The future is dense, walkable cities.

[RandyRebecca]

View attachment 2380340

Urban American is carrying rural America on our backs.

It's more that Wall Street and NAFTA (both strongly supported by the Democratic Party) sold off industrial jobs over decades to cheap labor areas, first by going southwards and westwards within the US (i.e. into cheap labor and less unionized parts of the country, and into housing bubbles out west), and then later into other countries, like China.

It isn't just rural areas left behind (or left out) either, but the rust belt too. This was deliberate policy by big finance in Wall Street, and by the imperialist agendas of the warmongers. They see profit opportunities abroad, so attack the living standards of industrial American workers.

No wonder the Democratic Party looks more and more elitist. They act like they are doing the rural and deindustrialized communities a favor (by subsidizing), even though attacking those communities through job destruction and lack of investment has been government policy for decades.

 

[MajorRewrite]

They act like they are doing the rural and deindustrialized communities a favor (by subsidizing), even though attacking those communities through job destruction and lack of investment has been government policy for decades.

Sorry, that’s nonsense.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I can walk to the market without worrying about being attacked by feral hogs.

It really depends on where you live and the ethnicity and culture of the population and it's not feral hogs you need to worry about. It's feral humans. What you seem to be describing is a high trust society, which is essential for the kind of city you are describing. Trust is very much a foundation for more than economic well-being. High trust is also connected to less violence, more political stability, and better health outcomes. When you can't safely walk anywhere, no, the lifestyle you describe is not possible, as we are seeing in many European and American cities. There are some cities and countries where yes, trust is extremely high. Japan for example. Traditional small town America might be another. There are others where it is extremely low.

Now, this table relates high trust to GDP, but you could equally relate it to ethnicity, or culture, and at a glance, there are some obvious clues to all but the intentionally ignorant. Look at the "most people can be trusted." For your vision to be successful, Norway is were you need to be. Or China or Finland. Not third world shitholes, and so sorry, we are a few percentage points away from having a majority of our (US) population being immigrants from, or descendants of immigrants from, third world shitholes with the cultural baggage and behavioral patterns that implies.

LOL. Walk down the street in Soweto to the market, white girl, and there's a high probability you wouldn't ever make it back alive, and they be lucky to find your body.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

It really depends on where you live and the ethnicity and culture of the population and it's not feral hogs you need to worry about. It's feral humans. What you seem to be describing is a high trust society, which is essential for the kind of city you are describing. Trust is very much a foundation for more than economic well-being. High trust is also connected to less violence, more political stability, and better health outcomes. When you can't safely walk anywhere, no, the lifestyle you describe is not possible, as we are seeing in many European and American cities. There are some cities and countries where yes, trust is extremely high. Japan for example. Traditional small town America might be another. There are others where it is extremely low.

Now, this table relates high trust to GDP, but you could equally relate it to ethnicity, or culture, and at a glance, there are some obvious clues to all but the intentionally ignorant. Look at the "most people can be trusted." For your vision to be successful, Norway is were you need to be. Or China or Finland. Not third world shitholes, and so sorry, we are a few percentage points away from having a majority of our (US) population being immigrants from, or descendants of immigrants from, third world shitholes with the cultural baggage and behavioral patterns that implies.

LOL. Walk down the street in Soweto to the market, white girl, and there's a high probability you wouldn't ever make it back alive, and they be lucky to find your body.

View attachment 2381503

I live in L.A. in a neighborhood with a large homeless population.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I live in L.A. in a neighborhood with a large homeless population.

The homeless generally aren't so bad. It's the 3rd world ferals.... like I said somewhere else, I've spent months at a time in a few of these countries when I was in high school. There are quite a few countries where, as a female, you just do not go anywhere on your own. Or there are just no-go areas. No need for me to explain, you either know or you don't and I'm not going t change your mind so I won't waste my time going into details.

All that needs to be said is you are a product of a high trust society, and that high trust society is a cultural thing, which many other cultures do not share. In the slightest. Witness the rape epidemics in any country with a substantial Islamic minority. Sweden, the UK, Germany. One on fout females in Sweden can now expect to be raped. Walk down the street in Malmo with your little girl? You'd both be raped. You might get away with it a few times, but statistics have a way of catching up if you tempt fate.

