Texas Style right to life

[Pure]

cant said, {correction: Lady Jeanne said}

//I have a couple friends in the Peace Corps in Africa and they've been getting around the birth-control prohibition //

Yes, I should add a couple points to the Texas pro life list. That it's wrong to 'artificially' prevent life, and a murder/crime ever to hasten death.

I've always had trouble understanding those concerned with abortion, also opposing birth control, but GWB and co. is somewhere in that league (various evangelical churches and the RCC). I understand a fondness for 'life' and preservation thereof, but not the desire to see it pop up in any location, no matter how poor and deprived and unlikely to survive. I don't see the starving child as a plus for 'life' nor a proper incentive for better agriculture or medical research.

I believe it goes back to sin: an original reason for opposing abortion, historically, was that it detracted from paying the wages of sin. Its being assimilated to homicide came much later. A reason birth control --including barrier methods--is opposed is its alleged promotion of fornication (which seems to be proceeding at a brisk rate in these African countries)--and again, its providing an escape from the 'natural' consequences thereof.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Sorry if my brutish manner of expression, inane stereotyping, and inability to appreciate nuance have offended you.

Apologies, Pure, for my lack of clarity, which was ironically an attempt to avoid being offensive. I had no problems with your questions and found them interesting. They are good questions, but I've decided not to contribute to further debate on this thread. Please do accept my apologies for inadvertantly suggesting that you'd done anything to offend, as that is not at all the case. Please also forgive the brief hijack - I would not have troubled the thread with this post but for a belief that when one offends in public, one's apologies should also be public.

Shanglan

 

[Pure]

Lady Jeanne,
my apologies, for my reply to you was mis-addressed to cantdog. i hope you'll read it; i posted the correction.

 

[LadyJeanne]

cant said, {correction: Lady Jeanne said}

//I have a couple friends in the Peace Corps in Africa and they've been getting around the birth-control prohibition //

Yes, I should add a couple points to the Texas pro life list. That it's wrong to 'artificially' prevent life, and a murder/crime ever to hasten death.

I've always had trouble understanding those concerned with abortion, also opposing birth control, but GWB and co. is somewhere in that league (various evangelical churches and the RCC). I understand a fondness for 'life' and preservation thereof, but not the desire to see it pop up in any location, no matter how poor and deprived and unlikely to survive. I don't see the starving child as a plus for 'life' nor a proper incentive for better agriculture or medical research.

I believe it goes back to sin: an original reason for opposing abortion, historically, was that it detracted from paying the wages of sin. Its being assimilated to homicide came much later. A reason birth control --including barrier methods--is opposed is its alleged promotion of fornication (which seems to be proceeding at a brisk rate in these African countries)--and again, its providing an escape from the 'natural' consequences thereof.

The inconsistencies and blatant hypocrisies in the positions of a vocal segment of the pro-life contingent are abhorrent to me and can't be adequately explained through logic and reason, in my view. I don't agree with their conclusions and fear the repercussions of their agenda, so the last thing I want or would trust them to do is make 'life' decisions on my behalf.

Our system of government gives our legislatures the power to draw some lines for us regarding 'life' and it gives our politicians the ability to wield their power to make society conform to their own beliefs. It's not about sin; those with power seek to control the behavior of others so it conforms to their own positions and have always done so, ever since the early days of man and tribes. Religions and governments were often used to serve the ends of those with wealth and power so they might retain it.

The more fully we realize that our governments and our churches aren't necessarily looking out for our best interests and are seeking to perpetuate and exploit the system for their own benefit, the farther we will go in looking out for ourselves and our own beliefs. It's up to each of us to draw our own lines as best we can and to fight to preserve our ability to do so. Otherwise, we get what we settle for.

 

[cantdog]

You just get sexier every day, LJ. Great rant.

 

[LadyJeanne]

You just get sexier every day, LJ. Great rant.

It's the snake, isn't it?

 

[cantdog]

No, I know snakes. I think your strength is your straight back and your tall stance, your pretty eyes set wide, your good solid character. I do believe you're the bee's goddam knees, but not from the snake. The guts to put your face on the posts is a plus, too. I believe you to have depth and integrity, listening to the way you fool around with people and the things you let slide.

Sorry; you did ask.

 

[LadyJeanne]

No, I know snakes. I think your strength is your straight back and your tall stance, your pretty eyes set wide, your good solid character. I do believe you're the bee's goddam knees, but not from the snake. The guts to put your face on the posts is a plus, too. I believe you to have depth and integrity, listening to the way you fool around with people and the things you let slide.

Sorry; you did ask.

I did ask, and now I'm picking my jaw up off the floor - wow! I'm sincerely grateful for your generous praise. Your impressions mean a lot as they're coming from someone I've come to respect for his honesty, insightful and thoughtful remarks, and talented writing.

Oh, dear, my ego won't fit through the door for the rest of the day, so I guess I'll have to just sit here writing or something.

 

[Pure]

Nurses on death by dehydration

Volume 349:359-365 July 24, 2003 Number 4


New England Journal of Medicine
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/349/4/359
Nurses' Experiences with Hospice Patients Who Refuse Food and Fluids to Hasten Death

Linda Ganzini, M.D., M.P.H., Elizabeth R. Goy, Ph.D., Lois L. Miller, Ph.D., R.N., Theresa A. Harvath, R.N., Ph.D., Ann Jackson, M.B.A., and Molly A. Delorit, B.A.



ABSTRACT
Background Voluntary refusal of food and fluids has been proposed as an alternative to physician-assisted suicide for terminally ill patients who wish to hasten death. There are few reports of patients who have made this choice.
Methods We mailed a questionnaire to all nurses employed by hospice programs in Oregon and analyzed the results.

Results Of 429 eligible nurses, 307 (72 percent) returned the questionnaire, and 102 of the respondents (33 percent) reported that in the previous four years they had cared for a patient who deliberately hastened death by voluntary refusal of food and fluids. Nurses reported that patients chose to stop eating and drinking because they were ready to die, saw continued existence as pointless, and considered their quality of life poor. The survey showed that 85 percent of patients died within 15 days after stopping food and fluids. On a scale from 0 (a very bad death) to 9 (a very good death), the median score for the quality of these deaths, as rated by the nurses, was 8.

On the basis of the hospice nurses' reports, the patients who stopped eating and drinking were older than 55 patients who died by physician-assisted suicide (74 vs. 64 years of age, P<0.001), less likely to want to control the circumstances of their death (P<0.001), and less likely to be evaluated by a mental health professional (9 percent vs. 45 percent, P<0.001).

Conclusions On the basis of reports by nurses, patients in hospice care who voluntarily choose to refuse food and fluids are elderly, no longer find meaning in living, and usually die a "good" death within two weeks after stopping food and fluids.

Source Information
From the Department of Veterans Affairs (L.G., E.R.G., M.A.D.); the Department of Psychiatry (L.G., E.R.G.) and the School of Nursing (L.L.M., T.A.H.), Oregon Health and Science University; and the Oregon Hospice Association (A.J.) — all in Portland, Oreg.
Address reprint requests to Dr. Ganzini at the Mental Health Division, P3MHDC, Portland Veterans Affairs Medical Center, P.O. Box 1034, Portland, OR 97207, or at ganzinil@ohsu.edu.
-----

Interesting article by doctors on the same subject

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/128/7/559