The beauty of submissive men

[SEVERUSMAX]

I do not submit because it was asked of me, expected of me or required of me.

I submit because it feels like the natural way to me. I submit because I truly desire to serve another.

At one time, I didn't understand this, but now I do.

 

[jushorny]

A Chicago photographer, Victor Skrebneski photographed the nude male body quite well. Search Victor Skrebneski Male Photography for examples.

THIS A MILLION TIMES OVER.

I'm as hetero as they come, so dominating a woman holds no appeal to me. My dream? Having a lean, muscled man on his feet in front of me, his iliac crest well formed, lean thighs, mmmyyuuupppp. I love the male form. It's like, you wanna just roll around in men. Enjoy them, savor them.

Part of the enjoyment for me as well is getting to see a man on display in a way that he normally wouldn't be. A lot of culture surrounds the inherent sexuality of the female nude, but you don't really get to see the male side of it. It's rare to find art that has a man nude for nude's sake and expected to be appreciated as art. So I like to indulge and just...look.

 

[Erochic]

Dommes and vulnerability

Ive got a kind of a question...

Guys - if your Domme is feeling sad or vulnerable about something that actually has nothing to do with you, would you rather know about it or not?

I'm off soon to see my sub FWB in a little while, and even though I have been looking forward to it for a while, other things have been going on for me emotionally which means that I'm feeling sad and vulnerable and rather subdued.

We are just casual and haven't really talked deeply about things, though we have a nice friendship and can talk really well about other things - and there's a nice feeling of respect between us.
He knows that I broke up with someone recently because of distance, but he doesn't really know how strong my feelings were or that I'm still struggling.

The sadness is hitting me really hard right now, and I don't know if I can really let go of my feelings during our time together.

But I also don't want to dwell, and it is really not his problem ... And it's kind of tasteless to be talking about someone else.
But I also don't want to feel like I have to be fake in any way or cover up how I'm feeling. And I had been enjoying thinking of things I wanted to do, but my heart is not really in it right now.

But... I also don't know how he is. He stepped back from some pretty hot online lead up flirting and has let me know that there were some family dramas that he was dealing with.
Even though I totally understand and have given him space, that cool down has put a bit of a damper on things.... And he may also not be in a good place either, or he might be just wanting to forget everything else.

 

[Touch_72]

Ive got a kind of a question....

I think like any relationship, it depends on the relationship, right? It's hard to advise what would deepen and what would push away not knowing what the tone of things are exactly and how you two normally interact.

If he's really concerned about you as his Domme on a level beyond the sexual, even if things are casual, I'm sure he'd at least understand and perhaps what you'd need (and possibly him) is a change of pace for the session... something more nurturing, soft and soothing... even if that doesn't involve launching into discussion about what you're feeling and going through.

Let him soothe you. Maybe open up by telling him what you could really use is a change of pace for the session... that you're working through some things not related to him that are emotionally stressing. Have him pamper you... draw you a hot bath, bathe you, massage you... tell him those are your needs at present.

If I were with a Domme and felt any sort of tenderness and care for her, I would not see her needing something nurturing and affectionate to soothe inner turmoil as a weakness. I don't expect her to be inhuman. Honestly, me being me, I'd be willing to listen and talk and open to a sex-less session that's more about her healing. But, him being him, even if he'd feel awkward talking in emotional depth, I'm sure he'd at least understand. And if he doesn't... is he the right sub for you?

 

[Touch_72]

Ive got a kind of a question... .

Oh, and by the way...

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

If he's really concerned about you as his Domme on a level beyond the sexual, even if things are casual, I'm sure he'd at least understand and perhaps what you'd need (and possibly him) is a change of pace for the session... something more nurturing, soft and soothing... even if that doesn't involve launching into discussion about what you're feeling and going through.

Let him soothe you. Maybe open up by telling him what you could really use is a change of pace for the session... that you're working through some things not related to him that are emotionally stressing. Have him pamper you... draw you a hot bath, bathe you, massage you... tell him those are your needs at present.

If I were with a Domme and felt any sort of tenderness and care for her, I would not see her needing something nurturing and affectionate to soothe inner turmoil as a weakness. I don't expect her to be inhuman. Honestly, me being me, I'd be willing to listen and talk and open to a sex-less session that's more about her healing. But, him being him, even if he'd feel awkward talking in emotional depth, I'm sure he'd at least understand. And if he doesn't... is he the right sub for you?

this ^^ you're pretty bomb. you know that, right?