Sorry, your high density walkable livable city is a western cultural construct that you and other left-wingers are doing your best to make impossible. It'd be nice, but we're going in the opposite direction where high trust is becoming a thing of the last. My granddad for example, grew up with his family never locking the house when they went out. You didn't need to. THAT is high trust. Now? Forget it. There's a reason more and more Americans are arming themselves.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The homeless generally aren't so bad. It's the 3rd world ferals.... like I said somewhere else, I've spent months at a time in a few of these countries when I was in high school. There are quite a few countries where, as a female, you just do not go anywhere on your own. Or there are just no-go areas. No need for me to explain, you either know or you don't and I'm not going t change your mind so I won't waste my time going into details.

All that needs to be said is you are a product of a high trust society, and that high trust society is a cultural thing, which many other cultures do not share. In the slightest. Witness the rape epidemics in any country with a substantial Islamic minority. Sweden, the UK, Germany. One on fout females in Sweden can now expect to be raped. Walk down the street in Malmo with your little girl? You'd both be raped. You might get away with it a few times, but statistics have a way of catching up if you tempt fate.

Sorry, your high density walkable livable city is a western cultural construct that you and other left-wingers are doing your best to make impossible. It'd be nice, but we're going in the opposite direction where high trust is becoming a thing of the last. My granddad for example, grew up with his family never locking the house when they went out. You didn't need to. THAT is high trust. Now? Forget it. There's a reason more and more Americans are arming themselves.

L.A. is a city of immigrants. Conservatives panic about how dangerous cities are, but I'm more likely to be killed by a bad driver while crossing the street than murdered on the metro. Public safety is why I'm such an adamant supporter of building more mass transit to reduce car dependency. Cars kill about as many Americans as guns every year. We should be trying to reduce the number of both.

 

[ChloeTzang]

That is a concern, but immigrants may also become lunch, prey, targets, etc. for American ferals. If we accept we are only 9 meals from starting some shit and many people have already missed a few, we can expect some shit starting.

Granted illegals should NOT be here to start with, and should be deported wholesale, many of them are relatively harmless and only seeking a better life, and yes, the ferals prey on anyone they see as victims. We're only days away from disaster at any time. Anything that interrupts supply chains....

 

[JoePepsiCo]

L.A. is a city of immigrants. Conservatives panic about how dangerous cities are, but I'm more likely to be killed by a bad driver while crossing the street than murdered on the metro. Public safety is why I'm such an adamant supporter of building more mass transit to reduce car dependency. Cars kill about as many Americans as guns every year. We should be trying to reduce the number of both.

This also makes LA a perfect example of NIMBYism, do as I say, not as I do.

If they are good liberals (not conservatives) then they should have managed their cities so that they do not kill each other simply getting to school and work.

Then, when their house is in order...

 

[MajorRewrite]

We're only days away from disaster at any time. Anything that interrupts supply chains....

Crazy Chloe is upset again by something that only exists in her warped fascist mind.

 

[MajorRewrite]

This also makes LA a perfect example of NIMBYism, do as I say, not as I do.

If they are good liberals (not conservatives) then they should have managed their cities so that they do not kill each other simply getting to school and work.

Then, when their house is in order...

Are you pretending that there are no fatal car crashes in rural and suburban areas?

Hint: there are more fatal car crashes per capita in rural and suburban areas than in urban areas. Mostly because they’re driving at higher speeds but also because of all the drunks.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

This also makes LA a perfect example of NIMBYism, do as I say, not as I do.

If they are good liberals (not conservatives) then they should have managed their cities so that they do not kill each other simply getting to school and work.

Then, when their house is in order...

NIMBY vs YIMBY is not a simple left/right issue. That said, the push for reducing car-dependency is coming mostly from the left.

Fortunately for LA, left-NIMBYism is not as ingrained here as it is in San Francisco. We’re actually managing to build new train lines and new high-density buildings.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Sorry, that’s nonsense.

It is NOT nonsense. Tell me why deindustrialization happened? Why did industry peak as a percentage of US GDP as far back as 1953 and has been declining ever since? New York State was the most populous state in the US back then too, yet is now the fourth most populous state.

As I said, the capitalists and establishment first went southwards and westwards, where there's lower unionization and where the west coast and western areas have big property housing bubbles, and then destroy blue collar industrial jobs by shipping them to cheap labor areas. That's the reason the rust belt exists.

Also, the only real wealth is industry. Property bubbles and finance industries is making money from money, which isn't real wealth.

NIMBY vs YIMBY is not a simple left/right issue. That said, the push for reducing car-dependency is coming mostly from the left.

Fortunately for LA, left-NIMBYism is not as ingrained here as it is in San Francisco. We’re actually managing to build new train lines and new high-density buildings.

