They just didn't know

[BobbyBrandt]

In the video linked here, the reclusive artist known as "Banksy" set up a table outside Central Park. His study was aimed at seeing how many of his art pieces he could sell for $60 each if the people didn't recognize who had created them.

You need to recognize that entire walls of buildings have been stolen by people in order to get a Banksy painting but his identity has been a well kept secret.

On this day in NYC, he sold a total of $480. (I understand that the next day, each purchaser received an e-mail with a certificate of authenticity for their original Banksy work. Some sold their pieces for hundreds of thousands.)

Imagine how much he would have sold at $60 (worth at least $20K each) if the people knew who he was and what they would be getting.

So, my question is, "How much do you think that anonymity affects the value of your works in the eyes of readers?"

I'm not referring just to them knowing your name. How would readers knowing more about you in general influence your credibility or recognition as a writer, and do you ever consider this when compiling your profile on here? Your education level, other writing experiences, etc.

I know that I hadn't considered it myself. What about you?

 

[Duil2]

For me, I value the anonymity. The reason being that it helps me to know that readers who read my works and perhaps then vote, favorite the story or follow me, are doing so because they genuinely liked the art I produced and would like to experience more of it. Not because of my qualifications or some other random factor no-one could predict.

At this stage, with Banksy's works being so highly monetarily valued, I'd say it would be difficult for him to know if people buy his work because they like it, or just because it has his name, reputation and monetary value attached.

When I joined Literotica and published my first stories, I knew that if they weren't good I'd certainly know because without any promotion, connection, or previous reputation to fall back on, I was relying completely on the stories standing by themselves.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I have no credibility nor recognition as a writer. My stuff here doesn't even get me recognized here, so the point is moot for me.

The experiment would be if someone like silkstockinglover posted something on a secret alt, to see if it was as popular as her main acount stuff.

Is emilymcplugger as popular as emilymiller? Things that make you go hrmmm.

 

[Duil2]

I have no credibility nor recognition as a writer. My stuff here doesn't even get me recognized here, so the point is moot for me.

The experiment would be if someone like silkstockinglover posted something on a secret alt, to see if it was as popular as her main acount stuff.

Is emilymcplugger as popular as emilymiller? Things that make you go hrmmm.

You make a valid point here. Even without background information on the author, information is constantly accumulating that readers can use to decide if they want to try their works. This will primarily be based on the reactions of other readers and not personal information about the author but it still builds a reputation.

Just to mention though, out of your 16 stories, 10 have average scores of above 4 and none have fallen below 3 so I wouldn't say that's having no credibility or recognition.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You make a valid point here. Even without background information on the author, information is constantly accumulating that readers can use to decide if they want to try their works. This will primarily be based on the reactions of other readers and not personal information about the author but it still builds a reputation.

Just to mention though, out of your 16 stories, 10 have average scores of above 4 and none have fallen below 3 so I wouldn't say that's having no credibility or recognition.

What profile are you looking at? ALL of my scores are below average. My highest score is 4.34 which is about 30th-35th percentile for it's category (Romance). I have a few more hovering around 4.3 which is maybe 40th percentile site wide. I have EIGHT stories well below 4 which is like 5th percentile or worse. And my total hits (TOTAL) on 20 titles is 105k. I have only ONE story over 10k hits. I have 133 followers in 6 years. My profile is pathetic.

There are people who drop in on a whim and crush all that in 6 months.

 

[Britva415]

I cosplay as prolific bestselling author Judith Kranz in my profile.

Doesn't seem to be getting me any extra attention.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I cosplay as prolific bestselling author Judith Kranz in my profile.

OMG Judith Krantz sucks!

 

[AwkwardlySet]

What profile are you looking at? ALL of my scores are below average. My highest score is 4.34 which is about 30th-35th percentile for it's category (Romance). I have a few more hovering around 4.3 which is maybe 40th percentile site wide. I have EIGHT stories well below 4 which is like 5th percentile or worse. And my total hits (TOTAL) on 20 titles is 105k. I have only ONE story over 10k hits. I have 133 followers in 6 years. My profile is pathetic.

There are people who drop in on a whim and crush all that in 6 months.

I'd say you are using somewhat unfair metrics to judge your own writing. But putting that aside, how do YOU explain your, as you say, lack of success here?

 

[JojoLea]

"How much do you think that anonymity affects the value of your works in the eyes of readers?"

