What do female writers think about males writing from a female POV?

[lovecraft68]

Personal experience matters, but so does writing skill, so does literary bagage and the stuff you've read, and so many factors.

Will on average female authors do better at writing female POV erotica? Without a doubt.

But 'on average' doesn't mean a lot when evaluating individual skill. On average a man may be better at tennis than a woman. I'm still going to get beaten in more ways than I can imagine if I'd ever play tennis against Serena Williams.

The way I see writing isn't just telling a story to the reader, but telling it to myself and immersing myself in that character. Writing is a role play in print, and its a talent and skill to be able to do it, and as you take the characters further from who and what you are in your day to day life, the more it becomes a test of that skill and chance to hone it.

The people who come up with this "white people shouldn't write as black people, or Asian people shouldn't or gay/straight people.. etc.." need to get out of the writing arena because they obviously don't understand what creativity is all about, and these are the people that will talk about 'tolerance' yet show none. What better way to understand someone than to try and see it from their POV and the only way to do that is to imagine it as being so.

 

[DaddyAnal1966]

This comes up a lot.

I don't think there's anything universal about male OR female thoughts, feelings, reactions, orgasms, or behaviors. Meaning, I could write about "myself," but the moment I started writing about anyone different than me? I'd be using my imagination, whether that character is male or female or neither or whatever.

I routinely write from both male and female perspectives, but I write different kinds of males and females. Some of my males act like "typical" males; most don't. Some of my females act like "typical" males. It doesn't seem to matter; nearly all my stories are positively received. So? I don't worry about it. I just write what I want and I don't bother starting threads about it.

FWIW, I've had women tell me my female narrators are completely perfect, and others telling me they're completely bogus. In other words, there's no such thing as a "monolithic woman writer" who gets to arbitrate how certain POVs are received.

I did once write as a dog. That? That was hard.

I would imagine dogs are hard - especially female dogs ;-)

 

[Voboy]

I would imagine dogs are hard - especially female dogs ;-)

I had fun with it. My narrator was a male beagle, and he had a lot of trouble understanding why human males constantly seem to pursue "pussy." There were a lot of fun gags like that.

The issue was stringing all those fun parts into a cohesive narrative. It worked, though it took a bit more effort than I thought it would. And it did open with my narrator getting laid by some bitch, which I needed to clear with Laurel. Because it's not really bestiality if there are no humans involved, is it?

 

[DaddyAnal1966]

Oh I see, I misunderstood, sorry about that.

In that case, after rereading through here, I think some good advice has been given. There are two options, one of which has already been given.

1) Reading from women's perspectives. You can get literary inspiration from these writers on how to artistically depict this experience. Multiple authors are better than just one. You also don't have to necessarily love how all of them write. You're getting a sense for how different women write... but, keeping in mind, that there is no uniform "female experience." This is just myth. It doesn't matter if you think that the body is different, therefore the experience must be inherently, uniquely different. "Male" and "female" sexual experiences are on spectrums. They are affected by so many things. Many social identities (race/ethnicity, sexuality, religion, culture, upbringing otherwise, age) affect how a person feels about a situation, and the circumstance itself also affects a sexual experience.

Speaking of...

2) Good ol' research. I have a whole thread that talks about orgasms and the clitoris linked in my signature. It just reaffirms how diverse experiences are. One thing that comes to mind is how orgasms can be good or bad. No, not "ruined" orgasms, but simply bad orgasms during consensual encounters. These experiences are explored in one of the studies I link. I think if you want more ways to expand your understanding of the human sexual experience, you could always dig deeper into how the human mind & body work together to form the sexual response (orgasmic or not).

Again, accepting that there are way fewer inherent bio- & psychological differences than similarities, in the end, will probably make it easier. Be character-forward, not gender-forward, in deciding how your female character experiences the sex. Is she nervous or excited? Why? What is she looking forward to? Or, what is she most nervous about? These are gender-neutral considerations. It affects men the same way-- The physiological changes that lead to orgasm are the same in a man as in a woman (unless ya got some kinda sexual dysfunction). Scout's honor.

