The Russian people

[Wilson23]

The ongoing war is Putin's war of choice and nothing else. The Russian people were not clamoring for war with Ukraine, not frightened of the prospect of one more NATO member on Russia's boder. And they have nothing to GAIN by this war. Winning it will not make the Russian people any safer, or richer, or freer. And losing it will not cost them anything but taxes.

If Putin decided to END it, he would face no political opposition at all to that decision -- not even from the military.

Am I wrong on any point here?

 

[Venefica]

Yes, I am afraid you are wrong.

I got the impression that many Russians agree to Putins superpower fantasy and like the attempt to regain the old strength ... at least as long as only the Russian minorities and crminals die for that dream.

 

[Wilson23]

Yes, I am afraid you are wrong.

I got the impression that many Russians agree to Putins superpower fantasy and like the attempt to regain the old strength ... at least as long as only the Russian minorities and crminals die for that dream.

How nostalgic are they for Soviet Communism?

 

[Venefica]

I assume that a significant part want that time back, similar to a significant part of the East Germans

 

[Wilson23]

I assume that a significant part want that time back, similar to a significant part of the East Germans

But never quite enough to win elections for Communists.

 

[SebastianHolt]

The ongoing war is Putin's war of choice and nothing else. The Russian people were not clamoring for war with Ukraine, not frightened of the prospect of one more NATO member on Russia's boder. And they have nothing to GAIN by this war. Winning it will not make the Russian people any safer, or richer, or freer. And losing it will not cost them anything but taxes.

If Putin decided to END it, he would face no political opposition at all to that decision -- not even from the military.

Am I wrong on any point here?

and what do you know about Russia? Ever been there?

 

[Wilson23]

and what do you know about Russia? Ever been there?

I studied the language in college. More importantly, I have studied the history, medieval to present.

 

[Wilson23]

Since this is Putin's personal war of choice, it will go on until he gets sick and tired of it.

So how much longer will THAT take?

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Am I wrong on any point here?

On every conceivable point.

This was never about territorial aggrandizement and was always about security.

NATO weaponry on Russian Federation borders were always the issue. As soon as NATO membership is conferred, that means NATO weaponry on RF borders. That positions an increasingly unstable Western alliance in position for decapitation strikes.

Here is a partial list of times in which this has been communicated to Western ‘leaders.’

2004: Putin advised NATO leaders that this is the Federation’s ultimate red line.

2007: Putin's Munich Security Conference speech.

2008: Wm. Burns, US Ambassador to the Russian Federation published a vital paper on this matter.

Dmitry Medvedev's remarks at the NATO summit.

2014: Putin's statement after Crimea's annexation.

2016: Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's comments on NATO expansion.

2019: Putin's speech at the Valdai Discussion Club.

Statements from the Russian Foreign Ministry about NATO's "open door" policy.

2020: Lavrov's comments on NATO exercises near Russian borders.

The Security Council of Russia Statements regarding NATO's influence in Eastern Europe.

2021: Medvedev's warning regarding NATO military presence in Ukraine.

Dmitry Peskov's remarks on NATO's role in regional security.

Putin's discussions with world leaders about NATO expansion during bilateral meetings.

2021-2022: Russian military officials' warnings about NATO's military buildup.

2022: Statements from Russian officials during the Ukraine crisis about NATO encroachment.

However provoked [on many occasions], the Federation incursion into Ukraine is an utterly reactionary position which ultimately fails to resolve any of the issues related to Capitalism’s systemic crises that drive the conflict.

Even as the Special Military Operation grinds Ukraine defenses, other states are being groomed to maintain the conflict.

The Russian Federation can no more extricate itself from this conflict than the US and Europe can no more extract itself from its crimes ongoing in West Asia, Latin America, Africa, etc.

Moreover, President Putin does not ‘call the shots’ as some western corporate ‘news and spews’ agencies pretend; the RF has a constitution, governing bodies seated with elected officials, protocol, laws, etc. as is true of any mature nation.

If you actually believe that the Federation is ruled by fiat, I really can’t defend you when the fascistic right participants censor you for stupidity.

How should members see you?

You decide.

 

[direstraits]

when it comes to anything which Russia does, why do we ignore the fact that its USA which funds coups/creates instability/funds wars all around the world and the ukraine conflict began when USA funded a coup in Ukraine back in 2014 creating instability in russia's neighborhood, imagine if russia funded a coup in mexico and placed a leader who listened to them ? the collective west dont care a rats ass about ukraine or its people, they even said they will fight russia to the last ukrainian, cant you see it ? they are using ukraine as toilet paper to do their dirty work and ukrainians have been brainwashed to that extent that they are losing land/people and already poor demographics are getting worse, remember, russia has issues with neighbors which is very normal, india had wars conflicts with pakistan, south and north korea have issues, china and taiwan have issues, all these nations are neighbors, but russia does not fight wars or fund coups on the other side of the planet ,

 

