The End is Nigh?

[Netzach]

No, I don't think you're alone, but no, I'm not personally doing any planning.

If society comes apart at the seams, pickling and canning skills might be useful. But odds of the new world order resembling Little House on the Prairie days don't seem very good. My money's on Mad Max instead.

Perhaps WD and some of his hunting buddies could be persuaded to move in to protect that patch and that well.

I can't see the entire economy bellying up to the point where I'm not better off buying than trying to grow my food. Everyone will still want US dollars, and I'm thinking bribing/hiring/buying muscle will be an option. Seriously, look at the event chains that would actually mean it's time to grow food for most people (80 percent of the pop is urban/suburban) - you'd have to have a complete flattening of the dollar (as shitty as it is they're still VERY happy to see it across the whole world) a complete technological blackout of some kind (one can make money anywhere on earth with the communications we have) a large-scale natural disaster that wipes out every major coastal city (you have less mouths to feed anyway at that point and you still have first third bank of bumfuck operational or close to)

No, my personal doomsday concern still involves that very retro-80's nightmare, lots of crazy hands on crazy buttons including Russian ones very much. Which I would not like to attempt to survive. The optimists among us with kids can puzzle that out, I'm completely uninterested in going on.

 

[Netzach]

A lot of America got by with hunting and fishing, farming the land, and raising animals. Not an easy life but it is doable. You'd need to farm enough to have some income coming in.

They did have some non-radioactive dirt for a headstart.

 

[intothewoods]

Excuse me while I go jump off a cliff. This thread is depressing me.

 

[JMohegan]

They did have some non-radioactive dirt for a headstart.

And mercury-free streams. Check this out.

 

[ZRT]

They did have some non-radioactive dirt for a headstart.

Fallout risk is overrated. Any general nuclear release would lead to some nasty death zones in the impact areas and somewhat downwind, but overall you've got a lot more concern from chemicals than you do rad. Especially in a scenario where unmaintained chem plants are unloading such jolly characters as benzene all over the countryside.

People get overly excited about rad. I'd take rad over arsenic, any day. Rad's easier to track and contain.

Your biggest concern from that scenario, the biggest killer is going to be the total breakdown of infrastructure. People starve in the millions, especially in deathtraps like LA or NYC where there's literally no escape. Disease comes in and jacks the death toll up, malnutrition, etc.

Being in a rural-type region where folks are armed and have some notion of self-sufficiency helps.

I don't think we're looking at a general nuclear release anytime soon, though. I think we're going to see tactical use of nuclear weapons justified in the next century or so, or else we'll see a limited exchange in the India/Pakistan theater, or we get one over Israel that gets a goodly chunk of the Middle East glassed.

 

[ZRT]

And mercury-free streams. Check this out.

Yeah, merc's biting us on the ass these days. The problem with the stuff is that it's like lead- you build a lifetime accumulation.

Not to minimize it, because ideally you don't get any exposure, but right now Federal regs and health advisories on it are in a lot of confusion, because they really just recently started noting the health risks. They get more excited about mercury, which is a long term chronic hazard, than they do over a lot worse acute hazards.

We obviously need to work to mitigate and eventually eliminate the release. Just don't think that eating fish here and there'll kill you right off, though. Car wreck is still a more likely form of death.

 

[Keroin]

Of course we will adapt, (barring an extinction event, in which case preparation is moot, anyway), our ability to adapt is our greatest advantage and quite likely our biggest failing. Also, there is a difference between adapting and thriving. Many of us have “adapted” to the change in our world by working too much, sleeping too little, eating crap and patching the physical and mental fallout with prescription drugs.

I’m not a doomsayer, predicting nuclear war or viral epidemic, (though both are possible). I merely have surveyed the landscape and I see that the way we are adapting and the direction we’re headed in is not the way I want to live and I believe it’s only going to worsen. Do I spend every day in a panic? No. Chances are I am going to die in some mundane way, like most everyone else. It’s not my death that concerns me, it’s my life and the quality thereof.

As an example, while on The Rock, I met a couple of engineers from Australia who are currently involved in a project to build up part of the Australian coastline, in preparation for the rise in sea levels that most scientists feel is inevitable. Now, maybe they’re all wrong and the sea levels won’t rise or won’t rise as much as predicted but the feeling is that it is better to be prepared for that eventuality than not. I suppose some would see that as doomsday thinking, I see it as a reasonable response based on past and current data.

