Trying to Understand Men...

[eudaemonia]

and after hearing some of these responses, i'm starting to think that HE thinks i didn't give him ANY hints.

And he would be right.

I'm just like you, thinking that I'm wearing it all on my sleeve. But really, I'm not. It doesn't sound like you are either ...

And, just like you, I'm having my own little drama about asking him out. I just realized today (before I read your thread) that the man I've had my heart set on has been dropping quite a bit more personal info about himself in the last few months than I have. So it's my turn to step up to the plate.

Maybe it's time you did, too?

 

[Recidiva]

I can do that.

Yes, I did discover that. I'm too patient. Mostly it had to turn into stalking and being called incredibly fucking dense for a smart person. It's okay, I have a good sense of humor and the men ended up appreciating that I can take anger and frustration well

 

[jerseyman1963]

He's interested

He's totally flirting with you, and he's interested. I'm a few years older than this guy (early 40's) and while you'd think at this point he'd be coming right to the point, I sense that we're a lot alike. He's testing the waters without coming right out and saying so. Or at least I think this is one possibility. You'd think that at his age or mine we'd be at the point where we could just get to the point, but you'd be surprised. Being a salesman he may take rejection at work all the time, and you'd think that means he could take it in his personal life, but you'd be surprised. Also, another possibility is that, since you mentioned you work in a golf club I assume he's some sort of member, or if it's not a membership club, that he plays there a lot. He knows you are in one of your work places, and he does not want to embarrass either you or himself in such a setting. So he's gently testing the waters in a way that does not have either one of you all the way out on a limb. He may not want to be known around the course as a lech that hits on everything that moves. The reason I think I "know" this guy is that my sister says I need to be hit over the head with a baseball bat before I realize a woman is interested, and it's true. There are a lot of reasons, and they're just too numerous to mention here. But in my case, while I am not entirely shy about asking someone out, I can be, especially when I like them, because I can't conceive that they might like me too. I frequently miss the signals, and I think he may be too. I could be completely wrong about all of this. I don't know either you or him. But it certainly sounds, from what you describe, that he's interested. The phone number on the back of the receipt was the biggest tip off. So I say go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. No guts, no glory. (Give me some more time and I'll come up with a few more cliches.) Next time he comes in, ring him up, write your number on the back of the receipt, and tell him if he'd like, you have no plans for dinner. Or something like that. You can start the dnner conversation by telling him how you were interested, but you were involved at the time, and it was your workplace, but now you're not involved, and it's not your primary workplace, and although you wouldn't want to create an awkward situation for him or you at the golf course if the date didn't work out, you decided what the heck. That sets the whole thing up to go wherever it's going to go without too much risk of embarrassment if it doesn't work out. Again, not knowing either of you, and only knowing the situation from what you've told us, this could be many things. But you're never gonna know until one of you makes the next move, and from what you've told us, the next move is yours. As for "understanding guys," well, we'll probably be as much of a mystery to you for the next 20-30-40 years of your life as you (women) are to us. We've all been through some stuff, we all react differently, sometimes we meet your expectations and sometimes we don't, sometimes we act just the way youn want us to and sometimes we don't. We (men) think the same thing about you (women) frequently, but it's just human nature, no more, and no less. My gay and lesbia friends say the same thing about their paramours, and those are same sex relationships. Our life experiences play a big part in it. I am always amazed when someone expresses interest in me, and frankly I love it when someone comes right out and asks me out or just plain hits on me. Call me lazy, but I like it when someone else takes the big step. Not that it happens every day, it doesn't, but it's always a cool thing. Makes me perk up and say, "Hey now! THAT was nice! Who knew?" You always read about models and good looking celebrities saying things like they don't know or think about how good looking they are, they always thought they were ugly, etc. and I think it's true. Think about yourself. Do you walk around 24/7 thinking about how good looking you are? Probably not. And neither does this guy. He's testing the waters because he's interested, but keeping close enough to the edge of the pool to get back out if the water is not as warm (hot?) as he'd like it to be. Take it a little further and see what happens. And let us know. Good luck.

 

[Batman4ever71]

As a former sales person I can speak from experience that we are "groomed" for rejection. He might be throwing those open invites out to test the water as previously stated. He also knows that you stopped seeing eachother previously for a reason. Maybe he doesn't know that reason, whether he did something wrong, or you did. I know that in my first marriage, I was made to feel that everything was my fault. I took that to heart and annoyed the hell out of some of the women I dated before meeting my fiancee by constantly asking; "What's wrong?"....lol

Seriously though, his insecurities are more than likely what is holding him back from taking that step towards asking you out again. I know that I was always intimidated by women. In the dating realm, I thought they held all the cards and after many, many turn downs, I just came to expect it. Therefore, why bother? I say go ahead and write your number on the back of his scorecard. That way, your not asking him out, but giving him the permission he is so obviously waiting for to do so.

As for him being cocky, this almost always relates to the sales field as well. Salespeople have to put on a confident aire most of the time in order to give the customer confidene that they are making the right decision about whatever they are buying. Even though I've been out of the sales game for four years, I have 16yrs in and it's a hard habit to break. Look past the over confident face and see the man with the same frailties and insecurities as everyone else. You'll thank yourself for it!!!!