[ll74]

when it comes to anything which Russia does, why do we ignore the fact that its USA which funds coups/creates instability/funds wars all around the world and the ukraine conflict began when USA funded a coup in Ukraine back in 2014 creating instability in russia's neighborhood, imagine if russia funded a coup in mexico and placed a leader who listened to them ? the collective west dont care a rats ass about ukraine or its people, they even said they will fight russia to the last ukrainian, cant you see it ? they are using ukraine as toilet paper to do their dirty work and ukrainians have been brainwashed to that extent that they are losing land/people and already poor demographics are getting worse, remember, russia has issues with neighbors which is very normal, india had wars conflicts with pakistan, south and north korea have issues, china and taiwan have issues, all these nations are neighbors, but russia does not fight wars or fund coups on the other side of the planet ,

"Why is Russia treated so unfairly?"

Oh hell...stfu

 

[ll74]

Moreover, President Putin does not ‘call the shots’ as some western corporate ‘news and spews’ agencies pretend; the RF has a constitution, governing bodies seated with elected officials, protocol, laws, etc. as is true of any mature nation.

Putin calls the shots.
He kills everyone who disagrees.
The governing bodies are there because Putin lets them be there.
That's what dictators do.

 

[Hel_Books]

when it comes to anything which Russia does, why do we ignore the fact that its USA which funds coups/creates instability/funds wars all around the world and the ukraine conflict began when USA funded a coup in Ukraine back in 2014 creating instability in russia's neighborhood, imagine if russia funded a coup in mexico and placed a leader who listened to them ? the collective west dont care a rats ass about ukraine or its people, they even said they will fight russia to the last ukrainian, cant you see it ? they are using ukraine as toilet paper to do their dirty work and ukrainians have been brainwashed to that extent that they are losing land/people and already poor demographics are getting worse, remember, russia has issues with neighbors which is very normal, india had wars conflicts with pakistan, south and north korea have issues, china and taiwan have issues, all these nations are neighbors, but russia does not fight wars or fund coups on the other side of the planet ,

Um, "funded a coup"? The USA has proven singularly ineffective at "regime change" pretty much everywhere. To say that somehow the USA caused Ukraine to have anti-Russian (can you say "Holodomor"? I knew you could!) sentiments is simply ludicrous.

 

[direstraits]

Um, "funded a coup"? The USA has proven singularly ineffective at "regime change" pretty much everywhere. To say that somehow the USA caused Ukraine to have anti-Russian (can you say "Holodomor"? I knew you could!) sentiments is simply ludicrous.

are you serious or joking ? i think you are living in a tiny hole many kilometers under the earth, will you deny and deflect the fact that US kidnapped venezuelan president recently and placed a new one to sing US tone ? you had victoria nuland handing out bread loves to babushkas on the day of the coup in ukraine in 2014 and john mccain giving a speech on stage, will you deny and deflect the fact that us invaded iraq in 2002 on the false pretext of weapons of mass destruction just to milk iraqi oil and saddam hussein was planning to move away from the us dollar, thousands of us soldiers died and injured, thousands of iraqi's died and displaced, you really lack wisdom to know the difference, go and listen to BBC/CNN/MSNBC/ABC/telegraph, so you can get your daily dose of brainwashing,

 

[Sign54]

Putin calls the shots.
He kills everyone who disagrees.
The governing bodies are there because Putin lets them be there.
That's what dictators do.

Yeah. He talks and walks like a dictator. He even used the "people who speak our language exist in another country, lets invade them to protect them" excuse

 

[ll74]

Yeah. He talks and walks like a dictator. He even used the "people who speak our language exist in another country, lets invade them to protect them" excuse

He is a dictator.

 

[Hel_Books]

Hel_Books said:
Um, "funded a coup"? The USA has proven singularly ineffective at "regime change" pretty much everywhere. To say that somehow the USA caused Ukraine to have anti-Russian (can you say "Holodomor"? I knew you could!) sentiments is simply ludicrous.

are you serious or joking ? i think you are living in a tiny hole many kilometers under the earth, will you deny and deflect the fact that US kidnapped venezuelan president recently and placed a new one to sing US tone ? you had victoria nuland handing out bread loves to babushkas on the day of the coup in ukraine in 2014 and john mccain giving a speech on stage, will you deny and deflect the fact that us invaded iraq in 2002 on the false pretext of weapons of mass destruction just to milk iraqi oil and saddam hussein was planning to move away from the us dollar, thousands of us soldiers died and injured, thousands of iraqi's died and displaced, you really lack wisdom to know the difference, go and listen to BBC/CNN/MSNBC/ABC/telegraph, so you can get your daily dose of brainwashing,

Oh yes, Venezuela and Iraq. Remind me again of how "pro-American" those regimes are?

From Vietnam to Afghanistan, the Americans have proven no match for the British at organizing a worldwide empire. As for Ukraine, do you seriously claim that without USA "intervention" the Ukrainians would have cheerfully welcomed becoming an appanage of a recrudescent Russian empire, like Belarus?

