the rewards of doing so... but I also believe American business should have as much fiduciary responsibility toward its employees as it, by law, has for its investors. Quite the system we have... if you have a shit ton of money and you invest in businesses, the business is required by law to earn as much money for you as possible without concern as to whether or not the people generating that wealth have enough to live on.

 

[gunthernehmen]

... So yes... the top 1% should pay the taxes proportional to their wealth... not their income. ...

A lot of words don't make you right. You seemed to be saying that since some people were (or are) assholes back in the day that they and others ought to give up their money to share with other people (that are just a different variety of asshole).

YOU want socialism / communism some sort of ism. You can go someplace that has it, like maybe Venezuela. HERE we fund government through (among other things) income taxes. Income taxes are paid on income.

It's so simple even Dan should be able to understand. However, by the time he reached high school the education system here was already trashed by "educators" that had degrees in educating but no actual experience or skills at it. It's not his fault he can't reason but he is stuck with the result.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Oh so now I've got an uncle with $2 billion? Am I also capable of walking through walls in your preposterous scenario?

I was trying to dumb down the explanation so you'd understand it. Apparently I didn't dumb it down enough LOL

 

[urguyscott]

I think you are missing the point. Everyone here is trying hard to figure a fair and honest method of paying taxes and getting the money to where it belongs in helping the country and its citizens. A fair tax code that doesn't favor one group or another.

But what you are forgetting is that Congress and the state Assemblies are run by rich politicians. They make the tax laws and they are not going to hurt themselves while at the same time increasing taxes off the poor and middle class and business owners. Most of the politicians are lawyers who don't know how to handle money. Hey they charge the same amount per hour that high class call girls do only difference is when a call girl finishes you have a smile on your face but when a lawyer finishes with you you know your really have been..... over.

The great thing about our country unlike most other countries is that everyone has a chance to become "rich". We all want that. If you let accountants set up the tax charts and business people who know how to run a company without it going into the red wouldn't you want that? Politicians are always asking for more money. Why should we give it to them when they wasted that last batch we gave them? And when you pay a tax for a certain reason like highways then that money better go to that reason and not into the pockets of someone else.

If you want a fair tax code then get fair and honest people to set it up.

 

[dan_c00000]

Apparently I dumb LOL

Yes, apparently you are.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Don't forget I unmasked you as racist dawn too, racist.

When that's pretty much the only thing Dan or any other generic USA hating lefty can reply with, you know you've won.

 

[gunthernehmen]

I think you are missing the point. Everyone here is trying hard to figure a fair and honest method of paying taxes and getting the money to where it belongs in helping the country and its citizens. A fair tax code that doesn't favor one group or another.

If you want a fair tax code then get fair and honest people to set it up.

I'm not sure there is a "fairer" way than taxing on what you earn. There is probably a whole lot of unfairness built into how deductions work but that's on the politicians that set up the tax code to benefit themselves over all others.

The only world where it's fair to take the property someone already possesses is a communist world like AOC wants for us.

You want a "fair" income tax? Take 20% of any incoming dollar. Across the board. Everybody pays in. No deductions. No nothing. Earn a dollar, pay twenty cents to the G man. Earn two dollars, pay forty cents.

Only now, require those politicians to live within the budget "or else". Reduce the scope of government until it fits within its means.

Dan will be crying because he'll have to start paying taxes.

Yes, apparently you are.

When that's pretty much the only thing Dan or any other generic USA hating lefty can reply with, you know you've won.

Pretty much.

 

[Rightguide]

When that's pretty much the only thing Dan or any other generic USA hating lefty can reply with, you know you've won.

Is he trying to say that he unmasked you as the thread starter?

 

[BotanyBoy]

I think you are missing the point. Everyone here is trying hard to figure a fair and honest method of paying taxes and getting the money to where it belongs in helping the country and its citizens. A fair tax code that doesn't favor one group or another.

Fair and honest is flat. Everyone pays the same % and gets the same deductions.