 

[Touch_72]

this ^^ you're pretty bomb. you know that, right?

http://m.memegen.com/nmxzad.jpg

*giggle* I found it hard to answer that one seriously.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

*giggle* I found it hard to answer that one seriously.

mmm, baby!

hahaha!

 

[Erochic]

Oh you guys!
I'm really touched and really amused all at the same time

Thank you

Actually .....that has been the kind of relationship we have had until now... He pampers me and makes me feel good - his apartment and being with him is a nice oasis for me.
Anything more on than that has been what I've wanted to do - and today we were going to mix it up and be more full on because that's what was exciting me.
(So even if *I* had things planned in my mind, he really wasn't expecting them. Though since I restricted his orgasms for the first time in preparation I'd feel bad if he didn't get *something* )

Plus... He always has my favourite chocolate for me, so if we start with that I'm sure things will be nice no matter what


And I just bought some lingerie and bondage cuffs .., so it's not a lost cause

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

chocolate and orgasms? i'm jelly already!

 

[Touch_72]

Oh you guys!
I'm really touched and really amused all at the same time

Thank you

I'm usually good for a laugh... in one way or another.

Now go cuff him to the bed and sit there in your lingerie eating chocolate.

 

[Erochic]

I'm usually good for a laugh... in one way or another.

Now go cuff him to the bed and sit there in your lingerie eating chocolate.

Haha... Good strategy

I've actually did that once - and I have to tell you that orgasming while eating chocolate is pretty awesome

I did forget to bring the chocolates into the bedroom, but apart from that...
Yep that sounds about right
Actually he was pretty stressed himself and out of sorts, but he was understanding about my change of mood, and was very accepting about the possibility of a non-sexual meeting - which was nice and made me feel better.
He kind of misunderstood that I definitely meant that it would be non-sexual and we wouldn't go back to his place and accepted that without a qualm ... And I had to tell him that "well I don't feel *that* bad" ( Which was pretty admirable considering I had made him wait for any kind of orgasm )

But taking the pressure off coupled with chocolates worked well... And we had a very nice time.
We didn't talk much in detail about feelings, but when my emotions bubbled up he took it in his stride and held me very nicely while I cried.


And thank you again for your kind words and good advice. It was really helpful

 

[sheddoctor]

submissive male

Just joined and what a great first thread. I am a submissive male, found out by chance when
after a night out, the hosts wife intrduced me to dominance in the morning. She was horny and
i was in her spare bedroom asleep.

 

[tanyachrs]

My dream? Having a lean, muscled man on his feet in front of me, his iliac crest well formed, lean thighs, mmmyyuuupppp. I love the male form. It's like, you wanna just roll around in men. Enjoy them, savor them.

Mm, yes. My writings, and my fantasies, definitely objectify the male form. I feel a little bad about that because the message that only impressively male figures are worthy of submission is a sucky one, but it's also part of the power exchange. You don't get to judge how I look. I get to judge how you look. I also think a guy keeping his body in prime condition to please his Mistress is hot hot.

And then all of that is just rationalization. I like how it looks and how it makes me need to touch and I want that complete freedom to touch when and where and how I want. Bottom line.

 

[Apollo Wilde]

I have always hated my body. When I was young and thin, my reflection in the mirror seemed grotesquely skeletal. When I gained weight, my stretch marks became proof that I was disgusting. The closest I have ever been to acceptance were those times between and since taking weight back off, I find I can achieve a degree of body apathy, and that also happens to be when I've been more switch anyway. As I've gotten older and my libido seems to have waned somewhat, I find obsessing about sex less seems linked to that; I very rarely really *see* myself in the mirror anymore, just parts; stubble to be shaved, hair that needs to be washed, middle aged acne, ect.

My submission has never been anything more than worthless, and not for lack of trying. It is not an uncommon sentiment, however rarely it may be voiced.

I wanted to respond in two ways:

1. Thank you for sharing; I can tell this is coming from a deeply personal place. I have extreme issues with my body as well for a myriad of reasons. I grew up being told I would never be attractive or that I wasn't good enough. And in a world dominated by "sex sells" and realizing that you have no apparent value on the sexual market, it can take a toll on you. The only time I feel remotely comfortable in my skin is when I'm pushing myself physically.

Sexually, there's still a massive, massive disconnect. It's hard to come forward and admit to being into kink or anything and owning to these problems without worrying about being type-case as a maladjusted deviant, regardless of gender.

2. I'm going to respectfully disagree with tanyachrs on what makes a male sub "worthy." He doesn't have to be a splendid slice of male flesh. What makes a sub special is his heart and his spirit. His mind. Who HE is. Submission to me is a gift of self, and a precious gift at that.