Housing costs on the west coast are absurdly high. I wonder how people afford to live there, same with New York City and Boston.

Many parts of the country need cars. It would be hard in terms of travel in Upstate New York without a car. Some people in big coastal cities, which have other transport at their fingertips, don't think about this for other people. We need cars to get around properly. And passenger train lines in the US are woefully low in number compared to European countries.

I live in L.A. in a neighborhood with a large homeless population.

No wonder with those prices. It's a contradiction of liberal capitalism that they claim to want to help the less fortunate, yet they somehow have massively expensive housing costs in their areas. Many of them then move to cheaper areas with the same liberal capitalist attitude, and start the process all over again there.

 

[Lazaran]

Are you pretending that there are no fatal car crashes in rural and suburban areas?

Hint: there are more fatal car crashes per capita in rural and suburban areas than in urban areas. Mostly because they’re driving at higher speeds but also because of all the drunks.

And deer (etc), and twisty roads, and unlighted areas, and longer commutes, and unpaved roads - not to mention - rural drivers are older with worse health conditions on average, and they also have more of a "NASCAR" mentality / attitude towards driving.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Many parts of the country need cars. It would be hard in terms of travel in Upstate New York without a car. Some people in big coastal cities, which have other transport at their fingertips, don't think about this for other people. We need cars to get around properly. And passenger train lines in the US are woefully low in number compared to European countries.

As I've said many time in this thread, cars are fine as rural transport. But it's crazy to build cities where the people who live and work there are forced to own a car to get around.

Instead of spending public funds to build more highways, we should redirect that money to build more trains and bikeways to bring America's dated infrastructure into the 21st Century.

I don't mind providing some subsidies to our poor country cousins, but I would like for them to admit that city dwellers are footing the bill for their country-squire lifestyle. Rural counties simply don't have the tax base to maintain amenities like paved roads.

 

[Saint_Ann]

As I've said many time in this thread, cars are fine as rural transport. But it's crazy to build cities where the people who live and work there are forced to own a car to get around.

Instead of spending public funds to build more highways, we should redirect that money to build more trains and bikeways to bring America's dated infrastructure into the 21st Century.

I don't mind providing some subsidies to our poor country cousins, but I would like for them to admit that city dwellers are footing the bill for their country-squire lifestyle. Rural counties simply don't have the tax base to maintain amenities like paved roads.

Say what? Those silly little roads that farmers use to ship your food on and truckers use to ship your Amazon vibrators aren't worth maintaining? Heaven forbid you have to drive to the republic of Illinois for your abortion. Roads are one of the actual things the fed is supposed to use tax dollars for.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Say what? Those silly little roads that farmers use to ship your food on and truckers use to ship your Amazon vibrators aren't worth maintaining? Heaven forbid you have to drive to the republic of Illinois for your abortion. Roads are one of the actual things the fed is supposed to use tax dollars for.

Ok I’ll support spending money on farm roads, if you support spending the same amount of money on urban mass transit.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Ok I’ll support spending money on farm roads, if you support spending the same amount of money on urban mass transit.

If you'll pay for my gasoline.

 

[ll74]

If you'll pay for my gasoline.

You don't have a car

 

[Saint_Ann]

You don't have a car

You're correct. Tahoe.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

If you'll pay for my gasoline.

I already pay for your roads. Drivers have never paid their own way, they always ask for “more, more, more” from the government.

 

[Saint_Ann]

I already pay for your roads. Drivers have never paid their own way, they always ask for “more, more, more” from the government.

If I pass you standing at the bus stop in 20 deg. below weather, I'll wave from my heated seats.

 

[SmokingFap]

I already pay for your roads. Drivers have never paid their own way, they always ask for “more, more, more” from the government.

We all know that our taxes pay for things that we never use and even protest against. But that's how a civilized society works.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

If I pass you standing at the bus stop in 20 deg. below weather, I'll wave from my heated seats.

I live in LA. It’s never 20 degrees here. When I ride the train home from work I enjoy watching the drivers stuck in traffic on the 10.

Spending money on mass transit instead of highways allows more people get to their destinations faster.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

I've lived in cities all over the world, not fucking LA, what a joke of a city, no one wants to be anywhere near anyone else, but this idea of mass public transit somehow being quicker than anything?

Have you ever waited on a fucking subway???

 

[Saint_Ann]

Where does 'Watts' fit into your dense, walkable city? Gotta put the poor people somewhere. Or just walk around them?