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This is why I left the last time

princessgoddess said:
The people that attacked me here today could not possibly be in the same Lifestyle that I am in.
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Yep, we're not. THANK GOD!

catalina_francisco said:
Nope, it's the 4th I think. I merged to 2 threads for the competition....she didn't think the first one was successful in just the way she demanded so posted it again. I guess if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Very trying.

Catalina:catroar:
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Ah, I wondered what happened to the other thread.
 
catalina_francisco said:
Me neither, I've been polite and clear at all times.:(

Catalina:catroar:
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Quite frankly, I'd have been SHOCKED if you'd been anything less. I've seen you in full out argument, and you're usually polite and clear. I can't recall the last time you used a swear word.
 
PrincessGoddess said:
But, I decide when it is best for me to answer a sub. They don't decide that for me. :)
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Yep, and when you identify as a sub, but want people to feel your the greatest Domme on earth, it could be too confusing trying to decide whether to talk to a sub incase you get caught out. Interesting how many things like this huge contradiction you keep ignoring despite it being mentioned possibly at least 30 times. Selective answering or are you still researching how to talk your way out of that one?:confused:

Catalina:catroar:
 
graceanne said:
Quite frankly, I'd have been SHOCKED if you'd been anything less. I've seen you in full out argument, and you're usually polite and clear. I can't recall the last time you used a swear word.
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LOL, yep, seems according to my mother that I inherited her mother's infinite patience...she has always said she had never known anyone to maintain such calm as her mother, until I was born...takes a lot to get me riled, and usually it is likely to be something done to someone else more so than to myself.:D

Catalina:catroar:
 
graceanne said:
The NOW thread. I can't recall the whole thing, but she wanted to play some game NOW. After that was the 'lit isn't a place to go to find nice people' thread and then this one. Their was a copy of the original thread, but I think it got deleted.
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Nah, we aren't allowed to delete threads, nor have the ability...I merged them.

Catalina:catroar:
 
I'm gonna go out of my way to be nicer even. princessgoddess, check this out and then tell us you neither learn something, and/or get a chuckle.:rose: Of course, you could be the first to claim you missed on both counts.:(

Catalina:catroar:
 
Yup, I have often thought it would make less work for them if mods could delete threads, but we can't. We just move 'em to a special place and eventually they get nuked.
 
PrincessGoddess said:
Well, you have to have a sub to be able to be qualified to discuss the ground rules of the challenge, and any means by which you would like to counter with variations on the challenge itself. If you have a sub now, or intend to acquire one, I still believe that this experiment is a valid one. Throw the question to your sub friends as to what are good tests for a sub to perform in a competitive type of environment. A sub is the best place to look for that kind of suggestion. Since I only presented the challenge today, and have yet to have any takers on the matter, then we haven't really gotten to where it was necessary to examine if any of the original ground rules for the challenge should be modified.

Let me take on your accusations against me one at a time, and see if I can address them in a reasonable, logical, manner that you can easily understand:

You belittle the value in a submissive's thoughts.

Well, I don't know where you happened to actually get this from, but let me try to answer it by saying that I have the final say on determining whether or not anyone's opinion, sub or not, has any value or validity, and whether or not it is a benefit to me. If I am not deriving a benefit or getting some kind of useful insight from it, then I would be better off knowing something like who won last night's games in the National League.

You ignored ones who actually tried to turn your rant of self righteous bullshit into something that could be discussed.

Ah, now who is being self-righteous, hmmmm? I read every post that you wrote, and it is not possible to determine the value of an experiment until you know the results. Funny how science works like that. Whereas if I lay down the gauntlet on a challenge say, "I challenge you in a game of chess", and then you come up with different reasons why you can't accept the challenge, "I only play chess well on Mondays, and it is Saturday", "The pieces are the wrong colors", "this room is bugged (Bobby Fischer)", then it sounds like the person making the statements is simply refusing the challenge, and that way it doesn't make them look like they are actually just avoiding the challenge altogether.