The great thing about our country unlike most other countries is that everyone has a chance to become "rich". We all want that.

Not the socialist faction of the (D).

They want to make sure NOBODY is allowed to be rich.

If you want a fair tax code then get fair and honest people to set it up.

True story.

Is he trying to say that he unmasked you as the thread starter?

Or a Dawn alt...idk, he gets hard to understand when he's all pissed when "BUT RICH PEOPLE!!!" doesn't get me upset.

If he spent more time trying to be more like rich people instead of demonizing them, maybe he wouldn't be so poor and envious.

But that's the lefts lot in life.

 

[onthefence88]

Nah, we shouldn't tax them. We should just take their ill-gotten gains and redistribute it fairly to those who create that wealth. You think any billionaire works harder than someone on minimum wage with multiple jobs? Please. Alas, there's literally no sense in trying to explain solidarity with the poor and oppressed to the vast majority of Americans. You've all been so fucking brainwashed by anti-socialist propaganda.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Nah, we shouldn't tax them. We should just take their ill-gotten gains and redistribute it fairly to those who create that wealth. You think any billionaire works harder than someone on minimum wage with multiple jobs? Please. Alas, there's literally no sense in trying to explain solidarity with the poor and oppressed to the vast majority of Americans. You've all been so fucking brainwashed by anti-socialist propaganda.

Yeah I remember that occupy bullshit a couple years ago.

Some asshole was in the news complaining about the awful capitalist companies.

He was wearing a down coat. One of those poofy tufted ones. I googled it. It cost him about $500.

Spare me the sob story on me so sad because I'm poor.

 

[dan_c00000]

Is he trying to say that he unmasked you as the thread starter?

No, I unmasked dawn as his racist alt. Come on guys you all go to the same Klan meeting. Get your racist act together.

that's on the politicians that set up the tax code to benefit themselves over all others.

No, it's also on the idiots who keep voting those same politicians into office. Mitch "The Itch" McConnell is a perfect example of this.

 

[gunthernehmen]

No, it's also on the idiots who keep voting those same politicians into office.

Yup. Not to mention Nancy (32 years in office) and Chuckie (new kid on the block at 26 years...). The Clintons, of course, Bill as President and Hillary (thank God!) NOT as President. Etc.

 

[DawnODay]

The rich don't pay taxes. They avoid paying their taxes....

Uh... KeithD, you're simply wrong there:

The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).

The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of total individual income taxes.​

A. Tanzi, Top 3% of U.S. Taxpayers Paid Majority of Income Tax in 2016, Boomberg (Oct. 14, 2018). This isn't based on nominal rates. It is based on actual receipts.

You're just pointing to the gross disparity between the rich and the poor. The point is that they don't pay anything close to what code says they should pay.

You're just wrong again, KeithD. The only "disparity between the rich and the poor" is that the rich pay far more than their fair share in taxes.

Another misconception about the U.S. tax code is that high-income Americans pay less in taxes because they benefit disproportionately from tax breaks, otherwise known as tax expenditures. While that may be true for certain individuals, in the aggregate the U.S. tax code remains progressive — with higher-income taxpayers paying a larger share of their income in taxes — even after tax breaks have been taken into account....

the top one percent of American taxpayers still pay an effective tax rate of approximately 31.9%, on average, while the bottom 20 percent of the population pays an average of approximately 3.9%....

66 percent of taxes collected for 2016 will come from those in the top quintile, or those earning an income above $147,700 annually. Within this group, the top one percent of income earners... will contribute almost a quarter of all federal revenues collected.​

Who Pays Taxes? PGPF (Mar 29, 2018) (emphasis added).

 

[icanhelp1]

No, I unmasked dawn as his racist alt. Come on guys you all go to the same Klan meeting. Get your racist act together.



!


No, it's also on the idiots who keep voting those same politicians into office. Mitch "The Itch" McConnell is a perfect example of this.

Dan, You're being fucking stupid again!