 

[JMohegan]

Of course we will adapt, (barring an extinction event, in which case preparation is moot, anyway), our ability to adapt is our greatest advantage and quite likely our biggest failing. Also, there is a difference between adapting and thriving. Many of us have “adapted” to the change in our world by working too much, sleeping too little, eating crap and patching the physical and mental fallout with prescription drugs.

I’m not a doomsayer, predicting nuclear war or viral epidemic, (though both are possible). I merely have surveyed the landscape and I see that the way we are adapting and the direction we’re headed in is not the way I want to live and I believe it’s only going to worsen. Do I spend every day in a panic? No. Chances are I am going to die in some mundane way, like most everyone else. It’s not my death that concerns me, it’s my life and the quality thereof.

As an example, while on The Rock, I met a couple of engineers from Australia who are currently involved in a project to build up part of the Australian coastline, in preparation for the rise in sea levels that most scientists feel is inevitable. Now, maybe they’re all wrong and the sea levels won’t rise or won’t rise as much as predicted but the feeling is that it is better to be prepared for that eventuality than not. I suppose some would see that as doomsday thinking, I see it as a reasonable response based on past and current data.

Post Katrina, I don't know too many Americans with confidence in the government's ability to hold back flood waters, not to mention caring for the populace when the water breaks through.

Nothing wrong with preparing for whatever potential eventualities concern you - though of course potential future benefits of doing so should be weighed against the cost to quality of life today.

I've got multiple reasons for not taking proactive measures in case "society came apart at the seams." Partly because I share Netzach's view on what seems likely for the foreseeable future, and partly because I agree with WD and ZRT, that people living in the middle of fucking nowhere will have the only real chance at survival if our infrastructure breaks down, and I've got zero interest in making that move.

 

[ZRT]

The best thing to do is take a look at where you live. I wasn't kidding when I called NYC and LA deathtraps.

Both of them have limited means of ingress and egress. In the event of any disruption of food or water supplies, both towns become war zones in a day, three at the outside. Both have millions of people jammed in, with no reserves to hold up against any sort of catastrophe.

Hommy's got the best strategy for keeping some potable water at hand, maybe he'll repost that. There's a lot of options for a goodly food supply that'll hold, thank the Mormons for pushing that tech into the absurdly viable.

I won't even get to far into the point of keeping a gun handy, but the old rule holds- you got the food, other guy's got the gun, pretty soon he's got the food and the gun. Katrina also showed us how well the government will do in protecting John Q Public from looters, and it's only the latest demonstration in that regard (LA riots, Hurricane Hugo, etc.)

Basic, common-sense examination of the turf is the key here. From there, develop your short and long-term plans. Identify your most likely scenarios. Work the plan around those. Having a good plan for a hurricane will stand you in good stead for any number of less-likely scenarios.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo

 

[Homburg]

Hommy's got the best strategy for keeping some potable water at hand, maybe he'll repost that. There's a lot of options for a goodly food supply that'll hold, thank the Mormons for pushing that tech into the absurdly viable.

Two food quality 55gal plastic drums filled with tap water and treated with a liquid that hyper-oxygenates the water. I've used the water after, oh seven years or so stored. It tasted fine and no one got sick.

Two drums is really not enough for the people we've got here now, but space is already a problem. Add in a good activated charcoal filter for refreshing new water and you're better off. A large volume osmosis-style filter would rock, but they're expensive and not too portable. A Katadyn Expedition filter is probably a good compromise, and they're well-made.

Iodine pills are okay for the short term, but don't do much for drinkability, and don't always kill everything. And, oh, many people can't stomach it, yay.

I won't even get to far into the point of keeping a gun handy, but the old rule holds- you got the food, other guy's got the gun, pretty soon he's got the food and the gun. Katrina also showed us how well the government will do in protecting John Q Public from looters, and it's only the latest demonstration in that regard (LA riots, Hurricane Hugo, etc.)

Some gun is better than no gun.

Basic, common-sense examination of the turf is the key here. From there, develop your short and long-term plans. Identify your most likely scenarios. Work the plan around those. Having a good plan for a hurricane will stand you in good stead for any number of less-likely scenarios.

Exactly. I set my prep for hurricanes, lack of utility service, and zombies. That's good enough for me.

Nuclear war? Pfft, I'm 30 minutes drive from the world's largest naval base. My house will be glassed in a nuclear war. Same with chemical warfare.

Biological event? I'm pretty fucked, as the population is juuust dense enough and highly mobile. Serious outbreaks would be unstoppable.

Flood? Not gonna happen short of catastrophic rise in sea levels.

Food shortage? Well, we're all fucked here, but there is a lot of local agriculture. It might not be wholly impossible to find food. And, hey, I've got guns. I can get funny meat if it gets real bad.

