The Economy

[dmallord]

I encourage you to compare before and after tax tables for middle class taxpayers, and educate yourself on other tax advantages in the bill, including AMT thresholds, standard deduction, child care tax credits, social security deduction (on top of standard deduction), tax exemptions for tips and OT, and other provisions.

Per analysis by the Tax Policy Center, filers with income between $67K and $119K will save on average $1,780. Filers between $119K and $217K will save $3,460. Those are not rich people, and those are meaningful savings.

Fair enough on the middle-class cuts, but that's not the whole story. The lower wage earners aren't the winners in the BBB, the middle wage earners get some relief, and those classified as wealthy stand to gain the most from the tax bill, or Big Beautiful Bill.

About half the country falls into what Pew defines as middle class—roughly $48K to $145K a year. And yes, there are some solid tax savings in there. But we’re ignoring the 29% of Americans earning under $48K. Most of them are looking at cuts under $400, and that’s before factoring in reduced access to programs like Medicaid and SNAP, which this bill also slashes.

That’s not a win—it’s a shell game.

The top 20% of earners, considered rich by Pew, walk away with the most significant slice of the pie — individuals pulling in more than $145,000. So while the bill throws a bone to the middle class, it’s the upper crust getting the steak dinner. And the bottom wage earners are getting screwed, and the support for medical they have relied upon is going down the drain to fund the upper-level gains. A nice, big, and beautiful bill for the wealthy, according to Pew.

We ought to be honest about who gains and who gets left holding the bag. The BBB isn't beautiful. Some gain in savings, while nearly 30% stand to lose and are the least able to afford the losses. A significant number of those individuals are in the red states. So, are we making America Great Again?

 

[Rockymtnman]

$3400 savings on 200k is .017%. And is not a lot of money for a person making that type of money. Still better than a kick in the nuts but it’s certainly not life changing. I’d rather see someone making 50k or less get that and it will go back into the economy. According to the google only 14.4% of households in the us make 200k+. Yet 32.3% make under 50k. They could use it more and it would help the economy more.

 

[Lazaran]

$3400 savings on 200k is .017%. And is not a lot of money for a person making that type of money. Still better than a kick in the nuts but it’s certainly not life changing. I’d rather see someone making 50k or less get that and it will go back into the economy. According to the google only 14.4% of households in the us make 200k+. Yet 32.3% make under 50k. They could use it more and it would help the economy more.

And seeing how Trump’s tariffs are raising prices, which hits low income individuals hardest…



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Fair enough on the middle-class cuts, but that's not the whole story. The lower wage earners aren't the winners in the BBB, the middle wage earners get some relief, and those classified as wealthy stand to gain the most from the tax bill, or Big Beautiful Bill.

About half the country falls into what Pew defines as middle class—roughly $48K to $145K a year. And yes, there are some solid tax savings in there. But we’re ignoring the 29% of Americans earning under $48K. Most of them are looking at cuts under $400, and that’s before factoring in reduced access to programs like Medicaid and SNAP, which this bill also slashes.

That’s not a win—it’s a shell game.

The top 20% of earners, considered rich by Pew, walk away with the most significant slice of the pie — individuals pulling in more than $145,000. So while the bill throws a bone to the middle class, it’s the upper crust getting the steak dinner. And the bottom wage earners are getting screwed, and the support for medical they have relied upon is going down the drain to fund the upper-level gains. A nice, big, and beautiful bill for the wealthy, according to Pew.

We ought to be honest about who gains and who gets left holding the bag. The BBB isn't beautiful. Some gain in savings, while nearly 30% stand to lose and are the least able to afford the losses. A significant number of those individuals are in the red states. So, are we making America Great Again?

No disagreement. It’s a tax cut bill, not a poverty bill or entitlement expansion bill.

It should go without saying that those who pay little to no federal income tax will receive little to no benefit from any kind of tax cut legislation, and that includes the BBB. For context, roughly 30% of filers today pay nothing. Filers making less than $34,600 who do owe taxes will only save about $150. Those making between $34,602 and $66,800 will save an average of $750.

