Ten Conservative Principles

[rachaelwillguideyou]

&

 

[rachaelwillguideyou]

Boebert's literacy(?) test to become a US citizen --

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...-a-biblical-literacy-test-to-be-a-us-citizen/

 

[SkyBubble]

I regard it as fucking hilarious that Edmund Burke is considered a conservative.

Burke, as much as anyone, is the father of modern conservatism. It is on his principles, largely, that modern conservatism is built.

 

[SkyBubble]

Boebert's literacy(?) test to become a US citizen --

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...-a-biblical-literacy-test-to-be-a-us-citizen/

The Daily Kook.

 

[SkyBubble]

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Completely, totally wrong. A bald-faced lie.

 

[SkyBubble]

he problem with conservatism, as I see it, is that it's more a set of attitudes than a statement of clear principles. Conservatives of the Russell Kirk/Edmund Burke type are somewhat wary of principles as such

No. It's ideology they oppose. Conservatism is not an ideology. It does have a set of principles, which Kirk himself set out to describe, as in this very thread.

 

[SkyBubble]

American conservatives lack a stable long term religion.

Quite the opposite.

 

[SkyBubble]

Sixteen Principles of MAGA

MAGA is not conservative.

 

[SkyBubble]

Do you support the current President and why?

On some things yes, on many things no.

 

[Bray123]

MAGA is not conservative.

Oh, my mistake.

They were not the 16 principles of MAGA, but the 16 principles of Fascism. Very easy to confuse the two, nobody spotted it.

 

[ll74]

On some things yes, on many things no.

Do you support the current President and why?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Completely, totally wrong. A bald-faced lie.

It’s very much true. If you look down your list of supposed conservative “principles”, each and every one they apply selectively as it suits them. They’re hard a fast moral precepts when it comes to their opponents or minorities, but more flexible general principles when applied to themselves.

“Laws for thee, rights for me.” Is the only consistent Conservative belief.

 

[SkyBubble]

It’s very much true. If you look down your list of supposed conservative “principles”, each and every one they apply selectively as it suits them. They’re hard a fast moral precepts when it comes to their opponents or minorities, but more flexible general principles when applied to themselves.

“Laws for thee, rights for me.” Is the only consistent Conservative belief.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. It's absolutely false. In fact, it describes your side of the aisle better.

 

[Hel_Books]

The 6 January insurrectionists are pardoned, meanwhile these people end up in jail:

. . . a family currently being held in an American internment camp in Texas. Freddys Padilla Revilla, Edgarianny Cortez Gervis, and their 7-year-old daughter came to America from Venezuela legally. They went through the system, settled in Texas, and worked legally.

When they learned that Edgarianny was pregnant this summer, they decided to go back to Venezuela. They saw the writing on the wall. So they went through all the proper government channels to execute a “self-deportation.” Because even leaving the American immigration system is a mess.

On July 6 they went to their ICE check-in appointment after being told they were approved to self-deport. Instead of being given travel documents, they were arrested.

This father, his pregnant wife, and their daughter have been held in an American prison camp ever since. Edgarianny has no access to prenatal care. Their daughter barely eats and has told her parents she wants to die.

Our government is doing this in our names. To a family that followed all of our laws and then made their own decision to leave America when it was clear that we no longer wanted them.

Freddys and Edgarianny have written to Sen. Katie Britt asking for help, since Britt told the New York Times that she’s concerned about the welfare of immigrant children

Conservative principles?

 

[Sign54]

The 6 January insurrectionists are pardoned, meanwhile these people end up in jail:

. . . a family currently being held in an American internment camp in Texas. Freddys Padilla Revilla, Edgarianny Cortez Gervis, and their 7-year-old daughter came to America from Venezuela legally. They went through the system, settled in Texas, and worked legally.

When they learned that Edgarianny was pregnant this summer, they decided to go back to Venezuela. They saw the writing on the wall. So they went through all the proper government channels to execute a “self-deportation.” Because even leaving the American immigration system is a mess.

On July 6 they went to their ICE check-in appointment after being told they were approved to self-deport. Instead of being given travel documents, they were arrested.

This father, his pregnant wife, and their daughter have been held in an American prison camp ever since. Edgarianny has no access to prenatal care. Their daughter barely eats and has told her parents she wants to die.

Our government is doing this in our names. To a family that followed all of our laws and then made their own decision to leave America when it was clear that we no longer wanted them.

Freddys and Edgarianny have written to Sen. Katie Britt asking for help, since Britt told the New York Times that she’s concerned about the welfare of immigrant children

Conservative principles?

A guy flew a CONFEDERATE FLAG at the Capitol during the riots.

 

[rgraham666]

Burke, as much as anyone, is the father of modern conservatism. It is on his principles, largely, that modern conservatism is built.

If Burke is considered a conservative in any way, shape, or form it is because the left/right or conservative/liberal dialectic forced him there.

The speech to the Electors of Bristol is a humanist argument, not a 'conservative' one.