I look at survival in terms of short, medium, and long term, and those correspond to immediate, a week or so, and a month or so. Anything beyond a month is not survival, it's a change in lifestyle.

Short - corresponds to what you have on you, in your car, etc, and is being able to survive the day. This might mean having a blanket and a jar of peanut butter in your car in case you get snowed in.

Medium - Is being able to survive a few days without power and utilities in case of a hurricane or what-not, and generally means whatever you have around the house with provisions to make up for utilities.

Long - Means what you have prepared for serious emergencies such as the post-Katrina breakdown of infrastructure. For most people, this level of survival is whatever cash they have on hand, and pile the kids, clothes, and pets into a car and head for high ground. It takes such a massive breakdown in society to fathom this level of survival planning to be necessary that it becomes questionable in its' own way.

In this situation, you are probably still looking at a lifestyle change. Many of those folks hammered by Katrina did not move back. There just wasn't enough there to go back to.

Most of my friends know that I'm the go-to-guy for that sort of situation. No, I don't have a year's worth of food stockpiled (wish I could afford the resources and the space), but I do have a helluva a lot more back-up than most. After the hurricane, my house is generally the one with the lights on and water and food and the large scary man with the shotgun.

None of that will do a lick of good in the doomsday scenario of "2012", but it sure beats being totally fucked in the aftermath of the normal disasters.

 

[BiBunny]

A solid plan, assuming you've got the ammo to deal with any starving, freezing, or desperately thirsty folks who wander by.

I know folks who make ammo.

 

[graceanne]

Short - corresponds to what you have on you, in your car, etc, and is being able to survive the day. This might mean having a blanket and a jar of peanut butter in your car in case you get snowed in.

Blanket and two bottles of water in my car. Snow is not a worry in Oregon.

Medium - Is being able to survive a few days without power and utilities in case of a hurricane or what-not, and generally means whatever you have around the house with provisions to make up for utilities.

I've gone more than two days without power and/or utilities and we were fine. Once our water was out for two days, with no warning, but it was POURING. We collected water from outside for the toilet, and we have water that we keep around for drinking.

Long - Means what you have prepared for serious emergencies such as the post-Katrina breakdown of infrastructure. For most people, this level of survival is whatever cash they have on hand, and pile the kids, clothes, and pets into a car and head for high ground. It takes such a massive breakdown in society to fathom this level of survival planning to be necessary that it becomes questionable in its' own way.

That's why I have all my important papers grab-able. So that if something bad happens, and I gotta move fast, I can. We'd grab our lock box, the kids and pets, and if we had time some clothes and supplies and move. (Then we'd stop and grab my best friend and her daughter). Where we'd go depends on the situation. My grandpa owns about 10 acres in northern California, my grandma has about a 100 acres about a half an hour away, and my mom has three in mid-Washington. I also have family in Missouri, Texas, Colorado, and Canada.

 

[ZRT]

Blanket and two bottles of water in my car. Snow is not a worry in Oregon.

Sitting socked in over in Baker City for three days begs to differ.

But you mean the other part of Oregon.

 

[eastern sun]

For a few days after 9/11, here in the city, we all sat down and seriously thought out the doomsday scenarios.

I imagined climbing in the broken windows of my local grocery store to grab canned goods and rubbing alcohol. I imagined finding my way to my sister's land, walking across America, if necessary. We made plans to meet in Princeton, if we got separated. We thought about buying a gun.

I decided the one thing I really couldn't bear was the thought of peeling off my daughter's skin when the radiation sickness hit.

Images of Stephen King and Hiroshima flooded my mind.

And I hoped like hell I would be right in the center of the fireball, cause if I wasn't . . . I knew I didn't have a clue.

It was liberating in a way, to give up the desire to survive.

But, I ask you, what are we all doing here? Spending our leisure time on this forum when we could be out averting disaster?

 

[Netzach]

But, I ask you, what are we all doing here? Spending our leisure time on this forum when we could be out averting disaster?

The same shit everyone else is doing, diverting ourselves with the petty material of life for a while.

 

[eastern sun]

The same shit everyone else is doing, diverting ourselves with the petty material of life for a while.

It is diverting, too.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I went to see 2012 in the big theater. (Popcorn and fizzy drink, yahoo!). Let me just start by saying that I don't believe in that particular prediction/conspiracy theory/call it what you will. (Actually, I don't believe in any conspiracy theories). I do, however, believe that humankind is working hard to make itself extinct and my future plans take this into consideration.