Everything else? I guess just make sure you know what the clitoris actually looks like underneath the hood, how it functions, & that the cervix will not open up for a penis. I've known some people with some uhh interesting ideas of anatomy... :/

(Also, it has been almost a decade. I'm doing great with it, thanks for asking.)

On the last, glad to hear

I think I’m OK on the anatomy side - but I guess I could always take a refresher course!

 

[Bubo_bubo]

<snip>

Everything else? I guess just make sure you know what the clitoris actually looks like underneath the hood, how it functions, & that the cervix will not open up for a penis. I've known some people with some uhh interesting ideas of anatomy... :/

<snip>

Next, you're going to tell me that people can't survive having a squid-like tentacle pushed up their anus and through their body until it comes out of their mouth.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I have only one issue on the subject of writing outside your race or station in life. Which are people attempting to write ghetto slang, ebonics, or other such dialects. The language of the ghetto has no formal structure. More often than not, people unfamiliar with it don't understand it all. Even those who talk in such a manner don't always express themselves with coherency. A few words sprinkled into otherwise coherent speeches goes a long way to set the atmosphere without losing the reader. Even these supposed online translators for ebonics don't work well. "I be like, fuck dat shee-it," this dialog can then transition to your usual writing with just data or whatever tossed in now and then and work much better than trying to bog the story down ebonics.

I haven't seen any of you doing any of this.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

I have only one issue on the subject of writing outside your race or station in life. Which are people attempting to write ghetto slang, ebonics, or other such dialects. The language of the ghetto has no formal structure. More often than not, people unfamiliar with it don't understand it all. Even those who talk in such a manner don't always express themselves with coherency. A few words sprinkled into otherwise coherent speeches goes a long way to set the atmosphere without losing the reader. Even these supposed online translators for ebonics don't work well. "I be like, fuck dat shee-it," this dialog can then transition to your usual writing with just data or whatever tossed in now and then and work much better than trying to bog the story down ebonics.

I haven't seen any of you doing any of this.

I generally agree with this, but just to say that while individual speakers might not be consistent, that's true for any language, dialect or sociolect. Ebonics (or African-American Vernacular English to give it its 'official' name) has a grammar, vocabulary and phonology that can be described, with all the usual caveats for regional/local/urban-rural variations, and is a full-blooded variety of (American) English.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Women's responses vary so much that I can readily believe one reacted in a certain way if an author says so. But more common is an author just writing Generic Female Body as a prop for their male protagonist. Convince me that you've written a human being first. Convincing me that they're female is an easy extra, in comparison.

I'm not sure men are any worse at writing women than vice versa if they put their minds to it, even though women tend to be socialised more to think about other people's reactions.

Examples of female variation I've met include clits whose owners scream "don't even think of touching it ever, it's too sensitive!" vs those who beg for it to be pinched and have a Hitachi applied, women who never come from vaginal sex to those who always do if the right spot is hit, ones who delight in casual sex to those who only feel attraction once they know someone well... and I've hardly encountered a statistically significant range!

Not considering personal safety or comfort, even if the woman then disregards those, might irk me. Men might be more likely not to think about those or not think them worthy of mentioning.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I generally agree with this, but just to say that while individual speakers might not be consistent, that's true for any language, dialect or sociolect. Ebonics (or African-American Vernacular English to give it its 'official' name) has a grammar, vocabulary and phonology that can be described, with all the usual caveats for regional/local/urban-rural variations, and is a full-blooded variety of (American) English.

I agree with you on this. However, most people won't or can't get the syntax correct. To do it right would take far too deep a dive into, as you describe it, this variety of (American) English. As I said, the translators for it are junk. I'm in no way an expert on this particular dialect or subset of English, whatever you want to call it. I was on the street for several years, and what I spoke was just ghetto speak. Once I was off the street, I was in a white home, with white parents, who did their best to teach me proper English.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Not a POV thing, but I find it hilarious when women tell me that a woman I've written is relatable, and a bunch of men tell me she's unrealistic.