I also have no disagreement with your assertion about tighter Medicaid and SNAP eligibility requirements. The Medicaid eligibility provisions will impact able-bodied adults between the ages of 19 and 64 who are unwilling to to work, volunteer, or pursue education/job training for 20 hours per week (with exemptions for parents, caregivers, people with disabilities, and certain hardship cases), undocumented migrants, double dippers, and noncompliant recipients who get weeded out due to more frequent compliance checks.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

WSJ 7/25

Trump’s Tariffs Are Being Picked Up by Corporate America

Neither consumers nor foreign countries are assuming much of the tariff burden. At least not yet.

“The U.S. has collected an additional $55 billion in tariffs this year. Corporate America has largely shouldered the bill.”


https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/t...fd9bd?st=XBxyeT&reflink=article_copyURL_share

 

[Hel_Books]

I encourage you to compare before and after tax tables for middle class taxpayers, and educate yourself on other tax advantages in the bill, including AMT thresholds, standard deduction, child care tax credits, social security deduction (on top of standard deduction), tax exemptions for tips and OT, and other provisions.

Per analysis by the Tax Policy Center, filers with income between $67K and $119K will save on average $1,780. Filers between $119K and $217K will save $3,460. Those are not rich people, and those are meaningful savings.

Sigh. I encourage you to find the figures on "tax relief" for the people who aren't middle-class. Does the bill give a huge break to millionaires and billionaires, much smaller "meaningful savings" for the middle-class and . . . Medicaid cuts for the poor? (It would help if you provided a link, to reference your figures.)

I also encourage you to find out what's going to happen to your country's national debt under President Trump's plan. "Meaningful savings" can be extinguished quickly in times of high inflation.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Sigh. I encourage you to find the figures on "tax relief" for the people who aren't middle-class. Does the bill give a huge break to millionaires and billionaires, much smaller "meaningful savings" for the middle-class and . . . Medicaid cuts for the poor? (It would help if you provided a link, to reference your figures.)

I also encourage you to find out what's going to happen to your country's national debt under President Trump's plan. "Meaningful savings" can be extinguished quickly in times of high inflation.

See #2460

 

[Hel_Books]

WSJ 7/25

Trump’s Tariffs Are Being Picked Up by Corporate America

Neither consumers nor foreign countries are assuming much of the tariff burden. At least not yet.

I especially enjoy the "not yet" part! Presumably corporations are assuming TACO. They're taking a temporary hit so as not to alienate their customers. They'd also stockpiled a lot in advance of the tariff implementation.

Don't get me wrong, maybe tariffs will reduce dependence on nasty places like Communist China, but the chaotic way President Trump is handling things (why beat up on countries like Canada or Lesotho?) are an indication this is simply an own goal by a player who doesn't understand the game.

 

[Hel_Books]

No disagreement. It’s a tax cut bill, not a poverty bill or entitlement expansion bill.

It should go without saying that those who pay little to no federal income tax will receive little to no benefit from any kind of tax cut legislation, and that includes the BBB. For context, roughly 30% of filers today pay nothing. Filers making less than $34,600 who do owe taxes will only save about $150. Those making between $34,602 and $66,800 will save an average of $750.

I also have no disagreement with your assertion about tighter Medicaid and SNAP eligibility requirements. The Medicaid eligibility provisions will impact able-bodied adults between the ages of 19 and 64 who are unwilling to to work, volunteer, or pursue education/job training for 20 hours per week (with exemptions for parents, caregivers, people with disabilities, and certain hardship cases), undocumented migrants, double dippers, and noncompliant recipients who get weeded out due to more frequent compliance checks.

So, there you go! Big giveaways to the rich, considerably less for the middle-class and, for the poor, nothing.

And there's a bonus: increased bureaucracy so the poor get less help from the programs designed specifically for them. Oh, yes, they claim it's the "bad guys" who don't "deserve" medical care who are being "weeded out" but in reality it's just hassling needy people so their benefits get denied. Penny-wise and pound-foolish: they show up in your hospital A&E departments and the total costs (whoever ends up paying) are even higher. It's no wonder the USA pays so much for healthcare and gets so little.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I especially enjoy the "not yet" part! Presumably corporations are assuming TACO. They're taking a temporary hit so as not to alienate their customers. They'd also stockpiled a lot in advance of the tariff implementation.

Don't get me wrong, maybe tariffs will reduce dependence on nasty places like Communist China, but the chaotic way President Trump is handling things (why beat up on countries like Canada or Lesotho?) are an indication this is simply an own goal by a player who doesn't understand the game.