I'm not going to say that I don't find an appeal when a man looks a certain way, but there's so much more to a relationship than just that. Part of that is my own messed up self-esteem, thinking, "This guy is never going to look my way," because I don't fit conventional beauty standards.

I don't believe in any submission being "worthless." It means something to you, otherwise you wouldn't do it. And I don't mean to sound like a crass asshole, but I honestly think the worth is there. You may just have to do some soul-searching to find it. And your reasons for submitting may be completely different from everyone else's - but that does not make them any less valid or make you any less of a person, a man, for having those reasons.

 

[Veroe]

Wow you guys have been having some great conversations without me.

I've always like the dichotomy of the alpha male handsome, fit, has everything going for him...the guy who could reasonably pick up a hot girl at a bar, but instead he kneels before a dominant woman. A woman who cherishes his submission and doesn't denigrate it. A woman who enjoys him like a driver who gets behind the wheel of a lambhorgini or Ferrari or Bugati (where the man is a powerful machine but needs an expert hand to control that power). She knows how to put her foot down on the gas and handle the corners to push him to his maximum potential as her submissive and loves doing it. That's the thing about male submission that turns me on.

Personally the whole sissy and feminization and worthless worm kind of angles to me just turns me away.

I know its different strokes and all that and I don't disrespect that but this is how I feel.

 

[Apollo Wilde]

Wow you guys have been having some great conversations without me.

I've always like the dichotomy of the alpha male handsome, fit, has everything going for him...the guy who could reasonably pick up a hot girl at a bar, but instead he kneels before a dominant woman. A woman who cherishes his submission and doesn't denigrate it. A woman who enjoys him like a driver who gets behind the wheel of a lambhorgini or Ferrari or Bugati (where the man is a powerful machine but needs an expert hand to control that power). She knows how to put her foot down on the gas and handle the corners to push him to his maximum potential as her submissive and loves doing it. That's the thing about male submission that turns me on.

Personally the whole sissy and feminization and worthless worm kind of angles to me just turns me away.

I know its different strokes and all that and I don't disrespect that but this is how I feel.

There's an appeal for me for a dominant man looking for more and looking into his submissive side. There's the appeal of that ideal "alpha", but really, for me, it's more about the expansion of his mind and redefining of life / growing that holds the most appeal for me.

My biggest passion in life is learning - and to be part of that process, I think, is just the best thing.

I will agree that I don't too much care for a sub that's essentially already on his knees / crawling towards you before actually getting to know who you are. I grow concerned about the possibility of abuse. Feminization has always been an interesting trope....The idea is that being treated like a woman is degrading, but women are inherently more powerful? In most instances it seems like some incredible double think that leads me scratching my head.

Personally, there's nothing shameful in wanting to indulge in "feminine" pleasures, because most of that is a cultural perception - i.e., silk boxers vs. silk panties. Both are silk and can be found plain, so what's the big deal? But when it comes off as clearly stereotypical ideals of what it means to be a woman without too much more thought behind that, I get annoyed.

 

[Veroe]

Yeah I know intellectually that I'm not being fair-minded towards guys who do like to indulge in feminine pleasures as you put it, and also I know that what I stated above is full of areas where reality can knock the fantasy ideal of the submitting alpha right on its ass.

Let me say its the archetype I personally enjoy when reading Femdom stories.

I agree there's nothing shameful to being a man who feels the need to see himself as worthless in comparison to his domme, or one who enjoys being made to wear women's clothes, or one who needs the denigration from a stern mistress or any of that. I'm just saying it doesn't turn me personally on.

 

[Apollo Wilde]

... mixed feelings on this entire paragraph. for now I'll respond diplomatically; Lets not villify tanyachrs based on my parsing; she said it's a sucky sentiment, whether or not she went on to defend her right to practice it. That, at least, was accurate.

I may revisit the whole "gift" syrup later. It's something that I once sold too heavily on.

If you'll forgive a more rapid fire point by point breakdown...


Lets borrow the British dictionary definition

worthless
adjective
1.
without practical value or usefulness
2.
without merit; good-for-nothing

My submission was ultimately self destructive, led in both cases to self mutilation and increased instances of suicidal behavior.

So apart from my depressed viewpoint at the time of my undesirable sexuality having been grounded in "unworthy submission," I can also say from a fairly objective standpoint that my submission carried a negative practical value.



By contrast my vanilla marriage to a kink-aware wife has been relatively stabilizing.

No, I don't get to submit, but maybe that's not such a terrible thing.

