The Day The Republican Party Will Live To Regret...

[SpiritKitty]

Originally posted by ruminator
You're right. Nothing to worry about.
Plenty of options out there for those with the opportunity to choose.
It is easier to say that's the way it's always been and that's the way it should be.

Did you happen to see the overthrow of Parliament in Georgia this morning? They had it live, but had to cut away to an MJ update.

whoa...I didn't say that there were plenty of options. i was just repeating what i had heard on the television. give me a break, i don't know anything about this bill. i was merely commenting on the apathy of the general populace.

sheesh...

Edited to add: they said that Bush was the one to say there were alternate options. isn't that a surprise?

 

[KID ROCK1]

What is source of your dislike on this bill? The democrats wanted a medicare drug benefit, they just wanted it bigger than what was proposed. No doubt they'll be able to expand it further in the future.

My dislike is that it's transfering billions of more dollars to the elderly, the richest segment of our society. If we've got lots and lots of extra money (we don't) we should be putting the money into kids programs. Kids are the poorest segment of society they need the money more than the elderly. Education needs more money, early start programs, inner city programs, etc. would benefit society much more than giving away more money to the elderly.

I have nothing against elderly people, I'll be one myself in 30 or 40 years, but they've had their whole lives to save, they often have offspring who are willing to help and they are resourceful. If an elderly person and his/her whole family destitute, I can see providing some sort of last-chance welfare, but this program is a wholesale $ transfer.

What is your grip with it?

What in the heck leads you to think that the elderly are the richest people in the USA...We're talking age 65 and older, not 50 and older...If the elderly are so rich, then they wouldn't need a drug benefit but unfortuantely drug costs have caused so many elderly folks to choose between food and drugs...

What don't I like about the republican bill?

#1...Its over 1200 pages long...That in itself makes me think its full of confusing loopholes and pork...

#2...It prohibits re-importation of drugs...

#3...It prohibits the govt. from negotiating prices...

#4...It has a donut hole where people will pay premiums for no coverage...

#5...It has no ceiling to cap the cost of this bill...CBO has said this bill could skyrocket in costs...

#6...It doesn't go in effect until 2006...Alot of desperate elderly who need help NOW will end up dying first...

#7...It promotes privitization of healthcare instead of a government guareenteed entitlement...We all know how great PPO's and HMO's have been...

#8...It will cause employers to drop retired workers from health care retirement plans that were promised to employees who worked their ass off...

#9...It was brought to the floor under the cover of darkness and passed while people were sleeping...If this bill was so great then it would have been debated and passed during PRIME-TIME, not sleepy-time...

#10...The conference report of this bill was drafted with no democrats allowed in the room, while the lobbyist for the pharmecutical companies were allowed in the room...

Need I go on?

~i~

 

[KID ROCK1]

Pssst...not that many of them voted Republican in the first place...the elderly are one of the democrats core constituancies.

Are you sure, the AARP represents 40 million seniors and the AARP endorsed the republican bill...

One other reason I don't like the bill,

Newt Gingrich endorsed it too...

~i~

 

[SpiritKitty]

is there a non-partial summary of this bill anywhere? the whole bill? and what riders are attached to this if any?

 

[re_Mark_s]

Nannnannna <smug

I know as a Canadian that I

agggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!

*chest!!! pound!!!*

see ya


Mark

 

[Le Jacquelope]

whoa...I didn't say that there were plenty of options. i was just repeating what i had heard on the television. give me a break, i don't know anything about this bill. i was merely commenting on the apathy of the general populace.

sheesh...

Edited to add: they said that Bush was the one to say there were alternate options. isn't that a surprise?

Oh you haven't heard anything yet.

Some people claim there are private insurance companies that will provide coverage for people who were disabled from childhood and cannot earn their own living. Yes, that's right, private insurance geared to providing sustainance for invalids even though they've never been able to pay premiums.

You'll hear all kinds of optionsscams like that cropping up across the land if Medicare is done away with.

 

[KID ROCK1]

is there a non-partial summary of this bill anywhere? the whole bill? and what riders are attached to this if any?

Well, if ya don't wanna take my word for why the bill sux, then feel free to read all 1200 pages yourself,

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Type in bill "HR1" in the appropriate place and there you have it...

~i~

 

[KID ROCK1]

Nannnannna <smug

I know as a Canadian that I

agggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!

*chest!!! pound!!!*

see ya


Mark

^^^ Future star here at Lit...

