THE NEW CHYOO (with link)! Also, what features should be part of an updated CHYOO?

[2p1k3]

HASHTAGS
This is far from a critical idea but I believe it would help readers and writers keep track of characteristics an individual has. In the CHYOO2 the only option was to keep {FIRST_NAME} and {LAST_NAME} straight. A hashtag idea could add additional characteristics to a character that end up defined earlier or in other threads; Such as cup size, hair color, height, weight, body type, et cetera.

A functional hashtag would either link to a separate page and/or pop up with a small window when mousing-over the hashtag.

I would also suggest a feature that lets a reader enter more than one name for reasons of personalization at the beginning of a story. I saw this mentioned before in another thread.

Regarding No. 6: Are you in favor of ratings per thread or just ratings per story? And what do you think about comments per story/thread?

Edit:
It's also important to improve the overall reading experience (bigger text, serif, no fixed width). And at the same time the site should work for mobile devices, too (responsive design).

Thank you for sharing your time and skill btw.

I believe the 'hashtag' idea would be able to cover the first thread.

Though I am far from the target of the question; I agree that the comments/thread is better than comments/story. Just the ability to remove trollish 'comments' would be awesome.

In addition, it would be great if there is a way for the author and writers are notified graphically and/or in some other way if the 'notes' part of a thread is modified. Currently, someone must 'edit' the thread in order to see the notes. That is great because the whole idea of what is written is that it is between writers and the author. However, them being able to see that something is there to read without clicking all the way to the 'edit' screen the thread.

... Having not used the site while it was working im not really sure of how the changeable names worked...

in CHYOO2 it is a basic enter two variables at the beginning title page of a story. First variable is {FIRST_NAME} and {LAST_NAME} for the second variable.

I think sometimes writers forget the exact syntax for either variable and so they either use the vague 'you, him, her, they' instead of the name.

Moreover, the CHYOO2 system fails if someone re-enters the story using the storymap from their 'bookmarks'. Speaking of which, letting said set-variables get stored in our 'cookie' would be fantabulous.

 

[GreenBanana]

A smorgasborg of complicating notions

An update to Chyoo sounds like it's been a long time coming, and though I am obviously new here, I feel like we should give it the works (without getting in over our heads).

--Visual
A dark background with light text. This is so much easier on my eyes, though I understand most people wouldn't care one way or another. Pretty please, with sugar on top and a canary in the middle? :3

--Functional
I would like to second the "private" stories idea, wherein only one or certain authors are permitted to work on a particular story. While I fear this would contravene the collaborative features of the site, and may breed wreckless elitism, there are some instances where an author has the numerous branches of a story plotted out, and is compelled to tell their interactive story in their own way, from start to numerous finishes. Then they could close off adding further branches when their story is complete.

I would also like to second an ability to be alerted to updates to stories we have collaborated on.

Can the current Chyoo search search through story content, or just the titles?

Definiely want to second revoting. I've misclicked many a time in my life. More importantly, my opinion on something can change when I've given it further consideration. It's difficult for me to compress all my thoughts into just a quick time span. What may have seemed genius at first may be only modest appraisal afterwards, or vice versa--especially if someone edits their post.

--Conceptual
Revised categories. Sometimes I found myself not knowing which category applied. Perhaps we should use tags instead? They would also be useful for certain fetishes. I'm leery about pandering to certain aspects which seem to leech upon more enlightened motivations (as an aficianado of anthropomophic characters, I am constantly turned off by associations with really bizarre things), but other erotic materials on contemporary internet utilize tags. But I feel that they utilize tags effectively, making it easier to find a story pandering to one's cravings.

-Examples: #fellatio #bisexual #therapy #aliens #virginity

Going hand-in-hand with that, a ratings system of sorts would be nice. "This story features horror." "This story may feature bad endings." Just because a story contains erotic material doesn't necessitate that what transpires is all fun and games, but I don't want to disappoint readers who stumble into my story not expecting eldritch monsters to perform...certain acts upon the characters.