I think if you're anonymous in a new environment, your work must stand on its own. I saw Banksy's work as nothing special, though one of the prints of a rocket on the back of an elephant caught my attention. His result would have been very different if he'd been uptown another 20 or so blocks, near the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

There's a musician I follow, Steve Roach. His genre is ambient and electronic, mostly amelodic music. Yet I can tell when I hear his work, or when I hear his influence iin someone else's work. If you're not into that genre and you heard his work for the first time, you'd likely dismiss it.

If you enter a new environment where your audience doesn't know you, you're really on your own. You build followers based on the accessibility and approachability of your work.

 

[Duil2]

What profile are you looking at? ALL of my scores are below average. My highest score is 4.34 which is about 30th-35th percentile for it's category (Romance). I have a few more hovering around 4.3 which is maybe 40th percentile site wide. I have EIGHT stories well below 4 which is like 5th percentile or worse. And my total hits (TOTAL) on 20 titles is 105k. I have only ONE story over 10k hits. I have 133 followers in 6 years. My profile is pathetic.

There are people who drop in on a whim and crush all that in 6 months.

Okay, fair enough.
I suppose I'd be looking at things a little differently.
Personally, I'd be less worried about a site wide comparison of my average scores and just what scores each story achieved and is that pleasing enough to me.
Honestly, I'd be happy if I was getting above 4 average scores at all.
There are so many factors that feed into reader scoring and the quality of the writing is sometimes quite far down the list, it seems.
I can only speak for myself, but I write for my own enjoyment, first and foremost, and publish in the hopes that my enjoyment of the story I produced can be shared, even if that's only with a few others.
Any positive response I receive is a bonus and if the negative response includes any kind of constructive criticism I'll consider it and possibly try to improve in that area, if possible or desirable.
I am sorry that the reactions you've received over your six years on the site hasn't given you pleasure, but maybe that pleasure can be rediscovered in the process of creating and writing, rather than in other people's opinion, which will be fickle and inconsistent at best.

 

[Duil2]

I think if you're anonymous in a new environment, your work must stand on its own. I saw Banksy's work as nothing special, though one of the prints of a rocket on the back of an elephant caught my attention. His result would have been very different if he'd been uptown another 20 or so blocks, near the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

There's a musician I follow, Steve Roach. His genre is ambient and electronic, mostly amelodic music. Yet I can tell when I hear his work, or when I hear his influence iin someone else's work. If you're not into that genre and you heard his work for the first time, you'd likely dismiss it.

If you enter a new environment where your audience doesn't know you, you're really on your own. You build followers based on the accessibility and approachability of your work.

I agree.
And like it or not you also have to keep an eye on how you're perceived in the new environment.
Are you supportive of other authors' works? Do you rate and comment fairly? Do you interact in Forums with respect?
Initially it can be all about the work but over time it can become an amalgam of every interaction you have on the site.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'd say you are using somewhat unfair metrics to judge your own writing. But putting that aside, how do YOU explain your, as you say, lack of success here?

I'm not judging my writing. I'm judging my popularity. They are very separate things. How to explain it? I just don't write what people generally like to read. My stuff is unmarketable.

 

[Duil2]

I'm not judging my writing. I'm judging my popularity. They are very separate things. How to explain it? I just don't write what people generally like to read. My stuff is unmarketable.

So, if that's what you believe about your stories, surely how they're rated becomes irrelevant, no?
Once you're writing what you want to write and have an outlet through which you can publish it, wouldn't that be all that matters?
That way, those who like your stories can enjoy them, and those who don't... well who cares?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Okay, fair enough.
I suppose I'd be looking at things a little differently.
Personally, I'd be less worried about a site wide comparison of my average scores and just what scores each story achieved and is that pleasing enough to me.
Honestly, I'd be happy if I was getting above 4 average scores at all.
There are so many factors that feed into reader scoring and the quality of the writing is sometimes quite far down the list, it seems.
I can only speak for myself, but I write for my own enjoyment, first and foremost, and publish in the hopes that my enjoyment of the story I produced can be shared, even if that's only with a few others.
Any positive response I receive is a bonus and if the negative response includes any kind of constructive criticism I'll consider it and possibly try to improve in that area, if possible or desirable.
I am sorry that the reactions you've received over your six years on the site hasn't given you pleasure, but maybe that pleasure can be rediscovered in the process of creating and writing, rather than in other people's opinion, which will be fickle and inconsistent at best.