~i~

 

[Roseanne Rosannadanna]

Hmmm... the elderly vs the kids... I can certainly feel ya on the need to prioritize children. Just as long as this doesn't turn into a game of lifeboat ethics.

And I know both rich and poor elderly people alike. And Medicare also cares for the disabled.

What I want to see addressed, is the fact that seniors retiring today are said to face an average of $100,000 in out of pocket medical expenses over the rest of their lives. That ought to render plenty of well to do seniors destitute.

my grandfather had a stroke in December last year, he was in the hospital for 8 months, his medical bills have run over $500,000.00
medicare covered about 70% of the expenses, and the supplemental ins. picked up another 10%. They're paying about $1000.00/week for home health care now, which isn't covered. Thankfully, my grandparents can manage this.

My other grandmother is 85 and lives on a social security check of $405.00 per month and medicare only covers 2 of her prescriptions. On her $405.00 check, she must buy groceries, pay her utilities, pay for other prescriptions, pay car insurance, taxes and insurance on her house, etc. I don't know how anyone could live on such a small income and our family does a lot to support her. But there are elderly people out there who don't have the means for financial assistance who need help.
A stroke, bypass surgery...any major medical problems can pretty much financially devastate the elderly. They can't very well go out and work to support themselves. I believe the elderly need a lot of help.

 

[KID ROCK1]

my grandfather had a stroke in December last year, he was in the hospital for 8 months, his medical bills have run over $500,000.00
medicare covered about 70% of the expenses, and the supplemental ins. picked up another 10%. They're paying about $1000.00/week for home health care now, which isn't covered. Thankfully, my grandparents can manage this.

My other grandmother is 85 and lives on a social security check of $405.00 per month and medicare only covers 2 of her prescriptions. On her $405.00 check, she must buy groceries, pay her utilities, pay for other prescriptions, pay car insurance, taxes and insurance on her house, etc. I don't know how anyone could live on such a small income and our family does a lot to support her. But there are elderly people out there who don't have the means for financial assistance who need help.
A stroke, bypass surgery...any major medical problems can pretty much financially devastate the elderly. They can't very well go out and work to support themselves. I believe the elderly need a lot of help.

^^^

**Golf Clap**

Now this newbie knows what she's talkin about...Props to you and feel free to contribute more often...

KR1...

~i~

 

[SpiritKitty]

Originally posted by KID ROCK1
Well, if ya don't wanna take my word for why the bill sux, then feel free to read all 1200 pages yourself,

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Type in bill "HR1" in the appropriate place and there you have it...

~i~

now why would i take your word? nothing personal, luv, but i do try to make my own decisions based on what unbiased facts that ican find. i don't even know if you live in the states. if you do, then your opinion is not unbiased. don't misunderstand, the problem is that when it comes to politics, i don't trust anyone. not no one, not no how.

hey you brits out there. you guys are always quick to analyse the situation over here. any of you know if there is a summary of this bill in cyberspace? i read quickly but i don't want to deal with 1200 pages of gibberish.

 

[ruminator]

now why would i take your word? nothing personal, luv, but i do try to make my own decisions based on what unbiased facts that ican find. i don't even know if you live in the states. if you do, then your opinion is not unbiased. don't misunderstand, the problem is that when it comes to politics, i don't trust anyone. not no one, not no how.

hey you brits out there. you guys are always quick to analyse the situation over here. any of you know if there is a summary of this bill in cyberspace? i read quickly but i don't want to deal with 1200 pages of gibberish.

How could a summary not be accused of bias? Actually there are several other important disadvantages omitted from the short list cited in the earlier post.

MTB regulation, liability and elimination is another critical point in pending legislation.

The media is owned by the companies that are directly affected by all of these critical issues. They will not spend much, if any time distributing self incriminating but legitimate news.
That is the advantage of C-Span. Although it has no news, it is the actual participants on stage. It is up to the viewer to decide the sincerity.

Internet news sources are the least biased. I search both sides and the middle, but having an opinion obviously disqualifies me as biased.

 

[KID ROCK1]

now why would i take your word? nothing personal, luv, but i do try to make my own decisions based on what unbiased facts that ican find. i don't even know if you live in the states. if you do, then your opinion is not unbiased. don't misunderstand, the problem is that when it comes to politics, i don't trust anyone. not no one, not no how.

hey you brits out there. you guys are always quick to analyse the situation over here. any of you know if there is a summary of this bill in cyberspace? i read quickly but i don't want to deal with 1200 pages of gibberish.

A couple of comments,

#1...I live in Texas, ask around, its no secret and its the only "Lone Star State" in the union...