Now, you won't find me moving to Oregon and shacking up with some wacky survivalist group in the woods, hunkering down at night in my underground bunker with my AK-47 and 100 cases of Stagg Chilli but I am going to plan.

Eventually I want to have my own little patch of land here, with my own source of water. I will try to get off the grid as much as possible for my power - solar, wind, whatever I can do. I will learn to grow my own food and preserve it. I don't expect to become 100% self sufficient but I do intend to be in a position where, worst case scenario, if society came apart at the seams I wouldn't have to run around screaming and panicking.

So, I'm curious if I'm a lone freak or if anyone else is thinking this way? Do you think the human race has an expiry date and, if so, how are you planning to face this?

*I should also add that while I will prepare for the worst, I always hope for the best and will continue to do my part to try and make things better.

The problem with this whole scheme is that if things ever get so bad that you really need to live on your off-the-grid homestead, you are going to have thousands of starving visitors.

 

[Netzach]

The problem with this whole scheme is that if things ever get so bad that you really need to live on your off-the-grid homestead, you are going to have thousands of starving visitors.

Which means that, holy shit, after a period of unrest, people are going to form governments of some kind and cooperate instead of marauding zombie looters forever more.

 

[ZRT]

Depends on the nature of the disaster. If you're talking complete national collapse, you'll be looking at Somalia 2.0 in some areas.

I think the distribution of weaponry will come into play. In areas where it's highly centralized, guard armories and so on, then it'll stay largely centralized and you'd get warlords in fairly short order. Areas with more dispersed armaments will be able to form resistant communities.

But then we've never done anything like this, so it's pure hypothesis that'll hopefully stay pure hypothesis.

 

[YourCaptor]

I’m pretty confident that I can do it on my own, aside from one technicality.

If society was to collapse I’ll have 2 ½ years to make it to Japan, find a specific soil sample, get the proper whatever life form to grow in it, and process it in a lab. Unless I manage all that, I’ll be gone sooner then later.

That aside though, I think the crucial wild card is the initial judgment call. I did not see 2012, but one think I agree with from the ads is that you cannot depend on government to make that call, the call to get out. It will be up to each individual social unite, familys, friends, etc. Each will have to get out and have a destination. I know that from my families histories.

I also know that my families have survived before, I don’t see why it can’t be done again.

Anyway, the one thing that really troubles me about it all is social. People will die and you’ll have to keep going, people will go their own way, will you go the smart way alone or the dumb way with many… and its gonna be so much harder to find me a good girl.

Oh and I predict money will be rather useless, so much of it is plastic, trade and/or theft will be the way to go. A big gun is useful for both.

If money does survive I see a high and low class society. The rich will have meat, nutrients, water, medicine, etc… while the poor don’t have anything. There is no in-between. And making money will no longer be an option, you just have to have it.

 

[00Syd]

I have my Zombiepocalypse survival plan all worked out (Run like hell -- carrying the biggest knife I've got, of course-- to the police station on 5th St. to grab a shit ton of guns and ammo, and then, in a rag-tag group of survivors, trek to the used-to-be-a-prison-and-looks-like-a-castle public library on 6th ave. and W. 10th, picking up supplies on the way), but can't say I've given much thought to a survival plan for a real-life disaster scenario.

Oops.

 

[graceanne]

Sitting socked in over in Baker City for three days begs to differ.

But you mean the other part of Oregon.

Picky, picky. I mean the good part of Oregon. So there. *pbth*

 

[Carmenica Diaz]

Humans are thinking animals who kill each other. Sooner or later humans will engineer the extinction of the human race. Until then, let’s open another bottle of champers!

 

[rida]

When I was a kid, the dooms-day movie was "The Day After" about the consequences of a nuclear war.

With such a scenario, I don't think I wish to survive.

2012 has my kids scared (no, they did not see the movie, they just have the ads for the movie on tv and they are unavoidable ...). I'm trying to explain that faulty logic behind it, but fears are irrational and part of growing up.

But the fact is that, where I live, we have the looming reality of a much closer disaster in our future: a big earthquake that could happen anytime (with the 70 years cycle we are way overdue ...) .

Putting all valuable documents into a fire-proof safe is something I'd like to do, but so far I've not implemented it. Having an emergency back pack ready is something I've done half way (blankets, hand-powered radio and flash light, first aid kit). The fact is, if it happens while I'm at work, I'll have to walk my way home and I have two rivers to cross ... and I'll be worrying sick for my kids. (As a piece of trivia, in case of earthquake, convenience stores are obliged to give water for free and allow you the use of their toilets.)