 

[icanhelp1]

You're just wrong again, KeithD. The only "disparity between the rich and the poor" is that the rich pay far more than their fair share in taxes.

Another misconception about the U.S. tax code is that high-income Americans pay less in taxes because they benefit disproportionately from tax breaks, otherwise known as tax expenditures. While that may be true for certain individuals, in the aggregate the U.S. tax code remains progressive — with higher-income taxpayers paying a larger share of their income in taxes — even after tax breaks have been taken into account....

the top one percent of American taxpayers still pay an effective tax rate of approximately 31.9%, on average, while the bottom 20 percent of the population pays an average of approximately 3.9%....

66 percent of taxes collected for 2016 will come from those in the top quintile, or those earning an income above $147,700 annually. Within this group, the top one percent of income earners... will contribute almost a quarter of all federal revenues collected.​

Who Pays Taxes? PGPF (Mar 29, 2018) (emphasis added).

Dawn Dawn Dawn, you're letting the facts get in the way again. Get with the program!!! You'll never be a card carrying trumpette behaving like this. If you want to get on KeithD's good side you have to sprinkle in some "tRump is a racist" or "tRump is a baby killer" or even maybe tRump is a piece of shit and what he really likes is "he's a white supremacist" and if want him to fall head over heals in love with you write "tRump won't turn over his taxes because he's a criminal". See, it's that easy. I'd give up on Dan if I were you.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Nah, we shouldn't tax them. We should just take their ill-gotten gains and redistribute it fairly to those who create that wealth. You think any billionaire works harder than someone on minimum wage with multiple jobs? Please. Alas, there's literally no sense in trying to explain solidarity with the poor and oppressed to the vast majority of Americans. You've all been so fucking brainwashed by anti-socialist propaganda.

Yes...we're very pro liberty and freedom here.

We support individual rights, including the right to private property and ownership of self, including ones labor and that to maintain as free of a society as possible the state has to justify it's confiscation of property and labor.

Unlike the socialist who are authoritarian and don't think anyone has any right right of any kind to own their own labor.

That's why socialism is considered so anti-American to anyone who's taken a US history class and paid even the slightest attention.

Also forcing solidarity with the poor via government authority is the ultimate oppression.....that's how the socialist managed to rack up a body count that made the Nazis look like fucking cub scouts with China by far being the bloodiest of them all.

If you're a socialist in the USA, you're in the WRONG country....our government is a liberal democracy pretty much designed to make sure your politics NEVER come to be.

 

[icanhelp1]

Yes...we're very pro liberty and freedom here.

We support individual rights, including the right to private property and ownership of self, including ones labor and that to maintain as free of a society as possible the state has to justify it's confiscation of property and labor.

Unlike the socialist who are authoritarian and don't think anyone has any right right of any kind to own their own labor.

That's why socialism is considered so anti-American to anyone who's taken a US history class and paid even the slightest attention.

Also forcing solidarity with the poor via government authority is the ultimate oppression.....that's how the socialist managed to rack up a body count that made the Nazis look like fucking cub scouts with China by far being the bloodiest of them all.

If you're a socialist in the USA, you're in the WRONG country....our government is a liberal democracy pretty much designed to make sure your politics NEVER come to be.

Well botanyboy,... there lies the problem. People really don't know what socialism truly is, they don't teach it in school. They can't differentiate between the two because they don't know any better. My younger family members are all Bernie fans, free everything for everybody. They don't understand the underpinnings of free market capitalism. They only focus on the extremely rich and the very poor and discard everything in the middle, they only believe in wealth distribution unless it's their wealth. They don't realize that they are slowly giving up their freedoms. In socialism the people work for the government and in capitalism the government work's for the people. Incentive and hard work produce wealth, wealth distribution creates a society looking and waiting for a handout. They look at Venezuela and can't associate that they're the very definition and embodiment of socialism. They think that 22 trillion in debt doesn't mean anything but what the don't see is how many programs are lost to to the 400 billion we pay annually in interest.