The military and bdsm

[WriterDom]

Is there a connection? There was always a bold line between enlisted and Officer. Very bdsm like in the way you were expected to address them. And if you rose in rank as an enlisted, you were entrusted with control over subordinates. But always at a different level. It's an interesting subculture.

 

[mskittykatt]

dunno about that - but i sure like some of the uniforms! *grin*

 

[NemoAlia]

You know, WD, I think you might be on to something there. Lots of the military people I know are involved in BDSM. (Of course, a lot of the non-military people I know are also involved in BDSM, so it might just be a spurious relationship.) Anyway, maybe it takes a certain kind of person to volunteer for that regimented sort of life, where so much depends on being able to give and/or follow orders...?

Of course, there's a big difference between the military, where people rise in rank with time and experience, and BDSM, where people choose their roles and are as likely to stick with them as they are to change them over time. Choice, is of course, key to BDSM.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Is there a connection? There was always a bold line between enlisted and Officer. Very bdsm like in the way you were expected to address them. And if you rose in rank as an enlisted, you were entrusted with control over subordinates. But always at a different level. It's an interesting subculture.

~~~~~~I know this is a bit off the direction that you are planning for this thread but I would like to add my experience to it.

The 2 most influential Doms have been involved with were former military men. One was a retired AF major and the other was formally in special forces.

Their mindset is definately different. The man in special forces was more controlled in his thinking and less egomanical then the retired Major was. He was less demanding of me and more expecting of me-- expecting I should know what pleased him without constantly having to tell me every move to make. The Major was just the opposite.

The more I think about this, the more different they are in my mind now. Thanks for posting this. It has made me think...

Rose

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Interesting thoughts WD. I'm sure you know from my posts that my Master is a US Army soldier. He is on the enlisted side of the fence, however, he is also in the higher ranks of the enlisted side. I do see what you are talking about tho.....hmmmmm I wonder if that's one of the reasons he's so good at being a Dom. You've given me something to think about anyway.


dixi

 

[DixieDom]

I think there is a definite connection- at least there was in my case. Graduated from a militray college, and then six years in the Army- I had more leadership training than I care to think about. It didn't make me into the Great Leader the Army was looking for (adequate, I think, but definitely not Great), but it did establish the foundation for my venture into bdsm. My military background and training also influenced the direction my bdsm interests took. If you asked for people to describe dominance as a single word, and then submission, also as a single word, mine for dominance would be "control" and for submission it would be "obedience". It's not that bdsm aren't sexual for me, but there is plenty of sex outside bdsm. Military leadership training also incorporates respect for limits, and for tradition, rules, ritual, etc. There is a lot of emphasis on Safe and Sane, but not that much on Consensual.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I think there is a definite connection- at least there was in my case. Graduated from a militray college, and then six years in the Army- I had more leadership training than I care to think about. It didn't make me into the Great Leader the Army was looking for (adequate, I think, but definitely not Great), but it did establish the foundation for my venture into bdsm. My military background and training also influenced the direction my bdsm interests took. If you asked for people to describe dominance as a single word, and then submission, also as a single word, mine for dominance would be "control" and for submission it would be "obedience". It's not that bdsm aren't sexual for me, but there is plenty of sex outside bdsm. Military leadership training also incorporates respect for limits, and for tradition, rules, ritual, etc. There is a lot of emphasis on Safe and Sane, but not that much on Consensual.

~~~~~~Considering that you have first hand experience with this topic, I would like to know what differences you have seen between the two types of men I previously described, i.e one an officer and the other in special forces.

It would be interesting to me to know your insight on this.

Thank you,
Rose

 

[Lancecastor]

Absolutely No Doubt

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that heirarchical, ordered, societal groups, be they occupational, religious or cultural...will produce more adherants per capita of heirarchical, ordered sex/relationship practises such as BDSM....than less ordered groups.