You mocked those who thought that your situation was flawed

Wow, I did not know that it was possible to determine if an experiment was flawed until after it was conducted. I have no doubt that you are an excellent advisor and confidante to the person who owns you, but since I don't own you, I can't make you go to your room and write down on paper that statement and rephrase it so that it is not a declaritive of inaccuracies.

And you resorted to profanity and telling people's master on them.

Yes I did use profanity, very rare for me. Those who know me know that I am exceptionally slow to anger, but that I have been known to let one slip. For those offended by profanity, my apologies indeed. As to informing the owner of a transgression against me by a charge of theirs, it is my right, and duty to do so. Being honest and telling a Dominant like it is will do more to assist them than anything else that you can do. Allowing the sub to believe that they can do impolite things to others and get away without answering to their Dominant does not serve a productive purpose. Call me Old Leather Guard for holding that opinion, but it is mine and I intend to keep it.

Okay, hopefully that addressed your interaction on the subject matter that was the instigator of all the nastiness. You have, during this entire time, presented what you had to say in a respectful, kind, manner, that all submissives would be able to learn from. Non-judgmental, and at the same time, containing constructive criticism, your insights are a testament to your intelligence. If you get a sub of your own, and want to do the challenge with me, we can change any number of aspects of the challenge to a MUTUALLY AGREEABLE THING. But, the sub has to be an untrained, newbie sub.

See, I was not ignoring you. But, I decide when it is best for me to answer a sub. They don't decide that for me. Thank you for your insight :)
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*giggles* I don't know where to start.

I do appreciate that you decided to address me in a more polite manner, but I would like to clarify myself a bit.

I do not seek to participate in the challenge, but instead discuss the various outcomes and the popular methods to be used. A thesis if you will, a presentation on how the experiment should be carried out. I do believe that the reasonings and the theory that is asked to be proven here is a valid one and one worth exploring, minus the "I'm more talented than you" aspect of things. The challenge does not interest me, how ever the theories to be proven does.

The manners in which you described that the challenge would be carried out were determined as flawed, not the experiment nor the theories behind it, but mostly it was the manner of presentation that was seen as abrasive.

As I have mentioned several times, the topic itself is one I would like to further discuss, actually carrying on the experiment as it is now called, does not seem very feasible to me. If I were in a sociology field, or some other scientific occupation where I could be paid to do this and afford to put the time into it, then I might consider field study. But then, most of us here on lit have other jobs and lives to lead that do not lend themselves to the liquid nature this experiment would call for.

As to the tasks to be preformed, I can not think of one that would be a "true show of submission". A beating would only prove that the subject has built up a tolerance or is a pain slut to begin with. A display of posture would only prove that a sub sits the way the asking party requires them to. Smile pretty? well again that is something that is not regulated as would be any other forms of beauty. What I consider beautiful, you may very well consider horrendous. Manners are not displays of submission but of edict.

No, in order to properly conduct such an experiment, one would need to administer all forms of "training" one's self. That would be the only way to prevent such variables and prevent multiple uses of the same training method. Then one would need a control sub, an outsider not involved in the experiment itself.

I'm more interested in how the different methods effect the sub in question. How much longer does it take for a sub to learn...how I like my eggs cooked when they are belittled as appose to the use of positive reinforcement? How is their emotional health affected during the corse of training? How much longer does the relationship last, or perhaps a better question would be, which subject shows signs of a deeper level of devotion first? Of course, in order to prove these things you would also have to have subjects with a similar disposition, or again cause variables.