BTW?? For those who posted all that stuff about men only wanting a few things in life..........you forgot "Conquor"

 

[jujee]

Thank you all.

Thanks everyone, for your words of advice and encouragement.

Unfortunately? *sighs* He didn't come in today.

I know this is a busy time of year for him though. He has a side thing hosting guided hunts. So, he is busy.

Part of me wants to go back in tomorrow, in case he stops in. (When I worked there regularly, he normally came in on Sundays.) But I don't really have an excuse to just show up there and hang out...

Otherwise, I'm going to have to wait yet another month... Oh well.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

P.S.
BATMAN4EVER71? He and I have never gone out. Not sure where I may have made it sound that way... When I said we saw each other often, I meant I was working at the course full time, and he would come in a few times a week. Innocent flirting is the farthest we've gotten.

 

[Batman4ever71]

Oooopppss!! Sorry. It was MY mistake. I re-read everything and I guess I was of leave of my senses. Good Luck just the same. BTW? I'd go in tommorrow anyway. If you want a possibility with him, why wait another month? Go get him!!

Batman

 

[Medaille]

How is he supposed to know you're interested?

First of all, it is your job as the woman to make the first move, and so far you haven't done that. I'm sure that you think you have by flirting and all, but you haven't. When you were flirting with him before while you were taken, you set the tone for how you interact with other people. You are, to him, a playful flirty person. He's already asked you out twice and you rejected him both times. He's not going to ask you out again, unless you make the first move.

You need to make it blatently apparent that you want him to ask you out. In order to do that you need to escalate your flirting from the way that it was before so that he can realize that you aren't just flirting like you normally do, but that you are flirting to show sexual interest. You need to be more daring with your flirting. It should be more sexual in nature.

I would say your best bet, would be to touch him more and give him heavier eye contact. If you see him in the pro shop, when he enters greet him at the door and touch him in a non-sexual manner, but let it linger for a little bit and if you make eye contact hold it for a little bit extra. Show him the new golf shirts and ask him for his opinion on them, and while you are pointing them out put your hand on his shoulder or on his back and if you get a good feeling about it just start moving your hand in circles a little bit to caress him a little bit.

What you are looking for is any excuse to touch him. You want to touch him in a non-sexual place but with sexual overtones. You want to convey that you are sexually attracted to him and that you are being incredibly blatent that he needs to ask you out again despite the fact that you rejected him twice already. He already likes you and wants you. He wants you to touch him. He will feel so incredible when you do, it would be dumb of you not to try and fulfill what you both already want.

Also stand closer to him. Close the gap. get into his personal cushion of space. It will help him get the picture that you're flirting with different intentions now.

Remember you need to escalate your intentions, because what you've already done is considered normal and he associates that behavior with you not being interested in him as anything more than a friend.

I would suggest starting a real subtle and slowly increasing it to be more sexual over time. You don't want to shock him too much by coming on too strong at first but you should escalate it quickly as you don't have more than 5 minutes. Even if he doesn't think of you as a sexual partner any more, he will still like your affection and attention. Who wouldn't? Its just playful flirting, its not a committment of intention. If he pulls away from you once early on, ignore it because you shocked him and that isn't how he truly feels about you. If he pulls away from you after you both understand what's going on, than too bad, he doesn't like you like that and you should return to your normal flirting so that it doesn't end awkwardly as you sill still want to have pleasurable interactions with each other in the future. If he shows interest in you, he'll either ask you out again or he will be too shy because he doesn't want to get rejected from you AGAIN. Be prepared for him to ask you out and watch for him to do it. Don't get shocked and reject him again, that would be the worst outcome of this whole interaction. If he doesn't ask you out, YOU need to verbalize your desires. Preferably while he is still close to you and facing you. If he starts to turn to the door without asking you, stop him. Grab him on the shoulder and turn him back towards you and say "Wait a second." Write your phone number on a piece of paper and tell him that you'd "really like for him to call you."

Make sure that you are smiling enough. You will probably be nervous a little bit but try to smile even if you don't feel like it. He will understand if you are nervous and he will help you out and make it easier for you. Smiling is social lubrication, it makes awkwardness go away. It's the same as when he kept flirting with you after you rejected him. It helps maintain good future relations regardless of what happened.

He will take it from there.

You've conveyed your interest, while still allowing him to do the "man" work and you've left him several opportunities to back out gracefully if he so desires without compromising your future interactions. If you want him to do the man work than you need to do the woman work.

 

[covariant]

Grab him on the shoulder and turn him back towards you and say "Wait a second." Write your phone number on a piece of paper and tell him that you'd "really like for him to call you."

Do it. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Good luck!

 

[Treeview]

Some of the funnest women that I've dated asked me out. Generally there was some flirting going on ahead of time. I tend to be a little cautious so that I dont' come across as a lech or a creep.

The two of you have had ample time to get to know each other. If you wait too much longer he may cool to you. Dating generally starts out like a cold-call. At some time any salesperson realizes that the sale isn't going to happen. A good salesperson will still keep the door open to a future sale though. Close the deal, get the sale!