Military culture, by its very nature, is about as dysfunctional and deviant of "the norm" of western societal and business cultures as you can get, so it should come as no surprise that those who, without question, live & die by "the chain of command" , would gravitate to BDSM.

ADR asks an interesting question of "degree"....I would suggest a uniforming-wearing Major would be far more "surface" concerned with "order" than a Special Forces member...as the latter generally requires more lateral and tangential thinking in the carriage of their duties.

A neat thread...I'm surprised it hasn't been covered before!

Lance

 

[NemoAlia]

Then again, Lance, the people I know who are involved in the military often embrace strict moral codes that would prohibit the 'mistreatment' of women that they perceive in BDSM. Admittedly, I live only in my own corner of the world, but it seems to me that at least as many (if not more) BDSM lifestylers choose to live as far from heirarchical structure as they can. For many, BDSM is at least partly an expression of dissatisfaction with the 'rules and regulations' of society. Therefore, they separate themselves from the external heirarchies, choosing to create their own, consensual ones.

 

[Lancecastor]

He who fucks nuns...

I usually see the opposite in tightly wound groups and their leaders.....like the military father in American Beauty, or that old Clash tune, Death or Glory "I believe in this and it's been tested by research...that he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

The biggest pervs I know are cops, military types, church officials and politicians.

The Rev. Det. Major Lance Castor, Senator from Uranus

Then again, Lance, the people I know who are involved in the military often embrace strict moral codes that would prohibit the 'mistreatment' of women that they perceive in BDSM. Admittedly, I live only in my own corner of the world, but it seems to me that at least as many (if not more) BDSM lifestylers choose to live as far from heirarchical structure as they can. For many, BDSM is at least partly an expression of dissatisfaction with the 'rules and regulations' of society. Therefore, they separate themselves from the external heirarchies, choosing to create their own, consensual ones.

 

[Hot4Heels]

All the order following class seeration gobledygoop aside I think this has touched on a nice point.

Discipline

Something that rarely seems touched upon in here. I dont mean dicipline as in to give or recieve I mean in as in to have. Any Vet would know what I am talking about. Any sub that can do verbal restraint would know what I am talking about.

Discipline.

To control yourself. Whether that is used to submit to others or conbtrol others, first YOU must control yourself. Take the lashes without jumping up and running or GIVE the lashes when you really want to dive in.

So much of BDSM revolves round DISCIPLINE and it seems in BDSM this word has become more related to the giving of than having of.

Interesting observation on the officer WD we had very little RESPECT for most of them. Most had nothing to do with us and that SIR was spelled CUR. Not something I think as a Dom you would enjoy.

 

[CarolineOh]

Interesting thoughts WD. I'm sure you know from my posts that my Master is a US Army soldier. He is on the enlisted side of the fence, however, he is also in the higher ranks of the enlisted side. I do see what you are talking about tho.....hmmmmm I wonder if that's one of the reasons he's so good at being a Dom. You've given me something to think about anyway.


dixi

I'm right with you on this one, Dixi. Sam was a sergeant in the Army, and he considers his experience there to be a major factor in building his character.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

I'm right with you on this one, Dixi. Sam was a sergeant in the Army, and he considers his experience there to be a major factor in building his character.

I can understand that Caroline. I've known Master for 22 years, we were high school sweethearts at one time. Back then he was a very shy, almost introverted person. Since his time in the Army he's a much more outgoing person, still reserved at times, but at least he talks more now...lol. I really and truly believe that the Army has helped to make him who he is today, a strong, disciplined, and caring person.

Originally posted by NemoAlia

the people I know who are involved in the military often embrace strict moral codes that would prohibit the 'mistreatment' of women that they perceive in BDSM.

I have to say that I agree with this statement. However, that's not to say that there are not those who are the exact opposite of this as well. Its the same in any facet of society. JMHO


dixi

 

[Lancecastor]

To be clear....

....I know many fine military people; agreed it builds character.

But it's also got more PPC* than any line of work I've see.