Taco has raised the average tariff rate by more than 5X, from 2.3% to 17%. It’s likely that corporate expectations are similar to the stock market expectations, which gravitate around the assumption that tariffs with most major trade partners (except China) will level out in that range.

 

[icanhelp1]

Work on your breathing, get some exercise and take your meds.

The concept of a second home escapes DA's intellectual capacity.

 

[Hel_Books]

Taco has raised the average tariff rate by more than 5X, from 2.3% to 17%. It’s likely that corporate expectations are similar to the stock market expectations, which gravitate around the assumption that tariffs with most major trade partners (except China) will level out in that range.

And presuming they do level out (no TACO), and presuming there's no assumption by business that the next administration will be more sane, and after the pre-tariff stockpiles are drawn down, then the price increases for consumers will kick in, because corporations aren't there to lose money permanently.

All this nonsense about foreign countries or big, bad corporations "eating" the cost of tariffs on President Trump's say-so is reminiscent of his claims that "Mexico will pay for the wall."

 

[icanhelp1]

No disagreement. It’s a tax cut bill, not a poverty bill or entitlement expansion bill.

It should go without saying that those who pay little to no federal income tax will receive little to no benefit from any kind of tax cut legislation, and that includes the BBB. For context, roughly 30% of filers today pay nothing. Filers making less than $34,600 who do owe taxes will only save about $150. Those making between $34,602 and $66,800 will save an average of $750.

I also have no disagreement with your assertion about tighter Medicaid and SNAP eligibility requirements. The Medicaid eligibility provisions will impact able-bodied adults between the ages of 19 and 64 who are unwilling to to work, volunteer, or pursue education/job training for 20 hours per week (with exemptions for parents, caregivers, people with disabilities, and certain hardship cases), undocumented migrants, double dippers, and noncompliant recipients who get weeded out due to more frequent compliance checks.

Those American citizens who fall within the definition of Medicaid entitlement will not lose Medicaid benefits, everyone else is fair game.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

The concept of a second home escapes DA's intellectual capacity.

If I didn’t have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal capital gains taxes, CA capital gains taxes (which are taxed as ordinary income at a >13% rate) plus county and city property transfer taxes, I’d sell the house in a heartbeat.

Instead, I’ve opted to leave the house to my kids when my wife and I are dead. The cost basis will step up to market level and they can sell the property free of any federal and state taxes.

 

[icanhelp1]

Taco has raised the average tariff rate by more than 5X, from 2.3% to 17%. It’s likely that corporate expectations are similar to the stock market expectations, which gravitate around the assumption that tariffs with most major trade partners (except China) will level out in that range.

Wage growth is increasing and have been for most the year, outpacing inflation. 3.4% for a 12 month period ending 3/25, indicating an increase in purchasing power within some demographics.

 

[icanhelp1]

If I didn’t have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal capital gains taxes, CA capital gains taxes (which are taxed as ordinary income at a >13% rate) plus county and city property transfer taxes, I’d sell the house in a heartbeat.

Instead, I’ve opted to leave the house to my kids when my wife and I are dead. The cost basis will step up to market level and they can sell the property free of any federal and state taxes.

Hopefully Newsom will be gone and CA tax structure will change. State and local transfer taxes, unbelievable.

 

[Hel_Books]

Those American citizens who fall within the definition of Medicaid entitlement will not lose Medicaid benefits, everyone else is fair game.

Here's a little about Medicaid from one of my favourites:

" . . . For years, people trying to access Medicaid in their state have had to navigate through poorly designed websites, long wait times, and complex forms and notices. And those burdens have a real effect. Even before the chaos of the unwinding, in 2022, about a quarter– a quarter– of uninsured people eligible for Medicaid were not enrolled in it, often due to enrollment barriers. And the thing about Medicaid is, you don’t just have to go through that circus once. You have to renew your coverage every year, which can be incredibly onerous. At one point Tennessee was sending families who wanted to renew their Medicaid a questionnaire that could be as long as 47 pages, and the state could be careless about doing that, as one family lost coverage after their renewal packet was accidentally mailed to a horse pasture. . . .

But there are times when it feels like the obstacles to getting Medicaid have been put there deliberately, so states can keep those they see as “undeserving” off the rolls. Because states get a lot of discretion in deciding who is, and isn’t, eligible for benefits. And in some, they keep the bar so qualify troublingly high, all while adopting a deeply moralizing tone. . . . "

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Hopefully Newsom will be gone and CA tax structure will change. State and local transfer taxes, unbelievable.

