Unions, Labor and Strikes.

[dkovic77]

Again you have zero proof on the safety, which is my point. Besides your own "thinking" what do you actually understand about automating a Train? Hell 90% of the systems are already automated, but I guess you're not aware of that.

WTF does Health and Safety have to do with Train Automation???

The automation that we have on airplanes would be beneficial here as well. Having the engineer on board as a fail safe is like having the pilot on board.

Of course as long as the system is closed, but as soon as the hackers (who have nothing else better to do) get in…

But that is not the fault of the automation, it is the fault of the hackers.

Nothing is 100% safe, but we can get very close to it. But the companies can’t cost-cut so much that they remove safety inspections of the equipment and the tracks.

 

[ll74]

When the Norfork Southern derailed in February of 2023, it was due to a bearing failure. One that showed up on the electronic board in the Engine, as a rising temperature approaching danger, but wasn't acted on by the "humans" driving the Train. They felt they could keep to the schedule and it wouldn't overheat. IE the derailment was a Human caused problem.

If that had been an automated system, the Train would have been stopped before the bearing disintegrated and no derailment.

Again, you let your lack of knowledge inform your opinion. Perhaps you should educate yourself, then you might be able to have a fuller understanding of how Trains work, and how simple it would be to move them to the next step of full automation.

It's not a lack of knowledge. She's a one track record that only plays one song.

Automation has already proven to be more efficient and safer in almost every industry. There are definitely more considerations here that prevent the "let's automate everything", but industries have already started the move.

This is one the dilemmas of the modern world. If you need less people to produce....how can you or why would you have any labor costs?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The automation that we have on airplanes would be beneficial here as well. Having the engineer on board as a fail safe is like having the pilot on board.

I doubt the regulators would allow an Automated train to not have an Engineer, but that is just to appease the public.

Of course as long as the system is closed, but as soon as the hackers (who have nothing else better to do) get in…

Hard to be closed looped, given track monitoring systems have to be "live" and of course the Train Engine too.

But that is not the fault of the automation, it is the fault of the hackers.

Yep

Nothing is 100% safe, but we can get very close to it. But the companies can’t cost-cut so much that they remove safety inspections of the equipment and the tracks.

No there is still safety processes, but the train could be automated, and that automation would not harm or increase H&S issues.

 

[RandyRebecca]

It's not a lack of knowledge. She's a one track record that only plays one song.

Automation has already proven to be more efficient and safer in almost every industry. There are definitely more considerations here that prevent the "let's automate everything", but industries have already started the move.

This is one the dilemmas of the modern world. If you need less people to produce....how can you or why would you have any labor costs?

By "efficient", the bosses mean profits for them.

 

[ll74]

By "efficient", the bosses mean profits for them.

Of course it does. We live in a capitalist society.

Why should they do things against the economy they are a part of?

 

[RandyRebecca]

Of course it does. We live in a capitalist society.

Why should they do things against the economy they are a part of?

We should be opposing the system that sees us and our labor as mere commodities to enrich billionaires.

 

[Bray123]

Every roller-coaster I've ever been on was basically a self-driving train. The monorail into Disney is the same. OK, someone on minimum wage presses a green button which shuts the doors and makes it go but if they cant design a process to automate that they're not trying.

Profits is the other side of the equation regarding low cost for consumers, the downside is less employment but if capitalism was concerned with that we'd still have horse-drawn farm machinery (correction, manually operated scythes and spades).

If trains can be viable as personal transportation (see inner cities) so if that were expanded to inter-city, the oil and motor industries would start complaining. Then we would know it was working.

 

[ll74]

We should be opposing the system that sees us and our labor as mere commodities to enrich billionaires.

We should be working to change economies to be more about workers

i agree

But what the fuck does that have to do with people that are part of the existing system?

Hint; they aren't evil

 

[bijedi]

I doubt the regulators would allow an Automated train to not have an Engineer, but that is just to appease the public.

I don't think that would just be to appease the public. Automation systems fail, sensors fail, weather happens. I am not a rail systems engineer, but I do have some expertise in large scale industrial automation, and I would never design a system that didn't include a failure mode that would allow a human operator to take over.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I don't think that would just be to appease the public. Automation systems fail, sensors fail, weather happens. I am not a rail systems engineer, but I do have some expertise in large scale industrial automation, and I would never design a system that didn't include a failure mode that would allow a human operator to take over.

I'm not a system Engineer either, but I do hold two professional degrees in similar fields, and am familiar to some extent with remote control systems. Yes you could be 100% automated on a system such as a Train, and overseen by people in control rooms,with no need for onboard personnel. (PTC/CBTC systems are already in use).

The fail safe "human" would only be needed to appease the general public's fear.

If you looked at a Boolean values diagram for a Train, you would note it's relatively simple diagram for what the Human operator actually controls while operating. Since routes are fixed, speeds are mapped, switching and line shunting are already outside the Train Engineer's control, all that is really left is level crossings and objects on the line as variables to deal with.

In regards to the sensor fails, or weather changes, the system shuts down the train if required. Then maintenance has to come fix it. Currently if the sensors fail, the human operators shut down the train,and maintenance comes to fix it. The problems happen, like in the Norfork Southern wreck, when the Humans failed to act on the sensor. A computer program would have shut that Train down.

 

[wholesome_soul]

Every roller-coaster I've ever been on was basically a self-driving train. The monorail into Disney is the same. OK, someone on minimum wage presses a green button which shuts the doors and makes it go but if they cant design a process to automate that they're not trying.

Profits is the other side of the equation regarding low cost for consumers, the downside is less employment but if capitalism was concerned with that we'd still have horse-drawn farm machinery (correction, manually operated scythes and spades).

If trains can be viable as personal transportation (see inner cities) so if that were expanded to inter-city, the oil and motor industries would start complaining. Then we would know it was working.

I feel like a big part of this is a shift towards service type jobs. Customers hate speaking to an operating machine and... looking at movie theaters as an example. Those started off really fancy, people would dress up like they were going to a gala for some of the early theatres, then things got cheaper and more casual over time. But now you can pay for a premium experience, bigger seats, nicer food and alcohol, more reminiscent of when theatres were fancier.

It seems like it might create a market of deskilled labour with a few skilled contractors and maintenance people but then most jobs would be along the lines of customer service. Low skilled workers for a premium consumer price to create a more intimate customer facing experience you can't get with machines. Like an automated tour bus for cheap vs an expensive tour bus where a real person leads and tells funny stories and interacts with the crowds.