-Examples: #horror #historical #medieval #fantasy #scifi

I really only want to throw this out there for fun, because I admit it needlessly complicates things. I just think it's nifty to consider, that's all. At an older collaborative story site I frequented, you could actually add stories in different directions: You could write what comes before that chapter of the story. Now, I know it seems silly and very conceptual, but I found it inspiring to make different stores overlap with each other, and examine how collaborative narratives could cross over. I admit straightaway we don't need anything like this, but as a writer, I found it an entertaining notion nonetheless. If it seems interesting albeit confusing, I would definitely recommend asking the administrator of the Yellow5 website, as it is my understanding he was the genius behind the Story9000 "collabotron". It wasn't erotic, but it was fun.

Hmm. But on the other hand, and this was mentioned above, some authors might find use in "merging" branches. It's about the journey, not the destination, after all!

And sometimes there are differences between branches of the story that make little sense, like a character who could just as easily be in a separate branch that doesn't show up. How does Immersive Text work again? Making the reader's own "YOU" for a more personable experience? I wonder how variables like these could be worked to influence different branches.

Have there ever been story prompts on this site? Perhaps with the tag feature, one could generate a writing prompt by the site randomly processing tags that have been used and listing a few of them together to give stuck writers ideas. Or maybe SeventhSanctum has something for that already. Sorry, I'm really out there at this point.

How about reading prompts, that take us to a random story to read? I find it so hard to search and sift, and actually /get/ myself to read someone's work--I'm just antisocial and shy like that, and I apologize. But sometimes I like leaving some decisions up to fate!

--Profiles
Are we keeping the profiles? I think it can give a bit of insight into the way some of our mind's work--what sort of philosophy can be expected from our writing, and whether we think that our personalities might make our ratings inordinately lenient or a bit too harsh (like me--I'm a total fusspot. :< But I do respect everyone's writing!). Also, would our Chyoo profiles still be linked to the Literotica website? That feels like a convenient and essential security measure to me, for the purposes of identification.

Sorry again. I know we should at least have a site up and working before I start hurling out crazy ideas like the above. But I feel like we deserve the features that will tickle our imaginations the most, and I also feel that we should make sure we keep our options open beforehand, or we might find ourselves putting things off later simply because it would be too much trouble.

What do you say?

 

[Kaitou1412]

--Functional
I would like to second the "private" stories idea, wherein only one or certain authors are permitted to work on a particular story. While I fear this would contravene the collaborative features of the site, and may breed wreckless elitism, there are some instances where an author has the numerous branches of a story plotted out, and is compelled to tell their interactive story in their own way, from start to numerous finishes. Then they could close off adding further branches when their story is complete.

This much we already have. Marking a story as closed is supposed to prevent anyone besides the editor from adding to the story; the fifth thread trick can get around this ruling. The reason for this middle ground in which selected users can contribute is more for a distinct partnership forged upon the story's conception. In other words, it's for when two or more users agree ahead of time to make a specific chain of events before allowing public access. This is absent from CHYOO, there's no way for the non-editor members to add to the story besides the trick, a trick which I hope will be removed.

Can the current Chyoo search search through story content, or just the titles?

It can, but only as a perfect match. For example, if I search "black wings" (no quotes), I only find pages with that exact phrase, skipping "black beauty," "angel's wings," and more of the like. However, it only works like this if the user performs an advanced search and selects "entire story." A basic search will search only the title and synopsis, but it's still only exact matches.

Definiely want to second revoting. I've misclicked many a time in my life. More importantly, my opinion on something can change when I've given it further consideration. It's difficult for me to compress all my thoughts into just a quick time span. What may have seemed genius at first may be only modest appraisal afterwards, or vice versa--especially if someone edits their post.

Another component to this idea would be to have the rating supplied in a manner besides advancing or backtracking in the story. As it stands, misclicks become true ratings, and some of the new users don't supply all of their ratings - they go to the map or the home page, which does not submit the rating. If ratings are taken off the main navigation, these problems disappear.

Anyway, now that we've got CHYOO back (for the most part), let's focus on tightening up what's there and discuss new bells and whistles, as well as hope Manu and Laurel are willing to discuss cooperating with our team. On that note, Friedman, is there cooperation at the moment, or is this still set to be an off-site project?

 

[Murakami]

Work is still ongoing on the new site. It's time for an upgrade.

 

[Xorph]

Well, look at that. We start talking seriously about starting a new site ourselves and *hey presto* the old one magically starts working again.