As to your last paragraph, I will remain civil as I have been through out, but I will point out that it could be seen as you trying to put a submissive in her place. This act, if that is your intention, is not appreciated by me, nor would it be by my owner, had this been in a live setting and not words in cyber space. Perhaps this was seen as proper behavior in another setting, as was disciplining some one else's children at one point, but it is not considered proper conduct here, and just as I would conduct myself in the way that my host expects if I were at a party or gathering, I would expect no less from some one who enters these boards.
 
the captians wench said:
As to your last paragraph, I will remain civil as I have been through out, but I will point out that it could be seen as you trying to put a submissive in her place. This act, if that is your intention, is not appreciated by me, nor would it be by my owner, had this been in a live setting and not words in cyber space. Perhaps this was seen as proper behavior in another setting, as was disciplining some one else's children at one point, but it is not considered proper conduct here, and just as I would conduct myself in the way that my host expects if I were at a party or gathering, I would expect no less from some one who enters these boards.
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*claps enthusiastically*
 
I'm just sad nobody else has agreed with the Mugabe thing yet. :( Dammit, I have a reputation to uphold here! :mad:
 
graceanne said:
Yay! You got acknowledged, wenchie!

And someone has a serious god complex.
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EmpressFi said:
See that Wenchie.. you were respectful and the way all of us lil subbies should aspire to be
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Yeah, seems as if she waited until I was asleep to do so. :rolleyes:

Guess that shows me that things don't work on my time. :rolleyes:

Metomorphoses said:
Wait, a submissive is the best place to look for suggestions on how to be a good submissive, yet you refused to discuss ideas to measure submissiveness for your challenge with submissives in the other thread? Huh?



Maybe she got the idea from your posts in the contest thread -









etc, etc...



People attempted to discuss your idea (suggesting flaws in the plan, pointing out that Lit is a free speech site, trying to explain that the discussion could be improved upon if all members - submissive and dominant alike - were given a chance to voice their views), and your response was to ignore anyone's comments that didn't fall completely in lock-step with your own. I'd call that rather egotistical, and self-rightous, yes.



If you'd had the humility to listen to what people were trying to say to you (instead of being a control-freak), an interesting discussion might have evolved. I'd even go further and say Wench was quite accurate in her verbage, given that things such as -



... qualifies as "mocking," in my book (and many other's).



Okies, babe... given that you've got ads posted in the Personals section declaring yourself a submissive, I'd like the name and contact information for the person you consider your Domme (or Mentor, should you have one). Based on the bolded part above, I believe it is our right and duty to bring your impolite behaviour to their attention, so they may discuss it with you. Given the importance of Old Leather Guard civility and all that...



This I'm not even going to address... personally, I can't imagine a worse way to introduce a clueless newfound submissive to "the lifestyle."
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Thank you. :)
 
Netzach said:
You are not fit to kiss wenchie's feet. She's a nice person trying to reason with you, even defending you and you're treating her like a pompous ass would. In fact, if you're Old Guard, often you don't get to talk to her at all. You talk to her Owner. If her Owner is fine with what she's doing you piss off. You think you have etiquitte and you have none.
.
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Awe :eek: But Netz, I've never had my feet kissed by a girl before. *giggles*

And just a side note, Jounar says if I want to waist my time on all of this to go for it, just don't bug him about it. *giggles*
 
I wonder where she is?

Maybe she is working so she can save up the money for her sex change operation.

Then maybe she won't be such a dick. :D
 
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Daddy2mylilgirl said:
I wonder where (s)he is?

Maybe (s)he is working so (s)he can save up the money for its sex change operation.

Then maybe (s)he won't be such a dick. :D
Click to expand...

Now now...money is not the only reason some people are non-op. And using "it" to refer to a trans person is demeaning, all kinks aside. If PG's life story (as posted in the "Trans 4 U" threads in BDSM/GLBT Personals) is to be believed, she is a sort of David Reimer, an intersexed child raised as the wrong gender, who adopts their "true" gender as an adult. I can see LOTS of reasons why someone in that situation wouldn't be interested in reassignment surgery. In fact, if she is indeed schussing down the slopes of Aspen, money probably isn't the reason.

However, regardless of all gender issues, PG is being a complete dick, I agree with you there!
 
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