US v Apple

[Adre]

Unconstitutional is the only term it can be objectively called.

Fine, fact is only SCOTUS can rule something unconstitutional so what's the diff?

 

[NtlSecAgcy]

It's always been my understanding that the government has a gigantic database of all people's telephone conversations and internet activities which are tracked and logged in real-time.

Why do they need someone to crack an encrypted cell phone when they probably already have the data stored somewhere?

But we can't admit that without conceding that we've been intentionally misleading and lying all along.

And again, this isn't at all about the federal government actually wanting the info on that particular phone (which, as you've admirably brought up, they already have); this is all about the federal government having backdoor access to all encrypted technology made and, or, sold in this country.

That is what is now being fought for and against.

 

[Doom_Guy]

But we can't admit that without conceding that we've been intentionally misleading and lying all along.

And again, this isn't at all about the federal government actually wanting the info on that particular phone (which, as you've admirably brought up, they already have); this is all about the federal government having backdoor access to all encrypted technology made and, or, sold in this country.

That is what is now being fought for and against.

Government mass-surveillance of the domestic population has extremely little or absolutely nothing to do with any legitimate national security or counter-terrorism concern. It is merely an intelligence-gathering apparatus for future-planned political repression and authoritarianism.

This is about preemptively identifying and documenting political dissidents for future handling by a totalitarian state.

More than 90% of the government's terrorism-fighting resources are focused on political activists, peaceful protesters, journalists, outspoken critics, bloggers, returning veterans, libertarians, those with specific political affiliations, and many other seemingly lawful and innocuous people.

It would appear that the ultimate goal behind the war on terrorism right from it's very beginning (9/11/01) is the subversion of democracy and the establishment of a violent fascist police state both in America and throughout the rest of the free world. It's secondary purpose is to create a state of endless perpetual warfare to ensure continued profits for the armaments/defense industry.

There is a classic and historical step-by-step blueprint for closing down an open society, and the steps currently being taken to stifle and suppress freedom/privacy/civil liberties in western politics (in the name of national security) almost identically parallel the types of measures employed by the Soviets, the Nazis, and the communist Chinese shortly before those countries eventually fell to despotism.

 

[NtlSecAgcy]

Fine, fact is only SCOTUS can rule something unconstitutional so what's the diff?

I sense you hold vastly more confidence in a politically partisan Court than I possibly can.

 

[Adre]

I sense you hold vastly more confidence in a politically partisan Court than I possibly can.

Just accepting reality, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[NtlSecAgcy]

Government mass surveillance of the domestic population has extremely little or absolutely nothing to do with any legitimate national security or counter-terrorism concern. It is merely an intelligence-gathering apparatus for future-planned political repression.

This is about preemptively identifying and documenting political dissidents for future handling by a totalitarian state.

More than 90% of the government's terrorism-fighting resources are focused on political activists, peaceful protesters, journalists, outspoken critics, bloggers, returning veterans, libertarians, those with certain political affiliations, and many other seemingly lawful and innocuous people.

The ultimate goal behind the bogus war on terrorism right from the start is the subversion of democracy and the establishment of a violent fascist police state both in America and throughout the rest of the free world.

It's secondary purpose is to create a state of endless perpetual warfare to ensure continued profits for the armaments/defense industry.

Your big picture may very well be the plan, but to effect that plan the natives still have to be pacified as much as possible until hammer time comes.

Maybe like keeping the turkey safe, plump, and secure up until Thanksgiving Day?

Many turkeys fully support their masters' tyrannical schemes to collect and analyze every straw of hay to find each needle their masters tell them is a threat to their safety and security.

 

[NtlSecAgcy]

Just accepting reality, nothing more, nothing less.

Said the Jew in the boxcar on his way to Auschwitz?

 

[Doom_Guy]

Your big picture may very well be the plan, but to effect that plan the natives still have to be pacified as much as possible until hammer time comes.

Maybe like keeping the turkey safe, plump, and secure up until Thanksgiving Day?

Many turkeys fully support their masters' tyrannical schemes to collect and analyze every straw of hay to find each needle their masters tell them is a threat to their safety and security.

In George Orwell's 1984, people were controlled by inflicting pain, but in Aldous Huxley's brave new world, people were controlled by inflicting pleasure.

The laughably absurd amounts of bread and circus being pushed on the drooling and glassy-eyed sheeple by professional sports, reality television, and other forms of mindless entertainment are mere distractions to keep the masses pacified until the hammer comes down.

But some people such as myself can easily see through that silly facade.

 

[Ishmael]

Fine, fact is only SCOTUS can rule something unconstitutional so what's the diff?