 

[Friedman]

As Murakami mentioned, we're still working on the new site, and we've made pretty good progress so far.

For now I want to share with you the current logo draft. Your feedback is appreciated.

 

[Chouken]

I like the minimalist touch, Friedman.

I would also like to see this project continue despite Chyoo regaining some functionality. You are doing a fantastic job.

As for:

--Functional
I would like to second the "private" stories idea, wherein only one or certain authors are permitted to work on a particular story. While I fear this would contravene the collaborative features of the site, and may breed wreckless elitism, there are some instances where an author has the numerous branches of a story plotted out, and is compelled to tell their interactive story in their own way, from start to numerous finishes. Then they could close off adding further branches when their story is complete.

I agree. This will also allow authors greater protection against malicious users (with multiple accounts) ruining and spamming their stories. Simply create a system where they can make their story 'private' or 'public', add 'trusted users', add 'banned users'. You can also have a 'request to be trusted user' button for interested users. I am perfectly fine with authors having full creative control over their stories while they are active; so long as there is a mechanism that automatically makes x-month old stories 'public' on time out. It is up to an active author to switch their stories to 'private' again.

--Conceptual
Revised categories. Sometimes I found myself not knowing which category applied. Perhaps we should use tags instead? They would also be useful for certain fetishes. I'm leery about pandering to certain aspects which seem to leech upon more enlightened motivations (as an aficianado of anthropomophic characters, I am constantly turned off by associations with really bizarre things), but other erotic materials on contemporary internet utilize tags. But I feel that they utilize tags effectively, making it easier to find a story pandering to one's cravings.

-Examples: #fellatio #bisexual #therapy #aliens #virginity

I really like this idea, but I am going to go one step further: let writers give tags to their individual additions. The biggest difficulty when it comes to collaborative stories is that later down the track, another writer will add something that isn't specified. This gives a certain amount of flexibility... but here is something else I would like...

... a counter for these tags...

-Examples: #fellatio (3) #bisexual (1) #therapy (2) #aliens (1) #virginity (1)

Basically, for every time that tag is mentioned in an addition, that tag will go up. This should let readers know how often a certain tag will show up in that story.

For instance, you might not be into the #bisexual tag, but if it's only got a 1 beside it, you know it's only one addition in the whole story that's been tagged that way.

Thoughts?

 

[GreenBanana]

For the "request to be trusted," I'd suggest only one request can be seen at a time. So even if they request twice, they'd still only have one request sent. And banned users' requests simply don't go through.

I really like this idea, but I am going to go one step further: let writers give tags to their individual additions. The biggest difficulty when it comes to collaborative stories is that later down the track, another writer will add something that isn't specified. This gives a certain amount of flexibility... but here is something else I would like...

... a counter for these tags...

-Examples: #fellatio (3) #bisexual (1) #therapy (2) #aliens (1) #virginity (1)

Basically, for every time that tag is mentioned in an addition, that tag will go up. This should let readers know how often a certain tag will show up in that story.

For instance, you might not be into the #bisexual tag, but if it's only got a 1 beside it, you know it's only one addition in the whole story that's been tagged that way.

Thoughts?

Absolutely sounds like the way to handle tags for this sort of site to me. I wonder how we would handle erroneous tags; I.E. when someone gives an addition a tag that doesn't apply. Other tag sites typically use the honor system, though, and their real issue is relying on a #tagme tag, which is kinda lazy. (Oh my gosh, that froggy's so cute. <3 )

 

[ChaosMuramasa]

My, how things have developed this past week. I'm away due to moving across the country and come back to a functional Chyoo...or a somewhat functional one, anyway. However, I'm very glad that Chyoo's slow but steady revival hasn't stopped this project of getting a new site up and running. It's awesome that we have people who are willing to put the time and effort into making a new site for this community. Everyone working on the new site, you have my thanks. It means a lot to me as I'm sure it means a lot to everyone else.

In regards to suggestions, good recommendations on everyone's part. I agree with just about everything I've read, especially Chouken's revision to the tagging system. However, to avoid people tagging things incorrectly as GreenBanana mentioned, maybe have a system where the author/trusted editors of a story must finalize any and all proposed changes to a story's tags by readers? The main author and any editors they trust would surely be able to handle such a task, I think.