To the extent that I'm writing for an audience, I'm writing for women, or non-cis people, or non-hetero men. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, but I think a significant portion of the straight male readership just want a quick stroke without having to think too much. I try to set the bar a bit higher for myself.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I try to set the bar a bit higher for myself.

That's the bar up in that London club. You're not going to trip over your feet any time soon, coming down those stairs.

For my part, on the OP's original question, I've had women readers think I'm a woman because of the way I write women, so I've got to be happy with that. I've also had gay men say I write better head than they do, so I've got to be happy with that, too .

 

[DaddyAnal1966]

Next, you're going to tell me that people can't survive having a squid-like tentacle pushed up their anus and through their body until it comes out of their mouth.

Or a horse’s penis of course…

 

[MillieDynamite]

I base many of my male character's points of view based on a couple of pimps I knew. The more normal males might be based on my pop, my adoptive brother, or one of dad's friends.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I've left the sex box blank on my profile after the approaches from wannabe submissive men got too much. (I want to do anything for you! OK, read X story and tell me what you think. No, not like that!)

Since then I've had a few gay men compliment me on certain stories assuming I'm one of them, which is nice.

 

[Lucy_Lastic]

I dont have a problem with people writing from the opposite perspective. Some people are good at it, some not so.
It is wierd though, as there is a gulf of experience. I had a discussion with someone recently on 'how does it feel...' and I'm not sure it's even possible to describe to a man how it feels to have a cock poking around inside any more than you could explain to me what it feels like to be inside a woman.

There are commons - I assume that having my clit licked is the same or similar to a guy having the end of his cock licked - biologically they correspond. The other common ground I've found is with my gay flatmate - we both know how it feels to be fucked up the arse, though he has a prostate and I dont, so maybe not so the same.

I say just do it. If you do a good job, people will read it.

 

[SimonDoom]

I have only one issue on the subject of writing outside your race or station in life. Which are people attempting to write ghetto slang, ebonics, or other such dialects. The language of the ghetto has no formal structure. More often than not, people unfamiliar with it don't understand it all. Even those who talk in such a manner don't always express themselves with coherency. A few words sprinkled into otherwise coherent speeches goes a long way to set the atmosphere without losing the reader. Even these supposed online translators for ebonics don't work well. "I be like, fuck dat shee-it," this dialog can then transition to your usual writing with just data or whatever tossed in now and then and work much better than trying to bog the story down ebonics.

I haven't seen any of you doing any of this.

It's an interesting comparison. I wouldn't even try this without a massive amount of research. I would have no confidence at all in being able to pull this off, whereas I feel like I can do a decent job writing from the point of view of a woman having a sexual experience, and I have no reservation at all about women writers writing from the point of view of men.

Handling dialect in a story is tough--much tougher for most writers than POV, in my opinion. My rule of thumb on that in general is to keep it to a minimum. I think it's OK to write a character who speaks in a slang way, such as "he don't" as opposed to "he doesn't", but it's better to keep it to a minimum to avoid sounding like you are parodying people.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Handling dialect in a story is tough--much tougher for most writers than POV, in my opinion. My rule of thumb on that in general is to keep it to a minimum. I think it's OK to write a character who speaks in a slang way, such as "he don't" as opposed to "he doesn't", but it's better to keep it to a minimum to avoid sounding like you are parodying people.

Have you read John Kennedy Toole's "Confederacy of Dunces"? His portrayal of Jones the negro doorman is astonishing - funny, clever, respectful, gets a New Orleans patois down brilliantly. It might be aged some, now (written in the late sixties, but not published till 1980), but when I read it again, not so long ago, it seemed ageless. The portrayal of Ignatius Reilly is a stand out, too. He'd fit right in here, at the AH.

 

[SimonDoom]

Have you read John Kennedy Toole's "Confederacy of Dunces"? His portrayal of Jones the negro doorman is astonishing - funny, clever, respectful, gets a New Orleans patois down brilliantly. It might be aged some, now (written in the late sixties, but not published till 1980), but when I read it again, not so long ago, it seemed ageless. The portrayal of Ignatius Reilly is a stand out, too. He'd fit right in here, at the AH.

I read that book 30 years ago, so I don't remember Jones. I can imagine a sexed-up version of Ignatius as a comic-erotic character.