#2...I listed 10 things that "I" don't like about the bill cuz "I" was asked why I oppose the bill...It will be biased since I don't like the bill...

~i~

 

[bra_man69]

if you read the bill the 1st $4000.00 you have to pay what a fucking joke that bill is

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Re: Re: Re: The Day The Republican Party Will Live To Regret...

Bread and circuses, the modern opiate of the masses.

Bread and circuses are the opposite of a societal opiate (everyone always gets the meaning of that phrase wrong), and the Republicans, reprehensible as they are, did nothing illegal, and people voted what they wanted to vote, more likely from increased awareness of the consequence of their actions, and less likely because of a Bush scolding.

Kid, I'm going to give it to you and say this, even though it will hurt me like an open sore later, but you've started some interesting threads lately.

 

[KID ROCK1]

if you read the bill the 1st $4000.00 you have to pay what a fucking joke that bill is

It is a joke and thats why the bill has more to do with privitizing medicare than it does providing an actual benerfit for seniors...

BTW, I hate your AV...

^^^ I'm a Texas Longhorn...

~i~

 

[SpiritKitty]

Originally posted by KID ROCK1
A couple of comments,

#1...I live in Texas, ask around, its no secret and its the only "Lone Star State" in the union...

#2...I listed 10 things that "I" don't like about the bill cuz "I" was asked why I oppose the bill...It will be biased since I don't like the bill...

~i~

awww, now see. i said it was nothing personal. and of course you'll be biased. more than likely i will be too, once i get an idea of it. but i want to be biased all on my own. hell, i'm pretty much biased against anything that has bush's approval. but i was trying to be fair-minded.

are you aware of any riders that may be attached to this thing? (that's a question requesting information.) would be interested in knowing.

 

[ruminator]

Of course the action taken is probably legal. I assume it is just equal to other power moves that have occurred in our system in the past. I understand lobbying influence and conflict of interest being an integral part of our political process.

I think the merits of "checks and balance" are dwindling and if this is the case, it is only a matter of time before it becomes more obvious.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I think the merits of "checks and balance" are dwindling and if this is the case, it is only a matter of time before it becomes more obvious.

That is more to the point, and more illuminating regarding the true troubles that plague the system.

 

[KID ROCK1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Day The Republican Party Will Live To Regret...

Bread and circuses are the opposite of a societal opiate (everyone always gets the meaning of that phrase wrong), and the Republicans, reprehensible as they are, did nothing illegal, and people voted what they wanted to vote, more likely from increased awareness of the consequence of their actions, and less likely because of a Bush scolding.

### While it may not be illegal, its still an abuse of power to hold a vote open for three hours until a desired outcome was achieved...In 99.9% of the cases, a vote ends with about a ten second grace period in which the chairman asks, "Is there anyone still wishing to vote or to change their vote" and the gavel is dropped...A three hour grace period of arm-twisting is anti-democratic... ###

Kid, I'm going to give it to you and say this, even though it will hurt me like an open sore later, but you've started some interesting threads lately.

^^^ If I ever decide to use a sig in the future, I reserve the right to use this one...

~i~

 

[ruminator]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Day The Republican Party Will Live To Regret...

^^^ If I ever decide to use a sig in the future, I reserve the right to use this one...

~i~

an unsolicited biased request. Could you at least consider using the small font?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Feel free.

Regarding "abuse of power"....the reason parties are permitted to hold a majority in Congress is because this gives the voters a chance to make a decision about who gets to have the upper hand in the legislative branch. I don't see it so much as an abuse of power as much as I see it as a vigorouslly applied use of a Constitutionally granted advantage. The sort of advantage that always seems unfair to the party currently in the minority.

Still, checks and balances. Three hours is too long to wait for the gavel. We need a new rule here, Mr. Chairman.

I'm I seconded?

 

[ruminator]

aye

 

[KID ROCK1]

aye

"Is there a suffiecient second",

^^^ Aye...

Yo, I just noticed you're a fan of Mr. Peabody...Classic cartoon...

~i~

 

[Le Jacquelope]

^^^

**Golf Clap**

Now this newbie knows what she's talkin about...Props to you and feel free to contribute more often...

KR1...

~i~

Hah. I've seen an elderly widow hit with medical bills so steep she had to sell her house and live in an apartment with her grandson, a sailor boy from San Diego who was living off-base. She was hoping to keep that house and pass it on. I'm probably the only Gen-X'er on earth who would be horrified by such a thing.

BTW on a side note, how many of you fine readers know what happens in America if you need an organ transplant and you cannot afford it?