As for my own notes (apologies if I bring up points which have been discussed as I haven't had the chance to read every single thing), the main thing that's always bothered me about Chyoo is the form resubmission that occurs whenever you try to go to the previous page of a story by hitting the browser's Back button. Having to scroll all the way down to hit "Previous" and being forced to refresh are both not very attractive options in terms of functionality and backtracking. If at all possible, hitting the Back button should do what it's supposed to do and send you to the previous page without any problems.

I heavily agree with being able to reply to feedbacks or comments you get. I would also recommend going about having a notification system if at all possible for feedback and comments, be it through the site itself or through automated e-mails. Perhaps also give each story it's own overall comments page as opposed to feedback that only authors of respective threads can see. A site I run another story on, Hentai-Foundry, has a comments page that allows you to comment on either the index with all the chapter listings (the equivalent to Chyoo's story map) or on an individual chapter itself. On this page, anyone can respond to anyone, allowing for any form of discussion to go on about a story. I understand if this is thinking too far ahead for now, but do consider some form of updated commenting for the future.

If I think of anything else, I'll share my thoughts, but unfortunately I'm without a computer (currently borrowing my aunt's while she's at work) until my stuff gets here from the moving company, and posting from my phone is somewhat of a pain, but I'll continue to monitor this thread and hope all goes well.

P.S. --- Chouken, did my last e-mail to you go through? I'm wondering as I was on a spotty 4G network when I wrote it and I couldn't figure out if it screwed up or not. Sorry to ask here, but since I saw you actively posting, I figured I would ask.

 

[Indirect]

I do like the logo but are you going to be able to call the new site Chyoo? I mean if the owners of Literotica don't mind then there's no problem. Otherwise maybe it would be safer to call it something like Chyos (Choose your own story) or some other similar yet not identical name.

 

[Friedman]

I do like the logo but are you going to be able to call the new site Chyoo? I mean if the owners of Literotica don't mind then there's no problem. Otherwise maybe it would be safer to call it something like Chyos (Choose your own story) or some other similar yet not identical name.

I'm glad you like the logo.

But it's true. If there is no cooperation with the owners, we would have to find another name. Chyos would be an option.

 

[Murakami]

There aren't any owners. The original guy vanished. That is why this has been so much of an issue all this time. Literotica HOSTS Chyoo, but they don't own it (As far as I understand it). It is an orphan work. That is why it is so important to remake it.

 

[2p1k3]

I've looked a little into "trademarks" and to me, CHYOO appears to be open for anyone to use. Trademarks works very differently from copyrights.

I'm glad you like the logo.

But it's true. If there is no cooperation with the owners, we would have to find another name. Chyos would be an option.

If there is going to be a switch I'd suggest Ch.Y.O.A. for "Choose Your Own Adventure".

 

[Friedman]

Thanks for the suggestions.

However, we'll try to keep CHYOO under the same name.

 

[Xorph]

Big thanks to Friedman and collaborators for doing all this!

 

[Murakami]

Hopefully we will be able to get access to the current database. Then we will be able to directly bring over all the old stories and account data. This will also mean we can pull in all the old data directly, instead of having to do some kind of automated copy-past operation on the whole site.

You'll have to sign up for a new account for the new site. It may be possible to have moderators link your old accounts to your new ones if you can provide proof of identity; it all depends on how the new system is set up. If you use the same email we will hopefully be able to match your new account to your old one (and possibly also merge the disparate accounts from people having to make new ones due to old errors). This may take a little time after the site comes online, as it will probably have to be done manually, if for no other reason than coding an automated system for something we only have to do once is a bit of a time waster and adds another point of failure to the website code.

I am not the one talking to the current hosts about getting access to the database, I am only helping with the site design on and HTML/CSS level, not working on the underlying **********/PHP code, so this is all second hand information/hopes on my part ATM.

NOTE: again, J A V A S C R I P T is treated as a bad word.

 

[Chouken]

I've looked a little into "trademarks" and to me, CHYOO appears to be open for anyone to use. Trademarks works very differently from copyrights.If there is going to be a switch I'd suggest Ch.Y.O.A. for "Choose Your Own Adventure".

I tentatively agree, but only on the basis that the owner is completely absent, and that they haven't officially licensed CHYOO as a Trademark.