 

[direstraits]

Oh yes, Venezuela and Iraq. Remind me again of how "pro-American" those regimes are?

From Vietnam to Afghanistan, the Americans have proven no match for the British at organizing a worldwide empire. As for Ukraine, do you seriously claim that without USA "intervention" the Ukrainians would have cheerfully welcomed becoming an appanage of a recrudescent Russian empire, like Belarus?

Why does a government have to be pro american ? venezuela and iraq were not pro american and US changed the leadership there,
similarly the 2014 government of ukraine was not pro west and usa funded the coup,
the western part of ukraine is more exposed to the west and many people do have a liking for the western culture and life there, but the eastern part has an affinity more to russia, the 2014 leader of ukraine was democratically elected, the 2014 coup was funded and orchestrated by the american govenment, john mccain, victoria nuland and gang, based on the history of USA's foreign policy and interventions, its clear they dont care a rats ass for the betterment of ukraine, as lindsey graham explicitly mentioned, they are willing to fight russia till the last ukrainian, so basically till the toilet paper roll runs out. Most ukrainians love being NATO's toilet paper and wipe nato's ass. See the result of siding with the west and playing games with a superpower like Russia, Ukraine lost 20% of its land, huge number of its working population, collapse of demographic balance. The same would have happened to mexico if it sided with china or russia in playing games with USA. USA has to learn to mind its own business and it has a lot to work in in their own country, there are homeless people living on the streets of sanfrancisco, philadelphia, new york, doing drugs, american citizens dont feel safe in their own cities, crime has gone up, americans are are lining up for foodstamps, because the government is sending billions of dollars to the most corrupt country in europe

 

[wallstreetguy]

Ukraine Russia is a tragedy of epic proportions. Literally the dumbest fucking war ever. Putin is Hitler and Zelensky is Stalin.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Yo Dire Straits… are you fucking denying all elections in Ukraine since the coup??

Are you pro Putin????

All the other history? Fine. Americans got dragged into the end of the colonial era with the extensions of WWII and have fallen into the footsteps of the earlier colonial powers.

Now? Assholes like Stephen Miller wants a new colonial age where “might makes right”

The Iranians seem to be showing Our Queen that some history can’t be repeated.

 

[Hel_Books]

the 2014 leader of ukraine was democratically elected,

Hundreds of protesters were killed by security forces and he was removed by parliament. Russia didn't like that so they invaded. Then they invaded more in 2022. It's not going well for Russia.

 

[direstraits]

Hundreds of protesters were killed by security forces and he was removed by parliament. Russia didn't like that so they invaded. Then they invaded more in 2022. It's not going well for Russia.

i dont see people pooping on the streets on russia as we see in sanfrancisco, and i dont see people losing their mind and doing drugs on the streets of russia as i see in kensington philadelphia, i dont see migrants lying on the streets of russia and looting cars as i see in paris, i dont see farmers protesting on the streets of russia as i see on the streets of brussels/rotterdam and london, russia has taken over 20% of ukraine and eradicated the azov nasis from these areas for the last several years even after being the most sanctioned country in the world and being cut off from SWIFT completely and is overtaking more territory every month so i think russia is doing pretty well, the toilet paper ukraine needs to think where they are headed to.

 

[OralAllOver]

At the end you hugely oversimplified. There's a large, informal group known as Siloviki. National prestige and flexing power internationally important to them I'm told. You don't want them too pissed off.
Also structural and economic factors. It's a war economy, millions unemployment with peace? MUCH WORSE what jobs for current soldiers? Imagine 200,000 jobless, restless and having secretly held onto assault rifles. Wow, that's a worse alternative for Putin

 

[OralAllOver]

i dont see people pooping on the streets on russia as we see in sanfrancisco, and i dont see people losing their mind and doing drugs on the streets of russia as i see in kensington philadelphia, i dont see migrants lying on the streets of russia and looting cars as i see in paris, i dont see farmers protesting on the streets of russia as i see on the streets of brussels/rotterdam and london, russia has taken over 20% of ukraine and eradicated the azov nasis from these areas for the last several years even after being the most sanctioned country in the world and being cut off from SWIFT completely and is overtaking more territory every month so i think russia is doing pretty well, the toilet paper ukraine needs to think where they are headed to.

Dude, if there are scratches on a Ferrari, you'd think it worse than a donkey cart

Russia has 2 okay cities and 11 time zones of urban crap traversed by few paved roads and less rails. Long haul truckers can be on dirt paths for chunks of the trip

Current life expectancy for men? 65 Alcohol. not Ukrainian munitions, the forever killer

 

[OralAllOver]

It's been a while, the last I checked, Russia's GDP/economy, with all its oil and resources, almost exactly the same as Italy. Italy! Huge Russia same wealth as Italy

Stop watching Fox News (not journalism)