In this space that I share with people whose dysphoria makes mine seem pleasant, I wouldn't dare to claim that identity denial or modification is functional or that success is probable... I certainly wouldn't claim that i've been all that successful myself, but over time I find it's better to carefully curate my sexual identity than to succumb to what ever whim I obsess over in any given season.

some of that curation has necessarily involved pruning. I no longer self identify as submissive, however much I may wax nostalgic about it. I speak up on behalf of submissive men occasionally... because submissive men are not a talkative group. I hope I might be forgiven any misrepresentation.


Perhaps as much as there was worth in writing for Poe, or any number of other poets who wrung out their soul and died poor and obscure. The worth may be to others later, if I never see it, if it never benefits me or anyone I know, how am I supposed ascribe value to that.



I have done a lot of soul searching and introspection to arrive where I am. I've tired of it of late but I have no doubt there is still much soul searching to come. It seems a perpetual state for me.

I was going to PM you, but here we are!

I'm not villianizing anyone by any means; honest. That's why I said I "respectfully disagreed" - Tanyachrs and I, at least at first blush, seem to have a lot in common.

I'm all about open discussion and dissenting opinions. I don't expect everyone to have the same love affair that I have with Chris Evan's ass, for example, but I'm not going to say they're a waste of space because of not sharing that (seriously, though, he does have an amazing man ass). It's been really great to see everyone express themselves freely, and I definitely don't want to be the wrench that screws that all up.

I responded to you with what I believe submission is - now, is everyone going to subscribe to that? Of course not. And I certainly didn't mean to cast the impression that my opinion overrides your very real experiences. Since you've elaborated on them, it makes a lot more sense, and I apologize if I insulted you. It honestly wasn't my intention.

 

[Erochic]

I don't think the message was that *only* perfect male bodies are worthy of objectification, at least that's not what I got from it - and I certainly don't think that.

I like objectifying a man - but a man doesn't have to be perfect for me to find him attractive.
And if I find him attractive - which I do if I'm sleeping with him - then I want to objectify those things that attract me and get my juices flowing.

It may be smaller things... Like the expression on his face, smile, the contrast of the bondage cuffs against his skin, the little line of hair on his belly, the strength in his shoulders, the line of his flank, his gasps and sighs, the movement of the muscles under his skin as I pull his arms over his head, the strength in his thighs.

I do like men who don't see their own attractiveness - it makes me feel like I've discovered an unappreciated treasure.
For example I like shorter men. Now I can't see the problem in being short - I'm pretty short myself - and I don't actually like tall guys very much (sorry to those who are tall, but I don't find that you fit with me very well, and I hate having to crane my neck), but short guys feel the sting of the preference for tall guys - I just think it's such a waste of good men.
And that goes for guys who find it hard to put on weight, or have acne scars, or have a little extra padding.
I'm not perfect myself, though I am still pretty gorgeous (and modest) and who says that only perfect people can be beautiful .....and happily objectified.


Edit: wow the conversation has been raging in the time it took me to write this around doing other things in my life.
I'll go back and read

 

[eroticspank]

Haha... Good strategy

I've actually did that once - and I have to tell you that orgasming while eating chocolate is pretty awesome

I did forget to bring the chocolates into the bedroom, but apart from that...
Yep that sounds about right
Actually he was pretty stressed himself and out of sorts, but he was understanding about my change of mood, and was very accepting about the possibility of a non-sexual meeting - which was nice and made me feel better.
He kind of misunderstood that I definitely meant that it would be non-sexual and we wouldn't go back to his place and accepted that without a qualm ... And I had to tell him that "well I don't feel *that* bad" ( Which was pretty admirable considering I had made him wait for any kind of orgasm )

But taking the pressure off coupled with chocolates worked well... And we had a very nice time.
We didn't talk much in detail about feelings, but when my emotions bubbled up he took it in his stride and held me very nicely while I cried.


And thank you again for your kind words and good advice. It was really helpful

Yes it looks like Touch_72 did give out some good advice. I am happy that things went well for you. It looks like this guy may be a "true" friend and after
this experience I imagine you are closer. Thanks for sharing...

Sometimes just being human, and open and honest about it can be a turn on for me. It is a feeling of closeness, understanding, and sharing of energy that is the turn on, which can lead to a physical turn on later.

ES

 

[eroticspank]

I don't think the message was that *only* perfect male bodies are worthy of objectification, at least that's not what I got from it - and I certainly don't think that.

I like objectifying a man - but a man doesn't have to be perfect for me to find him attractive.
And if I find him attractive - which I do if I'm sleeping with him - then I want to objectify those things that attract me and get my juices flowing.