This is not to say they have no claim, just that enforcing their IP would be more trouble than its worth (considering CHYOO is a non-profit service and generates no revenue). I think the most they could do is send a letter, then perhaps try for an injunction order, but that would be a ridiculous amount of work to do to retain the Trademark of a site that you haven't worked on for years.

P.S. --- Chouken, did my last e-mail to you go through? I'm wondering as I was on a spotty 4G network when I wrote it and I couldn't figure out if it screwed up or not. Sorry to ask here, but since I saw you actively posting, I figured I would ask.

Sent a reply. Sorry! I am pretty bad at keeping in contact.

 

[Friedman]

Again, thanks for the praises. I have to thank Murakami for his feedback so far. He is of great help.

We have now finished more or less the design of the site. Here follows the main story page, the central page of the site, where the reading and writing is going on. Our goal was to lay the focus on the presentation of the text. Therefore, we chose a serif font for a better reading experience and set a certain width for several screen sizes, so the eyes don't have to move from left to right on wider screens. But we will add a feature to customize this and the colors.
As requested, there is now only one click, instead of two to get to the next thread/page. The rating system and comments will follow.
Besides that, we've added some categories to the existing ones and we will integrate the use of tags, as indicated in the upper dropdown.

If you have further suggestions for improvement, please let me know.

Here are the screenshots:

 

[moonblack]

The screenshots look great. About the first one:
The options "Previous page", "Story map", "Start Over" and "Report" should all be available on top (above the text of the thread) and on bottom (below "Add a new thread). This way if I just finished reading a long thread and want to go back to the previous one I don't have to scroll all the way up to the top; also, if I want to view the story map or to start over I don't have to scroll down just to do so.

About the categories: Would it be a problem to have Fantasy separate from Sci-Fi? While some stories are a combination of both most stories I have seen are either Fantasy or Sci-Fi, so when I'm looking for the former the latter only gets in the way, and vice versa.

The same goes for the "Transsexuals & Crossdressers" category - I think it will be better to make it two separate categories.

 

[Xorph]

This may take a little time after the site comes online, as it will probably have to be done manually, if for no other reason than coding an automated system for something we only have to do once is a bit of a time waster and adds another point of failure to the website code.

Yes, and for important but fiddly things like sorting out and merging usernames, it's a good idea to have a human being to double-check it anyway.

We have now finished more or less the design of the site. Here follows the main story page, the central page of the site, where the reading and writing is going on. Our goal was to lay the focus on the presentation of the text. Therefore, we chose a serif font for a better reading experience and set a certain width for several screen sizes, so the eyes don't have to move from left to right on wider screens. But we will add a feature to customize this and the colors.

This looks terrific. I wish I could do more to help. I guess, since I don't know how to code or do website design, my contributions will just have to be written content for the site.

 

[dkgooner]

How about the feedback options? I like to get some comments on my threads, even if it is sometimes not very constructive at all (a vote of 1, without any reasoning as to why it was the worst piece of writing ever). And a high rating can also be a nice bit of motivation to keep a story going in a certain direction.

* edit: guess you're not logged on (on those screenshots)? Gotten used to being logged on whenever I read on that site! So that feature is the same I guess? Could it be made so it possible to see who's commenting (and for the public too perhaps?)

 

[GreenBanana]

Ooh, those screenshots look pretty! Even if I would personally prefer a dark background.

The categories tab looks large and cluttered to me, though, and the categories themselves feel like someone just called out a bunch of ideas in a pile. I understand the desire for organization and consistency, but to be honest, I'm not sure I'm seeing that here. "Gay Male" and "Lesbian Sex" are essentially two takes on a similar idea, but the naming convention isn't consistent. If we have "cheating wives," do we need "cheating husbands" as well? Some of the categories appear to be genre and others are themes. I also feel that a story could easily find itself placed into multiple categories at once, which tags would allow. I just feel like stories could be sorted in a more concise and identifying manner, and we should embrace the non-mutually-exclusive nature of them.