It can be done. The best example I know is Huckleberry Finn, at the beginning of which Mark Twain offers this explanatory note:

"In this book a number of dialects are used, to wit: the Missouri negro dialect; the extremest form of the backwoods Southwestern dialect; the ordinary "Pike County" dialect; and four modified varieties of this last. The shadings have not been done in a haphazard fashion, or by guesswork; but painstakingly, and with the trustworthy guidance and support of personal familiarity with these several forms of speech.

I make this explanation for the reason that without it many readers would suppose that all these characters were trying to talk alike and not succeeding."

 

[ChloeTzang]

I say go for it. There's a very real difference in perspectives and emphasis though. Just read erotica written by women, and women's romances, versus erotica written by men. If its female POV, I can usually tell right from when I first start reading if the writer's actually male. It's just a different emphasis. Some women's romance lines just won't take romances written by men either, altho there's quite a few successful romance writers who are male - they're just very good at getting into the POV and use pseudonym's, obviously.

But hey, if you want to do it, do it. I tried writing a story from the male POV, once, and I don't think I did it very welll. Its easier for me to go third person.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It's an interesting comparison. I wouldn't even try this without a massive amount of research. I would have no confidence at all in being able to pull this off, whereas I feel like I can do a decent job writing from the point of view of a woman having a sexual experience, and I have no reservation at all about women writers writing from the point of view of men.

Handling dialect in a story is tough--much tougher for most writers than POV, in my opinion. My rule of thumb on that in general is to keep it to a minimum. I think it's OK to write a character who speaks in a slang way, such as "he don't" as opposed to "he doesn't", but it's better to keep it to a minimum to avoid sounding like you are parodying people.

Oh yeah. Totall agree. Dialect is so tough. I can do chinglish pretty well, but that's because of long exposure to it, but real chinese slang is beyond me. I just don't even try, and I have cousins that speak chinese and throw slang-words out there all the time. I find using the odd word is more effective. You convey the general feeling without losing your readers.

Aussie dialect is fun tho.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Or a horse’s penis of course…

Next, you're going to tell me that people can't survive having a squid-like tentacle pushed up their anus and through their body until it comes out of their mouth.

Let's face it: either the horse's penis or the tentacle would need to be 26 feet or 8 meters long to wind its way thought the intestines, otherwise it would have to fatally puncture the intestines to come out the mouth. What horse has a 26- foot-long penis? So, it must be a squid to be a real sex scene.

 

[DaddyAnal1966]

Let's face it: either the horse's penis or the tentacle would need to be 26 feet or 8 meters long to wind its way thought the intestines, otherwise it would have to fatally puncture the intestines to come out the mouth. What horse has a 26- foot-long penis? So, it must be a squid to be a real sex scene.

Are you telling me Lara Croft and Horse 2 isn’t real? I learnt everything I know about sex from that movie. I’m crushed.

 

[DaddyAnal1966]

There are too many sphincters in the way...

Maybe there is a case for something like the alien in The Abyss being able to pull this off. Not sure how it would go for the poor lady involved (do they have this trope with guys as well?). I suspect she would have bad indigestion.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Let's face it: either the horse's penis or the tentacle would need to be 26 feet or 8 meters long to wind its way thought the intestines, otherwise it would have to fatally puncture the intestines to come out the mouth. What horse has a 26- foot-long penis? So, it must be a squid to be a real sex scene.

Let's face it, a squid tentacle of 8 meters long wouldn't find enough space in the human body to go through the digestive channel.
It's clear that hentai characters are in fact awakened human-shaped sacs of play-doh.

 

[Otto26]

I've pondered this subject a lot over the years. My personal conclusion is that it doesn't matter what gender you are or what gender you write so long as you don't ask for too much willing-suspension-of-disbelief from the reader. We benefit from writing sex stories; the readers enter the experience prepared to suspend a lot of disbelief. So long as you don't make overly broad generalizations or gross anatomical mistakes you're probably good. Address the motivations of each character and remain consistently true to those motivations in your writing and, regardless of sex, you'll get a good character.