Said the Jew in the boxcar on his way to Auschwitz?

If the Constitution, or any document for that matter, can be interpreted to mean anything you want it to mean (a "living" document), then it means absolutely nothing at all.

Ishmael

 

[pointless]

In George Orwell's 1984, people were controlled by inflicting pain, but in Aldous Huxley's brave new world, people were controlled by inflicting pleasure.

The laughably absurd amounts of bread and circus being pushed on the drooling and glassy-eyed sheeple by professional sports, reality television, and other forms of mindless entertainment are mere distractions to keep the masses pacified until the hammer comes down.

But some people such as myself can easily see through that silly facade.

said the guy who jerks off to ghost hunters.

 

[Sean]

In George Orwell's 1984, people were controlled by inflicting pain,

No they weren't, they were controlled by inflicting fear. And that has been the way governments have controlled the masses since at least 1945.

 

[Doom_Guy]

said the guy who jerks off to ghost hunters.

HH is no longer on ghost hunters.

She was, about 7 years ago.

 

[NtlSecAgcy]

In George Orwell's 1984, people were controlled by inflicting pain, but in Aldous Huxley's brave new world, people were controlled by inflicting pleasure.

The laughably absurd amounts of bread and circus being pushed on the drooling and glassy-eyed sheeple by professional sports, reality television, and other forms of mindless entertainment are mere distractions to keep the masses pacified until the hammer comes down.

But some people such as myself can easily see through that silly facade.

So what's your plan when the hammer falls?

 

[Doom_Guy]

So what's your plan when the hammer falls?

There is nothing I can do.

I've warned my family about the possibility of economic collapse, martial law, government authoritarianism, and social unrest on an unprecedented scale.

But they just continue to lazily sit in front of their televisions day in and day out and chain smoke.

Unfortunately I don't have millions of dollars so I can stock up on food and water, leave the country (while paper money still has value) and go build an underground fallout shelter in a remote area in an obscure foreign country, or in Antarctica.

I can't just up and go.

 

[nerfhearder]

As I mentioned in the thread I started last week (I think it was) on the topic, reputation is a significant portion of a company's assets.
If it came out that they already had the ability to bypass the phone security their stock price would take a significant hit. No company wants that and there would be nothing to gain from Apple having such code in their possession.

Possibly. Maybe probably. I don't know what goes on in their heads but I know I don't trust Apple. iPhiles trust them completely for some reason. Like a cult.
A good rule of thumb is that if they can do it, they probably have. It's not always about gaining something. Sometimes it's about whether or not they can do it.
That being said, it's extremely difficult to write a lot of code without dozens or hundreds of people being involved. Not impossible but very difficult. It's been done and by people much nicer than Jobs or Cook but as you said, they didn't have as much at stake as Apple.
Still...fuckers. Mean, nasty people who don't care one lick about privacy, only about money.
All any of that means is that I make guesses based on experience and opinion. Odds are I'm as wrong as most others in here.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Unconstitutional is the only term it can be objectively called.

Not really. It's a part of their function in practice.

If the Constitution, or any document for that matter, can be interpreted to mean anything you want it to mean (a "living" document), then it means absolutely nothing at all.

Ishmael

It's not being interpreted to mean "anything you want" it's a simple reality that people are not psychic. In the case of the Constitution 200 plus years and literally hundreds of millions of people interacting with it are bound to find every single flaw and oversight whther by stumbling into it or by actively bashing at the walls.

So what's your plan when the hammer falls?

It either fell years ago and nobody noticed or it's unlikely to fall at all. If 1984 was the plan it's entirely possible that the hammer fell at the end of World War II just our history isn't quite as confuzled yet but. . .are we gearing back up for war with Russia? Or have we always been at war with Russia?

Or my personal favorite "We have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Or the direct quote is

War
is
peace.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

There is nothing I can do.

I've warned my family about the possibility of economic collapse, martial law, government authoritarianism, and social unrest on an unprecedented scale.

But they just continue to lazily sit in front of their televisions day in and day out and chain smoke.

Unfortunately I don't have millions of dollars so I can stock up on food and water, leave the country (while paper money still has value) and go build an underground fallout shelter in a remote area in an obscure foreign country, or in Antarctica.

I can't just up and go.

You have to be a Glenn Beck alt...

 

[Saint Peter]

We were thinking the same thing about you.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That's a lie.

You lack the tools to think.

 

[Saint Peter]

I lack nothing.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You lack the ability to comeback...

 

[Saint Peter]

That is a lie.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That was proof...

 

[Saint Peter]

Proof of your lie.

 

[Saint Peter]

"Shut up, Ginger!"