It may be smaller things... Like the expression on his face, smile, the contrast of the bondage cuffs against his skin, the little line of hair on his belly, the strength in his shoulders, the line of his flank, his gasps and sighs, the movement of the muscles under his skin as I pull his arms over his head, the strength in his thighs.

I do like men who don't see their own attractiveness - it makes me feel like I've discovered an unappreciated treasure.
For example I like shorter men. Now I can't see the problem in being short - I'm pretty short myself - and I don't actually like tall guys very much (sorry to those who are tall, but I don't find that you fit with me very well, and I hate having to crane my neck), but short guys feel the sting of the preference for tall guys - I just think it's such a waste of good men.
And that goes for guys who find it hard to put on weight, or have acne scars, or have a little extra padding.
I'm not perfect myself, though I am still pretty gorgeous (and modest) and who says that only perfect people can be beautiful .....and happily objectified.

You bring up another good point of discussion, objectification of men. I really enjoy it when a woman objectifies me. In some ways it seems like that is the prerogative of the Dominant woman. She calls the shots and objectifying to get her own juices flowing is just part of the deal. I am happy to oblige wearing what she wants me to wear, bending over, or just being naked for her. Her openness in objectifying me leads to me being more comfortable in doing so to her.

I like what you said about not your typical physical turn ons can also be a point of objectification. I had a gf who liked my unshaven look on my face. My face even though I shave daily still looks like I have not shaven completely and I always felt self conscious about that. She told me she liked the rough look and always rubbed my face prior to and or during sex.

At the same time she had a small amount of fat on her belly creating a small bump when she stood or even while laying down. She did not like it, but I REALLY enjoyed it and it always got me very excited to giving her oral.

In a relationship you see things in each other that are endearing, attractive, and a turn on, not because you saw it in a Erotic movie but because it is on the person you care about. That is what makes it a turn on.

ES

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

My wife has a bit of a belly, and is frankly a somewhat plump woman, but I definitely like aspects of that, such as her nice, large ass. She also has freckles, which she is self-conscious about. I find those to be turn-ons, but she thinks that they're ugly. So I get that about what you're saying. Her imperfections are often very attractive to me.

She accuses me of being a chubby chaser, in fact, because she knows that I have a crush on my boss, too, and my boss is a plus-sized girl as well, not to mention someone here on Lit who is also a nice, buxom woman.

 

[Veroe]

In a way its only fair, ES. Men spend lifetimes objectifying women after all.

I like the Domme objectifying a man to a degree. I'm still trying to put into words just where that line is for me, but I know instantly when it gets crossed when reading Femdom stories on Lit or elsewhere.

 

[Thesexypen]

For me.. I do at times enjoy getting dressed in the fantasy wear. Does it make me feel more powerful or in control..NO. I know I am just as powerful in a pair of sweatpants, and a simple T-Shirt. Or even a burlap bag. But, I do enjoy the cliche garb too. It all falls into a level of self worth, and shows I did take the time with my appearance. Then, I am also a stickler with dressing up and/or presenting yourself well, anytime you are in public or with a lover.

I have never found a lover, who understands me fully. I tend to scare most Men or Women (yes I am Bi) away, with my sexual thoughts and wants. I had the lovers who thought they were Dom or sub, only to be completely let down by them, in the end. Is it nice for someone to say they want to submit to you...yes. But if it's not in their heart, it's just the same as stale boring vanilla sex for me. As soon as I find a weakness in a Dom, I will challenge and/or grow bored with that person. Same as with a sub..doing something to make me happy, is different than just doing something to appease me.

If I may comment here, you seem to definitely be a very powerful woman. I've peeped your picture thread, and you have a "take me as I am" sense of confidence in your look, the way you carry yourself, and most importantly, your eyes are absolutely on fire. I haven't seen that sort of spirit in a woman's eyes in a very long time and whomever gets to experience them in person is for sure lucky.

To the point of this thread, I've also seen many of your comments elsewhere and while you defy being put into a particular box, or conforming to any sort of convention. It's very clear you know your wants and desires, and that--whether dominant or submissive--is a sort of sexy appeal that is very hard to ignore.

I haven't spent much time trying to put myself into a category or assign a label, but I guess it's easiest to say I don't consider myself submissive. It doesn't mean that the converse is necessarily true and therefore I must be a domme. I just want to please a lover first and foremost, no matter her mood or leaning that day, so maybe there is some area of gray where a lot of us fit.

Thank you for stepping into things and offering your perspective. You are without a doubt a challenge and I imagine electrifying to be around.