Don’t hold your breath. Newsom will be gone soon but the next in line will be no better and the composition of the state legislature won’t change. And new property transfer taxes and parcel taxes are popping up in municipalities all over the state.

 

[MajorRewrite]

A few days ago Trump said only a dummy would let the dollar lose value:

Trump himself remains very much in the strong dollar camp, as he reiterated just a few days ago, saying that he is "never going to let the dollar slide." The only way that could happen, he added, is "if you have a dummy" as president.

But the dollar is falling (down 10% since Trump took office), so Trump changed his tune:

"So when we have a strong dollar, one thing happens: It sounds good. But you don't do any tourism. You can't sell tractors, you can't sell trucks, you can't sell anything," Trump said at the White House before leaving on a trip to Scotland.

The Flip Flop President says whatever helps him avoid responsibility.

 

[Bray123]

Dementia Don has had a bright idea.

Patriotic Americans can now Venmo hard cash to help pay off the national debt.
https://www.newsweek.com/venmo-government-national-debt-2103371

It'll only take $300K each to pay the shortfall that billionaires (like Trump) are avoiding.

 

[MajorRewrite]

US manufacturing data is bouncing all over the place.

New orders for manufactured durable goods in June, down two of the last three months, decreased $32.1 billion or 9.3 percent to $311.8 billion, the U.S. Census Bureau announced today. This followed a 16.5 percent May increase. Excluding transportation, new orders increased 0.2 percent. Excluding defense, new orders decreased 9.4 percent. Transportation equipment, also down two of the last three months, drove the decrease, $32.6 billion or 22.4 percent to $113.0 billion.

It’s hard to imagine that wild fluctuations are a sign of economic health.

 

[Lazaran]

Here's a little about Medicaid from one of my favourites:

" . . . For years, people trying to access Medicaid in their state have had to navigate through poorly designed websites, long wait times, and complex forms and notices. And those burdens have a real effect. Even before the chaos of the unwinding, in 2022, about a quarter– a quarter– of uninsured people eligible for Medicaid were not enrolled in it, often due to enrollment barriers. And the thing about Medicaid is, you don’t just have to go through that circus once. You have to renew your coverage every year, which can be incredibly onerous. At one point Tennessee was sending families who wanted to renew their Medicaid a questionnaire that could be as long as 47 pages, and the state could be careless about doing that, as one family lost coverage after their renewal packet was accidentally mailed to a horse pasture. . . .

But there are times when it feels like the obstacles to getting Medicaid have been put there deliberately, so states can keep those they see as “undeserving” off the rolls. Because states get a lot of discretion in deciding who is, and isn’t, eligible for benefits. And in some, they keep the bar so qualify troublingly high, all while adopting a deeply moralizing tone. . . . "

You must realize by now that the two MAGAts you have been engaging with (BabyBoozer50 & ineedhelp1) are right wing sociopaths. No???



No amount of reason or facts will move the needle on their sociopathic right wing mindsets or positions.

Like all other right wing sociopaths (MAGAts), BabyBoozee50 & ineedhelp1 (etc) are stuck on championing authoritarianism / fascism, self-interest, and indifference / cruelty to others - primarily to oppress or further disadvantage marginalized groups.



Feel free to treat them with all the respect & civility (scorn & derision) they deserve. Reality, reason, and facts have zero effect on them (See also: DonOld Trump).





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[schism666]

https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/aLIxZoLG7Q

what kind of magatard believes this happy horse shit?

 

[Lazaran]

https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/aLIxZoLG7Q

what kind of magatard believes this happy horse shit?

Remember when DonOld made all those happy horse shit claims about the China trade deal in that lying orange POS’s first FAILED term???



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/c...hase-one-trade-deal-study-reveals-11644505449



Remember FOXCONN (Fox con)???



https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/21...illion-wisconsin-project-touted-by-trump.html



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[schism666]

Remember when DonOld made all those happy horse shit claims about the China trade deal in that lying orange POS’s first FAILED term???



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/c...hase-one-trade-deal-study-reveals-11644505449



Remember FOXCONN (Fox con)???



https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/21...illion-wisconsin-project-touted-by-trump.html



We. Told. Them. So.

everyone but the sheep remember his first tariff failures.