I'm not worried about anything. I don't care that the scores are terrible. The only reason that I would like higher scores is to get more views and despite the fact that that hasn't ever happened I have continued to publish. Quality of writing is even further down the list than you think and I've said that for years (and taken a fuckton of shit on this forum for it). I treat any response at all, even a troll response as gold. Don't be sorry. I came here to share my stories. I did that. That is success.

The truth is that I probably have the worst scores of any non-LW writer in the AH, and I'm probably the least popular writer in terms of hits, faves and followers in the AH. And trust me - it's NOT a badge of honor. It's just the truth.

 

[Duil2]

I'm not worried about anything. I don't care that the scores are terrible. The only reason that I would like higher scores is to get more views and despite the fact that that hasn't ever happened I have continued to publish. Quality of writing is even further down the list than you think and I've said that for years (and taken a fuckton of shit on this forum for it). I treat any response at all, even a troll response as gold. Don't be sorry. I came here to share my stories. I did that. That is success.

The truth is that I probably have the worst scores of any non-LW writer in the AH, and I'm probably the least popular writer in terms of hits, faves and followers in the AH. And trust me - it's NOT a badge of honor. It's just the truth.

I'm glad you're not worried and it isn't bothering you, and you feel you've been successful in your goal of sharing your stories. I've seen you mention it a few times on a few different threads, so I got the impression is was something that played on your mind, but it's great if it doesn't.

 

[anthrodisiac]

The experiment would be if someone like silkstockinglover posted something on a secret alt, to see if it was as popular as her main acount stuff.

Pretty much this.

Let's ask Richard Bachman. Oh, died of cancer of the pseudonym? RIP. Or Robert Galibraith, who really struggled until it "slipped" that it was JK Rowling, then all of a sudden, super popular and everyone's talking about how great the stories are.

Name recognition is everything nowadays. Harder to get it because of all the noise, and only those best at manipulating the algorithms by playing to outrage or the mediocre middle that is least offensive to the most people have any real shot. It's a lot less so in Lit, thank God, so someone like me actually has a chance at getting more than three people reading my stories. On a good day, I might even get double digits!

 

[TarnishedPenny]

There's an old story about a shoe store manager who put two identical pairs of ladies' shoes in the window, one showing a price of $45 and the other $575. Even though the clerks told the customers they were the same shoes, some insisted in paying $45, thinking hey were getting a steal of a deal, while others insisted on paying the higher price, presumably wanting to assure themselves thy could afford The Very Best.

I think it's the same with anonymous writing.

Actually, a better insight might be found in the renowned French artist Marcel Duchamp, who in 1917 took a used urinal, titled it 'Fountain' and submitted it to a top-flight contest. It's still, according to Wikipedia, considered "by art historians and theorists of the avant-garde as a major landmark in 20th-century art." (YMMV)

 

[KittyOfSteele]

To be honest, posting something anywhere as an artist feels more like playing with a slot machine. On the other hand, this also depends a lot on branding and riding those jackpots of exposure called virality like they were lightning. Bansky's anonymity is part of his brand; we all want to know who the hell is that guy. The brand is the product.

This is why my profile is an identity crisis.

 

[BeechLeaf]

This ongoing discussion is not quite right. There are two things here. Say we're waiting for a much-loved writer to produce their next work. For example, bi_cathy's next chapter of Strings Attached. There are loads of people waiting to leap on that, and it's guaranteed to get high appreciation.

Now suppose as an exercise she writes something under an alt. It could be deliberately different, but let's say it's her usual style. Vastly fewer people are going to see it, but those lucky few who do happen upon it will be going Wow! This is fantastic! They won't be going meh, an adequate attempt but not up to our heroes' style. Quality will out. All right, in this hypothetical example, reviews and comments will be more equivocal: 'Hey, you've got talent, I'd like to see if you can sustain this.'

I say this because I just reviewed an utterly extraordinarily good beginner writer, JennyCapricorn, and I want to advertise her. I was bowled over. No, I don't think she's secretly some established writer in disguise, I just mean we pay more attention to the known stars than to the newcomers. That's not the same as rating the unknown as worse than the known.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I say this because I just reviewed an utterly extraordinarily good beginner writer, JennyCapricorn, and I want to advertise her. I was bowled over. No, I don't think she's secretly some established writer in disguise, I just mean we pay more attention to the known stars than to the newcomers. That's not the same as rating the unknown as worse than the known.

