The Economy

[dmallord]

No disagreement. It’s a tax cut bill, not a poverty bill or entitlement expansion bill.

It's projected to increase the national debt, not lower it. Even Republicans say so.

It should go without saying that those who pay little to no federal income tax will receive little to no benefit from any kind of tax cut legislation, and that includes the BBB. For context, roughly 30% of filers today pay nothing. Filers making less than $34,600 who do owe taxes will only save about $150. Those making between $34,602 and $66,800 will save an average of $750.

Just worth noting here that the US Census Bureau estimates a family of four pays on average $1,080 per month for groceries.

That would mean:

• Those who do not pay income taxes still face local, state, and sales taxes without relief. Compound this with those getting the SNAP and other benefits that get cut for them and they go south on this bill, not benefit by it. Cost of groceries go up not down for them.
• The hourly tip earners have a cap on their tips, and it gets phased out in time–not permanent like the wealthy benefit reapers get.
• Those $34,600 earners get less than a week's worth of groceries in reduction.
• Those $68,800 earners get less than a month's worth of groceries.

Nothing big or beautiful there at all.

I also have no disagreement with your assertion about tighter Medicaid and SNAP eligibility requirements. The Medicaid eligibility provisions will impact able-bodied adults between the ages of 19 and 64 who are unwilling to to work, volunteer, or pursue education/job training for 20 hours per week (with exemptions for parents, caregivers, people with disabilities, and certain hardship cases), undocumented migrants, double dippers, and noncompliant recipients who get weeded out due to more frequent compliance checks.

Undocumented migrants do not receive Medicaid or SNAP. There are provisions for emergency medical help at hospitals, including humanitarian aid, that is available to all citizens, even if they cannot afford emergency medical treatment.

Who are the double-dippers?

With the DOGE firings, who is left to handle those more frequent compliance checks? There are no plans in place to address how to determine if those individuals are complying. There are fewer government employees now than before. How's that going to work with fewer staff and defunded resources?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Who are the double-dippers?

With the DOGE firings, who is left to handle those more frequent compliance checks? There are no plans in place to address how to determine if those individuals are complying. There are fewer government employees now than before. How's that going to work with fewer staff and defunded resources?

Meet the Medicaid Double-Dippers

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) reported late last week that 1.2 million Americans last year were enrolled in Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program in two or more states. The agency worked with software engineers to review enrollment data, and it found another 1.6 million enrolled in both Medicaid and an ObamaCare plan with taxpayer subsidies in 2024.

This is no great surprise, given that the Biden Administration’s policy was willful ignorance about whether folks enrolled in these programs were eligible or continuing to need public assistance. To take one example: The Biden Administration banned states from checking Medicaid eligibility more than once a year, though many people need the program only as a temporary safety net.

The GOP budget bill asks states to check twice a year whether able-bodied adults enrolled in Medicaid under ObamaCare are still eligible. On the issue of Medicaid enrollment in multiple states, as Paragon Health Institute explains, the GOP bill asks states to “use reliable, existing data sources—including address updates from managed care organizations—to track where beneficiaries live.”

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/meet-th...99951?st=84v1xa&reflink=article_copyURL_share

 

[schism666]

Meet the Medicaid Double-Dippers

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) reported late last week that 1.2 million Americans last year were enrolled in Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program in two or more states. The agency worked with software engineers to review enrollment data, and it found another 1.6 million enrolled in both Medicaid and an ObamaCare plan with taxpayer subsidies in 2024.

This is no great surprise, given that the Biden Administration’s policy was willful ignorance about whether folks enrolled in these programs were eligible or continuing to need public assistance. To take one example: The Biden Administration banned states from checking Medicaid eligibility more than once a year, though many people need the program only as a temporary safety net.

The GOP budget bill asks states to check twice a year whether able-bodied adults enrolled in Medicaid under ObamaCare are still eligible. On the issue of Medicaid enrollment in multiple states, as Paragon Health Institute explains, the GOP bill asks states to “use reliable, existing data sources—including address updates from managed care organizations—to track where beneficiaries live.”

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/meet-th...99951?st=84v1xa&reflink=article_copyURL_share

as fucked as doge and ice have been, you trust this dimwitted administration to fix this problem?

reminds me of when you magatards were screaming, "DEATH PANELS!"

 

[Pad_Foot]

Come on now people!
Didn’t we all know that Trickle Down Economics works!
It not like the rich just keep getting richer!!
Revel in the Golden Showers coming your way. You can eat cake as it all washes over you

S h e e p !!

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

as fucked as doge and ice have been, you trust this dimwitted administration to fix this problem?

reminds me of when you magatards were screaming, "DEATH PANELS!"

Asking states to monitor their Medicaid enrollment records twice a year for compliance in order to save hundreds of billions of dollars is too much to ask? You left wingers love pissing away taxpayer’s hard earned dollars.

 

[schism666]

Asking states to monitor their Medicaid enrollment records twice a year for compliance in order to save hundreds of billions of dollars is too much to ask? You left wingers love pissing away taxpayer’s hard earned dollars.

hundreds of billions? doge math don't math.

drugs are down 1,000%!

derp.

