Total Newb Question: BDSM is about sex, right?

[teknight]

How old is primalex, anyway? I've always figured him to be fairly young-- an inexperienced pontificator.

Profile says 34. He's more than half way to andropause.

 

[midwestyankee]

Profile says 34. He's more than half way to andropause.

And what, pray tell, does this signify? Since the number of years one has survived is of no merit in and of itself, how can it have any other value good or bad?

 

[teknight]

And what, pray tell, does this signify? Since the number of years one has survived is of no merit in and of itself, how can it have any other value good or bad?

Did you read that as having a moral value? It was just an observation. If you acknowledge andropause to be a thing, it occurs in your 40s or 50s, right? That's it.

I dunno how my rant is coming across. I'm not saying anyone who is old is stupid, or worthless, or whatever. Furthermore I am not saying that my youth makes me fucking special (smart, what have you). My rant applies to me as much as it applies to people of any age.

 

[midwestyankee]

Did you read that as having a moral value? It was just an observation. If you acknowledge andropause to be a thing, it occurs in your 40s or 50s, right? That's it.

I dunno how my rant is coming across. I'm not saying anyone who is old is stupid, or worthless, or whatever. Furthermore I am not saying that my youth makes me fucking special (smart, what have you). My rant applies to me as much as it applies to people of any age.

I was mostly twisting your feather, but in a sense my question remains: what is the point of adding that he is "half way to andropause"? What does that information add to the observation? And if it adds nothing, then why is it there?

 

[JMohegan]

When I was in college, I had never heard the term BDSM. But if someone had asked me: What's the point of controlling females, or tying up, spanking, biting, and generally roughhousing with females, I would have answered: sex.

Obviously, sex. What the fuck else would you call it?

And that answer would have been 100% correct. For me. In college.

Fast forward, my needs changed, my experiences shifted. Now my answer is different. That doesn't mean I think all 21 year olds should genuflect in my general direction. But I do feel comfortable calling bullshit on those who call bullshit on the 'more than sex' answer.

 

[teknight]

I was mostly twisting your feather, but in a sense my question remains: what is the point of adding that he is "half way to andropause"? What does that information add to the observation? And if it adds nothing, then why is it there?

'cause I ( think I) am a sarcastic SOB? Cause it's subtly (I think) undermining his high and mighty position of age as meaning something.

And let go of my feather, you old perv! I never consented to feather play!

 

[midwestyankee]

'cause I ( think I) am a sarcastic SOB? Cause it's subtly (I think) undermining his high and mighty position of age as meaning something.

And let go of my feather, you old perv! I never consented to feather play!

At my age I don't have time to ask for consent.

 

[teknight]

At my age I don't have time to ask for consent.

Well, OK, then, gramps.

You may play with my feather.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Its validity is not apparent to me, especially not for the reason of you claiming experience, nor because you use age as an argument to prove your experience.

Let me go further still and state my belief, my conviction:
there is nothing meritorious about age. Not. A. Damn. Thing. You're old? Good for you! That you've lived a number of years means nothing to me: not that you're smarter, not that you're more experienced, not that you know more, not that you're enlightened. If you choose to claim any of those, base your proof not on your age, not on a number, but on other things. Show me that you think. Demonstrate to me your experience. Share your knowledge. And be aware of the fact that I will question you at every apparent inconsistency. If you want to show me your worth, you'd better answer those questions satisfactorily, or, else, I cannot and shall not respect you.

See this is where you have missed the point...the older members who have not agreed totally with what has been said have said so in an adult way and have not used their age as an argument to prove their experience. In fact it was some younger members who decided that was what was being said and made the decision to take offence (and this is a common occurrance around here) when it was mentioned that with passing years, things change in many ways including attitudes and experiences. It is just a fact of life except for the few people who are incapable of growth or feel it makes them look stupid to admit they have changed or seen something they didn't before.