Maybe categories would benefit from having a column for the most popular tags, a customizable column, and perhaps a column of the least popular and a column of randomly selected tags. Somehow, the more I look at the categories, the less satisfied I feel with how that system's currently set-up, particularly in terms of open-endedness. I just feel like a site such as Rule34.xxx, which allows users to find pictures based on tag searches, makes it easier to categorize open-ended content, although the issue there is images which nobody has tagged properly. I get that utilizing these categories constrains people to identify their stories by some means, but perhaps new stories could require a certain number of tags to begin with, along with a suggested set of tags.

That makes me think that perhaps it should be possible to view tags of an upcoming story thread before one's clicked it, but I'd worry about things appearing too cluttered. Maybe this idea is all just more trouble than it's worth. :<

As long as the new site design is secure, long-lasting and can be modified with ease, perhaps it won't be such a problem. I just don't feel like I've communicated my misgivings here with enough clarity.

As for not knowing why you received a 1, maybe the voter though it stood for "first place"? That can happen on voting systems sometimes. I know I have to stare for a while if I'm new to a site, and wouldn't be aware that votes are averaged out.

 

[Indirect]

Those layouts look great. For the first time since long before I joined the site that "Chyoo 3.0 Coming Soon" banner actually means something. Thank you for your efforts and I hope porting over a test story (or whatever the next step is) goes smoothly.

 

[dkgooner]

Ooh, those screenshots look pretty! Even if I would personally prefer a dark background.

The categories tab looks large and cluttered to me, though, and the categories themselves feel like someone just called out a bunch of ideas in a pile. I understand the desire for organization and consistency, but to be honest, I'm not sure I'm seeing that here. "Gay Male" and "Lesbian Sex" are essentially two takes on a similar idea, but the naming convention isn't consistent. If we have "cheating wives," do we need "cheating husbands" as well? Some of the categories appear to be genre and others are themes. I also feel that a story could easily find itself placed into multiple categories at once, which tags would allow. I just feel like stories could be sorted in a more concise and identifying manner, and we should embrace the non-mutually-exclusive nature of them.

Maybe categories would benefit from having a column for the most popular tags, a customizable column, and perhaps a column of the least popular and a column of randomly selected tags. Somehow, the more I look at the categories, the less satisfied I feel with how that system's currently set-up, particularly in terms of open-endedness. I just feel like a site such as Rule34.xxx, which allows users to find pictures based on tag searches, makes it easier to categorize open-ended content, although the issue there is images which nobody has tagged properly. I get that utilizing these categories constrains people to identify their stories by some means, but perhaps new stories could require a certain number of tags to begin with, along with a suggested set of tags.

That makes me think that perhaps it should be possible to view tags of an upcoming story thread before one's clicked it, but I'd worry about things appearing too cluttered. Maybe this idea is all just more trouble than it's worth. :<

As long as the new site design is secure, long-lasting and can be modified with ease, perhaps it won't be such a problem. I just don't feel like I've communicated my misgivings here with enough clarity.

As for not knowing why you received a 1, maybe the voter though it stood for "first place"? That can happen on voting systems sometimes. I know I have to stare for a while if I'm new to a site, and wouldn't be aware that votes are averaged out.

Gay male and lesbian sex aren't the same! Yeah, it's same-sex action, but it doesn't necessarily share the same readers! It seems to me that the list of categories mirrors that of literotica? And if the search option is retained you can always use that (makes people explore the site more, find stories they wouldn't perhaps have?) - As stories can branch out to all kind of things they might not fit exclusively into the category they were posted in, but that's the case on many sites (including the current chyoo), and not really an issue for me. There'll still be a description to go along with every story, right?

I am for keeping the site as simple as possible! That's a strength of the current (when it works ) - but adding tags (as on literotica) could be another (easier) way to do a search I guess. Don't want to put too much of you guys working on it, so if too troublesome - don't!

For the background, could it be done as with boards like this? Each user can costumize color, text and such? (Same rule as above applies!)

 

[Murakami]

The screenshots look great. About the first one:
The options "Previous page", "Story map", "Start Over" and "Report" should all be available on top (above the text of the thread) and on bottom (below "Add a new thread). This way if I just finished reading a long thread and want to go back to the previous one I don't have to scroll all the way up to the top; also, if I want to view the story map or to start over I don't have to scroll down just to do so.

Report does not belong on the top of the page. The others are a matter of preference, but while you want to make report obvious, you don't want to make it prominent. That gives the impression that it needs to be used often, and can increase the number of spurious reports.