 

[JohnEngelman]

I really expected a balanced budget and a major effort to cut govt spending and pay down federal debt, not this BBB bullshit.

Republicans have not cared about balancing the budget since President Reagan made the rich richer by tripling the national debt.

 

[KateAt55]

Dead husband left me with good investments.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

hundreds of billions? doge math don't math.

Ok. I was being too conservative by saying “hundreds of billions.” Actually the Medicaid eligibility requirements will yield more like a trillion in savings over ten years according to the CBO.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Dead husband left me with good investments.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Republicans have not cared about balancing the budget since President Reagan made the rich richer by tripling the national debt.

Democratic President Clinton and Republican House Speaker Gingrich crafted some balanced budgets. Lots of nuances and caveats, but it’s a fact that Clinton told Americans that “the era of big government is over.” He and his GOP colleague Gingrich broke new ground in American politics by agreeing and passing legislation linking work to government assistance.

Unfortunately, that spirit of fiscal responsibility was short lived. Nobody can pretend that either party cares about deficits, and we’ve all seen the expansion of government spending, especially entitlement programs, in this century.

 

[schism666]

Ok. I was being too conservative by saying “hundreds of billions.” Actually the Medicaid eligibility requirements will yield more like a trillion in savings over ten years according to the CBO.

will we get sharks with freaking laser beams too?

 

[dmallord]

Asking states to monitor their Medicaid enrollment records twice a year for compliance in order to save hundreds of billions of dollars is too much to ask? You left wingers love pissing away taxpayer’s hard earned dollars.

Your data checks out as far as I could see. I got similar numbers when I searched for data.

Now, asking and monitoring are good things. Who's adding the manpower to facilitate that monitoring, and who bears the cost of doing so? Again, with the cuts by DOGE, the resources are lacking.

 

[Lazaran]

Your data checks out as far as I could see. I got similar numbers when I searched for data.

Now, asking and monitoring are good things. Who's adding the manpower to facilitate that monitoring, and who bears the cost of doing so? Again, with the cuts by DOGE, the resources are lacking.

Um, it isn’t just the states that are being tasked with doubling oversight, it’s also the individuals who will have to double their efforts to comply with eligibility requirements - with the likelihood of either the states or the individuals fucking up doubling as well, which suggests the potential for a doubling in the loss of coverage for eligible individuals.



The fact is, this has been tried before with just a couple of states, and the results were suboptimal. The states AND individuals fucked up more often, and there were coverage losses for eligible individuals accompanied by actual physical suffering from lack of medical care.

Imagine how this is going to play out now that it is nationwide…



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Your data checks out as far as I could see. I got similar numbers when I searched for data.

Now, asking and monitoring are good things. Who's adding the manpower to facilitate that monitoring, and who bears the cost of doing so? Again, with the cuts by DOGE, the resources are lacking.

States and counties are responsible for eligibility tracking so DOGE cuts have no bearing on that. Moreover, monitoring to curb fraud and abuse isn’t something new, different, or a major expense item. They’re simply being asked to cross reference databases more frequently for the purpose of scaling back the waste and abuse that CMS has reported.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Um, it isn’t just the states that are being tasked with doubling oversight, it’s also the individuals who will have to double their efforts to comply with eligibility requirements - with the likelihood of either the states or the individuals fucking up doubling as well, which suggests the potential for a doubling in the loss of coverage for eligible individuals.



The fact is, this has been tried before with just a couple of states, and the results were suboptimal. The states AND individuals fucked up more often, and there were coverage losses for eligible individuals accompanied by actual physical suffering from lack of medical care.

Imagine how this is going to play out now that it is nationwide…



We. Told. Them. So.

2.8 million people are getting benefits they’re not eligible for, costing an estimated trillion dollars over ten years, and you’re arguing that nothing should be done to correct the problem because it’s too hard. Brilliant.

 

[dmallord]

States and counties are responsible for eligibility tracking so DOGE cuts have no bearing on that. Moreover, monitoring to curb fraud and abuse isn’t something new, different, or a major expense item. They’re simply being asked to cross reference databases more frequently for the purpose of scaling back the waste and abuse that CMS has reported.

Sure, it's not something new. Simply asked is not what's happening. Nothing is simple about it, nor are the Feds asking; they are mandating.

The states have been monitoring, but the federal systems are spread across numerous federal databases that are not interconnected and are not easily accessible to the states. That needs to be fixed before better control over fraud and abuse can be achieved.

States are not responsible for the federal databases. But DOGE did axe staff and funds to update and modernize those systems.

It will take a combined effort by the Fed and states to close those loopholes. So far, it seems the Feds are pushing down that responsibility while adding more complications to applying for those funds by citizens who need them.

The BBB has significant gaps in its procedures that you can drive a Mack truck through. It's going to take good management to fix it, and I don't see that level of competency in the folks Trump's team has hired so far.