I'll second that advertisement. Someone to keep an eye on, for sure.

 

[ElectricBlue]

At this stage, with Banksy's works being so highly monetarily valued, I'd say it would be difficult for him to know if people buy his work because they like it, or just because it has his name, reputation and monetary value attached.

His experiment proved the latter. He sold 8 works at $60, when people didn't know who he was.

In terms of the OP's question, it's meaningless really. When you start publishing here and build up a following, that's happening on the strength of your content, first and foremost. We're all anonymous here.

There comes a point if you produce volume and it's what the masses want, you become a writer with a very high following, and you could spin that off commercially, but that's rare.

The test, as others have posted, is whether any of the site's runaway top writers would have the same success publishing as another account. But if they're successful at hiding their alts, we'll never know. I can't think of a single instance where someone has said, "Well, I think so-and-so is writer X." All of the multiple accounts writers I can think of have outed themselves at some point, or I'm sworn to secrecy.

 

[Stanfield2025]

Man... I've thought long and hard about the value of clout in general.

Name and profile carries so much weight, and I only began appreciating that when I started putting anything on Lit. I don't even think talent matters quite as much. Clouted-up writers can get away with stuff new writers (as far as I've seen) can't, cause whatever they write is accepted by their reader base. And from what I understand, that kind of clout takes years to build. It's why people work so hard to build their own brands.

Stephen King, for example, can do whatever he wants because he's a somebody. I mean, his name matters more than the titles of his stories. That's why he can name a novel It and make bank.

 

[Stanfield2025]

For me, I value the anonymity. The reason being that it helps me to know that readers who read my works and perhaps then vote, favorite the story or follow me, are doing so because they genuinely liked the art I produced and would like to experience more of it. Not because of my qualifications or some other random factor no-one could predict.

I haven't thought of that angle before. I very much respect it though.

When I joined Literotica and published my first stories, I knew that if they weren't good I'd certainly know because without any promotion, connection, or previous reputation to fall back on, I was relying completely on the stories standing by themselves.

I get this, but one issue I see is that people can't judge it if they don't know about it. Talent alone probably won't get a story the recognition it deserves. If you wrote a 10/10 story but didn't promote it or have any reputation and as a result, nobody read it, would that be a fair assessment of how good it is?

 

[anthrodisiac]

Man... I've thought long and hard about the value of clout in general.

Name and profile carries so much weight, and I only began appreciating that when I started putting anything on Lit. I don't even think talent matters quite as much. Clouted-up writers can get away with stuff new writers (as far as I've seen) can't, cause whatever they write is accepted by their reader base. And from what I understand, that kind of clout takes years to build. It's why people work so hard to build their own brands.

Stephen King, for example, can do whatever he wants because he's a somebody. I mean, his name matters more than the titles of his stories. That's why he can name a novel It and make bank.

And why I haven't read anything of his written past Doctor Sleep. It feels like he's phoning it in these days, which is sad, because he really is one of my biggest writing inspirations.

 

[SimonDoom]

Are you asking about the world "out there" or "in here" at Literotica? The answer is completely different depending on what you mean.

In the real world of mainstream publishing, or of visual art, a name brand is extremely important. People will buy the art works of name artists just because they are name artists. Out of all the people who write books, a few rise to the top, get name recognition, and make millions because people keep buying their books at airports when they see their name on the book.

This is a factor here at Literotica, but it's much less of a factor. I imagine there is a very high degree of churn among readers here, and most don't care who the author is, or have any clue about their past success. They see a story that looks appealing, they open it up, and if they like it they read and maybe come back and read more of that author's works.

I was a Literotica reader for over ten years before I became a Literotica author, and I still have the perspective of a reader. As a reader, I would come here, browse around, and if a story looked interesting I'd click on it and if it held my interest for a few paragraphs I'd read it. Once I felt I could count on an author to deliver a story I liked, I'd be more inclined to seek out more stories by that author. But I never gave a hoot about that author's credentials or background. It's not that complicated. I imagine many of the thousands of Literotica readers today do exactly the same thing.

There are authors here who achieve success quickly, because they write stories people want to read, and they do so consistently. This continues to be true. It helps to write stories in high-trafficked categories, but there are plenty of examples of authors who have achieved "success" without writing a single incest story.