But seeing as you keep tying the statements and views to age, and you feel so set in your view that age and experience mean nothing to you, don't deserve your time or respect, I can ask how the heck would you know this from a point of experience at the tender age of 26? Sheesh, I am twice your age and still don't have such a narrow view as to feel I know everything and am above all wise, while on the other hand claiming to be here to learn from others. Do you mean you only wish to learn from people your age or younger because they are the only ones who are valid and worthy of your respect and time? Or is it you just come here when you are bored as you do seem to say often that what most here do is really not your thing? I have to thank you because I hadn't actually tied anything to age specifically, but once again I learned something and have been shown that indeed being young for some might be a huge handicap.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

When I was in college, I had never heard the term BDSM. But if someone had asked me: What's the point of controlling females, or tying up, spanking, biting, and generally roughhousing with females, I would have answered: sex.

Obviously, sex. What the fuck else would you call it?

And that answer would have been 100% correct. For me. In college.

Fast forward, my needs changed, my experiences shifted. Now my answer is different. That doesn't mean I think all 21 year olds should genuflect in my general direction. But I do feel comfortable calling bullshit on those who call bullshit on the 'more than sex' answer.

LOL, be careful....you will be getting called an old fart too soon and that you need to prove your wisdom and experience before being considered worthy of respect. Oh I so wish I could be 20 something again so I could be so knowledgeable...but then to what point if in the future at 50 something I would have gone backward to knowing and experiencing nothing in my lifetime?!!

Catalina

 

[teknight]

But seeing as you keep tying the statements and views to age, and you feel so set in your view that age and experience mean nothing to you, don't deserve your time or respect, I can ask how the heck would you know this from a point of experience at the tender age of 26? Sheesh, I am twice your age and still don't have such a narrow view as to feel I know everything and am above all wise, while on the other hand claiming to be here to learn from others. Do you mean you only wish to learn from people your age or younger because they are the only ones who are valid and worthy of your respect and time? Or is it you just come here when you are bored as you do seem to say often that what most here do is really not your thing? I have to thank you because I hadn't actually tied anything to age specifically, but once again I learned something and have been shown that indeed being young for some might be a huge handicap.

Catalina

I never said that. You misconstrue.
I am inexperienced in many a thing.
I said that it's not the number of years that serves as a valid reason for claiming experience.
I never said experience is meaningless, or, if you feel I did, please point it out. I might not have expressed myself as clearly as I could have. I never said older people have nothing to teach me. I said that i would question their claims. I don't see why that is a bad thing. Do you accept everything that is told to you as being true? Do you not question apparent inconsistencies? Is that what learning is? A purely passive process?

ETA: for the bolded, underlined part:
I know I don't know. I believe that. I don't always show it, perhaps, it doesn't come across, and at times I do forget that point of view. Even if I am not wise, how am I to ever get wise if I don't ask questions? Or does respect entail that I can't question anything? I am here to learn, but that doesn't mean that what everyone has to say is valid. It doesn't mean it is invalid either. I just don't know. The best thing I can do is ask questions and try to acknowledge my own assumptions and gaps of knowledge, when I am so prompted. Do I always do that? No. I am not perfect, nor will ever claim that. I am, at most, perfectible.

Here's another funny thing:
Age is basically set in stone. You are the age that you are. Experience, however, especially for the purposes of this conversation is a vague term- experience in what? General life experience? Isn't that a personal thing? Experience within the scene? That is something that can be taught, and shown, and proven. Experience, for any given set of events of knowledge, can be demonstrated. Can I not ask for that?

Is it disrespectful to ask questions, and, furthermore to ask that those that teach me (or purport to) know what they are doing? I don't believe so. They can demonstrate their experience, should they choose to, and I can accept it and say "Thank you, I've learned something" or be obtuse and say "WTF are you talking about?" That lies solely with me, how good of a student I can be. That is where I too can be measured (and found wanting).

 

[Netzach]

At 37 I think I get to say something.