 

[Lazaran]

2.8 million people are getting benefits they’re not eligible for, costing an estimated trillion dollars over ten years, and you’re arguing that nothing should be done to correct the problem because it’s too hard. Brilliant.

BabyBoobs (a total POS GASLIGHTER / LIAR) just throws out numbers with zero citations or context.



Meanwhile:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/02/us/politics/trump-big-beautiful-bill-facts.html



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

BabyBoobs (a total POS GASLIGHTER / LIAR) just throws out numbers with zero citations or context.



Meanwhile:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/02/us/politics/trump-big-beautiful-bill-facts.html



We. Told. Them. So.

Nonsense. The CMS double dipping numbers I cited verbatim came from the WSJ and I provided a link.

 

[Rightguide]

US Consumers Now More Optimistic, Ending 5 Straight Months Of Decline In Confidence Index​

Ireland OwensReporter
May 27, 202512:06 PM ET

U.S. consumer confidence bounced back in May ending five straight months of decline and beating economists’ expectations.
The Consumer Confidence Index increased by 12.3 points in May to 98.0, up from 85.7 in April, according to a report released Tuesday by The Conference Board. This notably marked the first increase in consumer confidence in five months.

The Conference Board’s Present Situation Index, which is based on consumers’ outlook on current business and job market conditions, increased 4.8 points in May to 135.9. Meanwhile, the Expectations Index, which is based on consumers’ short-term outlook for income, business and job market conditions, jumped 17.4 points to 72.8 in the same month.

“Consumer confidence improved in May after five consecutive months of decline,” Stephanie Guichard, a senior economist at the Conference Board, wrote in the press release. “The rebound was already visible before the May 12 U.S.-China trade deal but gained momentum afterwards. The monthly improvement was largely driven by consumer expectations as all three components of the Expectations Index — business conditions, employment prospects, and future income — rose from their April lows. Consumers were less pessimistic about business conditions and job availability over the next six months and regained optimism about future income prospects. Consumers’ assessments of the present situation also improved.”

https://dailycaller.com/2025/05/27/consumers-optimistic-ending-months-decline-confidence-index/

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Sure, it's not something new. Simply asked is not what's happening. Nothing is simple about it, nor are the Feds asking; they are mandating.

The states have been monitoring, but the federal systems are spread across numerous federal databases that are not interconnected and are not easily accessible to the states. That needs to be fixed before better control over fraud and abuse can be achieved.

States are not responsible for the federal databases. But DOGE did axe staff and funds to update and modernize those systems.

It will take a combined effort by the Fed and states to close those loopholes. So far, it seems the Feds are pushing down that responsibility while adding more complications to applying for those funds by citizens who need them.

The BBB has significant gaps in its procedures that you can drive a Mack truck through. It's going to take good management to fix it, and I don't see that level of competency in the folks Trump's team has hired so far.

The federal systems pertaining to Medicaid you’re referring to presumably fall within the purview of CMS. According to the WSJ, about 300 positions representing 4% of the CMS workforce were cut. I can’t find any specifics about what kinds of jobs were cut, but CMS has broad responsibilities and many job functions that span both Medicare and Medicaid. It’s doubtful that all 300 positions were related to the computer systems required for monitoring Medicaid eligibility. It might be more than zero, but it’s not 300.

It would take quite a stretch of the imagination to believe that in the age of artificial intelligence, the agency cannot effectively manage Medicaid eligibility enforcement because of a 4% reduction in force across the entire organization. Even if 300 positions did make the difference between saving a trillion dollars over 10 years or not, it would foolish to not restore them if that were necessary to eliminate 2.8 million ineligible beneficiaries.

 

[ChinoMoreno]

 

[ChinoMoreno]

ending five straight months of decline

What happened 5 months ago

 

[Lazaran]

Nonsense. The CMS double dipping numbers I cited verbatim came from the WSJ and I provided a link.

BabyBoobs (a total POS GASLIGHTER / LIAR) is conflating concerns about nationwide implementation of work requirements (in the few states where it has been tried it has been a disaster) leading to millions of low income Americans losing their health insurance and suffering actual physical harm, and some accounting errors that the DOGE cuts will likely make MOAR difficult to track. (See also: DonOld & the MAGAt republicans’ cuts to the IRS which will make it harder to track tax cheats / scofflaws).

BabyBoobs (a MAGAt republican) wants MOAR bureaucracy when it comes to Medicaid, SNAP, etc, for low income workers & the poor, but LESS oversight when it comes to corporations & rich tax cheats.

Priorities, amirite.



BabyBoobs



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[ChinoMoreno]

Donald Trump’s Scotland golf trip comes at incredible cost to U.S. taxpayers

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2025/...-come-at-incredible-cost-to-us-taxpayers.html

The president’s trip, which it said will feature him participating in a marketing photo opportunity at his golf resort in Aberdeen, will cost taxpayers “at least $10 million.”

Trump is currently visiting his Turnberry resort where he is expected to golf on Saturday. He is then expected to head to Aberdeenshire to open the new 18-hole golf course.