 

[rachaelwillguideyou]

Number One is 'Rip as many people off as possible.' Just like Don Jr with his Public Square company.
https://en.sedaily.com/internationa...-maga-marketplace-faces-delisting-after-stock

 

[SimonDoom]

The speech to the Electors of Bristol is a humanist argument, not a 'conservative' one.

I don't read that speech as inconsistent with Kirk's conservative principles.

More importantly, that speech was given 16 years before Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France. which embodies his conservatism. Burke supported American independence, but later opposed the excesses of the French Revolution.

 

[rgraham666]

I don't read that speech as inconsistent with Kirk's conservative principles.

More importantly, that speech was given 16 years before Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France. which embodies his conservatism. Burke supported American independence, but later opposed the excesses of the French Revolution.

That's right. He opposed the excesses of the French Revolution. But that is a humanist principle, not a 'conservative' one.

 

[SimonDoom]

That's right. He opposed the excesses of the French Revolution. But that is a humanist principle, not a 'conservative' one.

Have you read Reflections on the Revolution in France? I don't know where you get this from, but Burke is considered by many to be one of the chief sources of conservative thinking over the last two hundred years. His objection to the French Revolution was based on its adherence to abstract, Enlightenment principles as opposed to tradition and organic institutions. Those are the essence of conservative beliefs. His writings gave rise to the concept of the "Burkean conservative," which lives today. Russel Kirk operated very much in that space. Kirk explicitly discusses Burke at length in The Conservative Mind, and there's a clear intellectual line between Burke's book and Kirk's work.

Burke's book was NOT a reaction to the excesses of the French Revolution, because it was written in 1790, before the excesses (the "Terror") happened. Burke predicted that bad things would happen, but his concern was about tearing down traditions and institutions. It was an inherently conservative concern.

Humanism is a better description of Thomas Paine's response to Reflections, The Rights of Man. That's a humanist work, because it emphasizes the importance of abstract humanist rights and defends getting rid of institutions when they are perceived to transgress those rights.

It's important here not to confuse "conservatism" of the Burke/Kirk type with what many people today consider conservatism, which doesn't attach the same importance to institutions and tradition.

 

[SkyBubble]

If Burke is considered a conservative in any way, shape, or form it is because the left/right or conservative/liberal dialectic forced him there.

The speech to the Electors of Bristol is a humanist argument, not a 'conservative' one.

False on all scores. Burke is the foundation of modern conservatism. His defense of order, liberty, tradition, and the "little platoons" of family, community, voluntary organizations, churches, etc. is a foundational conservative idea.

Russell Kirk explicitly wrote that "modern conservatism commences with the age of Edmund Burke" and described the principal conservatives of the Western world as Burke's conscious or unconscious disciples. The Kirk Center likewise describes Burke as the founder of modern conservatism in England and places Burkean principles at the center of American conservative thought.

Kirk didn't merely happen to put Burke's name in the subtitle. The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot was explicitly an attempt to identify and describe a conservative intellectual tradition, and Kirk put Burke at its beginning.

Burkean tradition is more complicated than "preserve whatever exists." Burke was profoundly concerned with prescription, continuity, order, and inherited institutions, but he also believed existing institutions could be unjust and that reform should be conducted prudently rather than through abstract revolutionary schemes.

Reform isn't inherently anti-conservative. Reform becomes conservative when it repairs a damaged institution so that the institution can continue serving its proper purpose. The alternative is revolutionary destruction -throwing away the accumulated structure because it doesn't conform perfectly to some abstract conception of justice.

 

[SkyBubble]

Let me share a couple of stories.

In 1955, the Hillsdale College football team went 9-0. They were invited to the Tangerine Bowl, which at the time served as kind of a small-college championship game. That game would have done wonders for Hillsdale's reputation and prestige, as well as its finances.

But the organizers said Hillsdale had to leave its four black players at home. The team voted unanimously to refuse the bowl bid. Principles matter.

 

[SkyBubble]

1963, the Gault Hotel, Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The first National Convention of Young Americans for Freedom. 450 delegates. This is the segregation era. Segregation was enshrined in many states' laws.

Among the 450 delegates was a delegate from New York named Don Parker. He was black. The Gault Hotel told hm he couldn't register; he couldn't stay there.

What do you suppose YAF did? They told the hotel management that either Parker stayed there or they would take their 450 guests and go elsewhere. That was their choice: accept the black guy or lose 450 young conservatives. They let Parker stay there. They desegregated.

 

[SkyBubble]

It’s very much true. If you look down your list of supposed conservative “principles”, each and every one they apply selectively as it suits them. They’re hard a fast moral precepts when it comes to their opponents or minorities, but more flexible general principles when applied to themselves.

“Laws for thee, rights for me.” Is the only consistent Conservative belief.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SkyBubble]

The speech to the Electors of Bristol is a humanist argument, not a 'conservative' one.

"In the modern age, the task of the humanist is to remind man of his spiritual reality." -- Irving Babbitt, conservative thinker.