Yes, there's a lot that has changed and shifted and re-arranged in my life since i was 25. Or whatever chronological age we're arguing about.

There's also a lot that hasn't. And it's fucking insulting when people imply it will. You know that whole feminist "expert on your own life" thing?

Maybe being kinky is "just a phase" for you which will sort itself out at 70 or something and you'll realize you were a sinful freakshow with problems all along. Or maybe we just get to decide what feels fixed for us, personally.

 

[Stella_Omega]

At 37 I think I get to say something.

Yes, there's a lot that has changed and shifted and re-arranged in my life since i was 25. Or whatever chronological age we're arguing about.

There's also a lot that hasn't. And it's fucking insulting when people imply it will. Maybe being kinky is "just a phase" for you which will sort itself out at 70 or something and you'll realize you were a sinful freakshow with problems all along.

Don't you hate when that happens?

 

[teknight]

At 37 I think I get to say something.

Yes, there's a lot that has changed and shifted and re-arranged in my life since i was 25. Or whatever chronological age we're arguing about.

There's also a lot that hasn't. And it's fucking insulting when people imply it will. You know that whole feminist "expert on your own life" thing?

Maybe being kinky is "just a phase" for you which will sort itself out at 70 or something and you'll realize you were a sinful freakshow with problems all along. Or maybe we just get to decide what feels fixed for us, personally.

Sorry. You have to be at least 38 to make any claims that will be considered. </sarcasm>

But I agree with you, and not just where kink is concerned.

 

[Netzach]

Don't you hate when that happens?

Seriously. I am open to all possibilites so I may start that ballet career any day now.

 

[ImOnIt]

Is it disrespectful to ask questions, and, furthermore to ask that those that teach me (or purport to) know what they are doing? I don't believe so.

Your question in the thread title indicates a prior belief - that BDSM is about sex.

'Knowing what you are doing' is not measurable, and is impossible to demonstrate.

Someone declaring 'im old' is neither here nor there. If someone has 20 or 40 years on you, they communicate differently now to the way THEY did at your age, and differently again for being raised in a different decade and place in the world. That means that both parties need to make an effort to understand the intent and message.

 

[teknight]

Your question in the thread title indicates a prior belief - that BDSM is about sex.

'Knowing what you are doing' is not measurable, and is impossible to demonstrate.

Someone declaring 'im old' is neither here nor there. If someone has 20 or 40 years on you, they communicate differently now to the way THEY did at your age, and differently again for being raised in a different decade and place in the world. That means that both parties need to make an effort to understand the intent and message.

For the first time I respect you and your point of view. Didn't think I'd be capable of that.

I am sorry, but I disagree. Much as "knowing what you are doing" is a vague phrase (regardless of who uses it, it references nothing specific, so it is...a bit meaningless) it doesn't mean that you can't do something right (and I guess I am refering to performing a specific action). Whether there is only one right way to do X or whether it's more lax than that, you can do it right just as you can do it wrong. That is measurable in my mind. If you don't like the word itself for whatever reason, I am not refering to whipping out measuring tapes and check sheets.

You're absolutely right. Other people are just that other people, individuals, shaped by their accumulated experiences. I was merely pointing out that I don't find merit in age itself as a means of accounting for experience. And, again, the term is vague. Saying I'm right 'cause I'm 60" is as wrong as saying "I'm right 'cause I'm 20." It's what you've learned in those x years that is relevant, not the amount of time it's taken you to get there.

 

[JMohegan]

At 37 I think I get to say something.

Yes, there's a lot that has changed and shifted and re-arranged in my life since i was 25. Or whatever chronological age we're arguing about.

There's also a lot that hasn't. And it's fucking insulting when people imply it will. You know that whole feminist "expert on your own life" thing?

Maybe being kinky is "just a phase" for you which will sort itself out at 70 or something and you'll realize you were a sinful freakshow with problems all along. Or maybe we just get to decide what feels fixed for us, personally.