Lance

(*Pervs Per Capita)

 

[NemoAlia]

"Pervs per capita" is difficult to measure, I think. Perhaps there aren't necessarily any more pervs in the military than anywhere else; perhaps, in such an intimate community of one's peers (which are mostly who military people associate with -- people of their own approximate rank) a person just feels more free to speak about his/her proclivities than in the less homogeneous outside world.

In my experience in music and theater, I would say that performing artists are doing (more than?) their part to keep up with those military pervs!

 

[Lancecastor]

Aren't there some....

"Pervs per capita" is difficult to measure, I think. Perhaps there aren't necessarily any more pervs in the military than anywhere else; perhaps, in such an intimate community of one's peers (which are mostly who military people associate with -- people of their own approximate rank) a person just feels more free to speak about his/her proclivities than in the less homogeneous outside world.

In my experience in music and theater, I would say that performing artists are doing (more than?) their part to keep up with those military pervs!

...Government stats on Pervs Per Million somewhere?

Oh, you're right of course....I'm just one guy in 300 year old military town speaking anecdotally.

Perves is pervs is pervs....thank golly we're everywhere!

Lance

 

[NemoAlia]

Hear hear!

And thank goodness for the military that gives us such good costuming ideas when we want to roleplay!

 

[Lancecastor]

Armani?

Hear hear!

And thank goodness for the military that gives us such good costuming ideas when we want to roleplay!

Was it Armani who did all those sleek Nazi SS uniforms? It was some big designer.....I didn't believe it the first time I heard it from a collector/diplomat buddy of mine.

Lance

 

[NemoAlia]

Hmm... I've never heard anything about Armani in connection with the SS uniforms. This is the best I could find as far as an actual answer online:

"Otto Weidinger in his history of the Das Reich Division attributes the design and develoment of this style of uniform to SS-Sturmbannfuhrer Dr. Ing. Wilhelm Brandt of the Aufklarungs Abteilung of the SSVT."

Anyway, you've piqued my curiosity. I just called my fashion-expert friend, who has never heard anything about a famous designer's connection with SS uniforms. However, he doesn't think they look much like an Armani design, and he wonders about the feasibility of dates, etc.

Who else could it be, I wonder?

 

[Lancecastor]

Not sure....

...could be my buddy was yankin' my chain...but I think he meant it.

Anyway...fashion+miltary=FreakyX2

Lance

Hmm... I've never heard anything about Armani in connection with the SS uniforms. This is the best I could find as far as an actual answer online:

"Otto Weidinger in his history of the Das Reich Division attributes the design and develoment of this style of uniform to SS-Sturmbannfuhrer Dr. Ing. Wilhelm Brandt of the Aufklarungs Abteilung of the SSVT."

Anyway, you've piqued my curiosity. I just called my fashion-expert friend, who has never heard anything about a famous designer's connection with SS uniforms. However, he doesn't think they look much like an Armani design, and he wonders about the feasibility of dates, etc.

Who else could it be, I wonder?

 

[Little Girl]

Ummmm

What does this say for Master and me, we are both in the military, both the same rank and both have a background in Law Enforcement.....

 

[monster666]

They don't call 'em ....

Master Sergeants for nothing!

Great thread, WD.

 

[Little Girl]

Re: They don't call 'em ....

Master Sergeants for nothing!

Great thread, WD.

Monster666 that is really funny because he just made Master Sergeant and I'm getting ready to move to a Master slot and will be putting it on hopefully within the next month or two....

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Re: They don't call 'em ....

Master Sergeants for nothing!

Great thread, WD.

LOL...dang monster...that explains my Master...also a Master SGT (ok well really 1Sgt, same rank he just gets that silly diamond, and all those damned phone calls on the weekends...LOL)

~smiles~
dixi

 

[monster666]

Re: Re: They don't call 'em ....

Perhaps then you'll be a Master's slut in a Master slot?

Monster666 that is really funny because he just made Master Sergeant and I'm getting ready to move to a Master slot and will be putting it on hopefully within the next month or two....