I remember people telling me that my priorities would shift, my perspective would be altered, I'd change and grow and so on.

I didn't find it insulting in the slightest. I was sure, so sure that they had no idea what they were talking about. I just knew they were wrong, but it didn't matter to me that they were.

 

[Stella_Omega]

For the first time I respect you and your point of view. Didn't think I'd be capable of that.

I am sorry, but I disagree. Much as "knowing what you are doing" is a vague phrase (regardless of who uses it, it references nothing specific, so it is...a bit meaningless) it doesn't mean that you can't do something right (and I guess I am refering to performing a specific action). Whether there is only one right way to do X or whether it's more lax than that, you can do it right just as you can do it wrong. That is measurable in my mind. If you don't like the word itself for whatever reason, I am not refering to whipping out measuring tapes and check sheets.

You're absolutely right. Other people are just that other people, individuals, shaped by their accumulated experiences. I was merely pointing out that I don't find merit in age itself as a means of accounting for experience. And, again, the term is vague. Saying I'm right 'cause I'm 60" is as wrong as saying "I'm right 'cause I'm 20." It's what you've learned in those x years that is relevant, not the amount of time it's taken you to get there.

Well, I can't really remember ever hearing someone say; "I'm right because I'm 60," as a flat statement.

I might say "At 60 I know when I'm right" (in six years time) but that's more like a shorthand for "After 60 years of experience I can pretty much rely on my own judgment" with the corollary "and maybe you should too." You might not agree with my judgment yourself. That's not age dependent though.

 

[Primalex]

How old is primalex, anyway? I've always figured him to be fairly young-- an inexperienced pontificator.

It should know that it can just ask me, if it wants to know something about me. It doesn't need to talk about me with others.

 

[teknight]

Well, I can't really remember ever hearing someone say; "I'm right because I'm 60," as a flat statement.

I might say "At 60 I know when I'm right" (in six years time) but that's more like a shorthand for "After 60 years of experience I can pretty much rely on my own judgment" with the corollary "and maybe you should too." You might not agree with my judgment yourself. That's not age dependent though.

I swear that's what I've been saying. It's not age dependent.
I would hope that, at any age, one would be able to say "I can rely on my own judgment"- even if that judgment tells them to seek others' help.

It should know that it can just ask me, if it wants to know something about me. It doesn't need to talk about me with others.

Just 'cause it's not worded in the second person:"How old are you, PA?" doesn't mean the question is not addressed to you.
Insulting her deliberately won't make you sound older, fella. It makes you sound hurt and upset.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I would hope that, at any age, one would be able to say "I can rely on my own judgment"- even if that judgment tells them to seek others' help.

Well the problem is when one says that-- and someone else disagrees with one. When the reason for the disagreement is one's inexperience, one might be tempted to accuse someone of leaning on their age as a badge of authority.

It should know that it can just ask me, if it wants to know something about me. It doesn't need to talk about me with others.

This made it laugh out loud.

Dude, it doesn't know much about you at all, except that you go out of your way to be an abrasive little cockroach. And frankly, it doesn't care-- the comment wasn't about you at all, it was about someone else's reaction to your vaunted age and experience.

 

[Primalex]

Insulting her deliberately won't make you sound older, fella. It makes you sound hurt and upset.

About what insult are you talking right now? pontificator?

Or do you want to say that insults only make it sound older but not me?

*scratches his chin*

The virtual life is so complicated...right and wrong always depends on the persons, not on the act. I always forget this here.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The whole insult is "Inexperienced pontificator."

So far I have seen nothing that changes my mind about that.

 

[Primalex]

The whole insult is "Inexperienced pontificator."

Oh, sorry, I thought an experienced pontificator would be worse than an inexperienced pontificator. Interesting point of view - is a bad liar worse than a good liar, too? *ponders*

So far I have seen nothing that changes my mind about that.

Why would you care to change your mind anyway? And why would I care about the mind of a jaundiced hag?