What do you expect from a story when it comes specifically to its male characters?

[EmilyMiller]

Oh my god Em, look at her butt. It is so big, she looks like one of Conan's girlfriends.

But you know, who understands those warrior guys.

I mean, her butt, it's just so big!

Uh, I can't believe it's just so round, it's like out there, I mean, uh—

Okay, enough

Seriously though. Her butt, the right cheek, that hand placement. I can't stop staring. I should be writing. Or clear the dinner table. Maybe laundry. Or any other responsible thing expected of a grown-up.

Yet… it’s a right hand? But the bottom-left finger is a thumb, right? Such an odd angle.

How did it get there? Conan seems busy enough with a sword in his right hand.

Was somebody bending her over for some chocolate starfish tasting, spreading her cheeks wide? Is that why Conan has a sword and there's blood everywhere? He seems really upset.

Or is it a tattoo, and the guy just got the handprint wrong?

And how can she be so pale. She's not wearing any clothes!

Still. That butt - drop it and rock it down the room. Shake it, quake it, space - kaboom

Hey - it’s meant to be a male fantasy

 

[dirk2024]

How some men see the sexual dynamics in their stories:

View attachment 2592976

How I tend to write them:

View attachment 2592978

I like both ways. Can I have it both ways?

 

[ADirtyPerv]

I like both ways. Can I have it both ways?

Like fierce and protective when in public, but soft and tender when they're alone?

 

[dirk2024]

FWIW, I find this image way sexier:

And then there is Red Sonja!

 

[dirk2024]

Like fierce and protective when in public, but soft and tender when they're alone?

That'd be cool for Monday, then Em's first image on Tuesday, her second image on Wednesday, Red Sonja on Thursday...

 

[StillStunned]

And then there is Red Sonja!

"[R]ed-haired women more beautiful than the flames of hell," as the man said.

 

[dirk2024]

Thinking about my main male characters, both published and unpublished, I write them to have at least the desire for emotional strength. Some already start with it. Others, may be shy and quiet, but need an experience to bring it out of them. And by emotional strength I mean, solid under fire, empathetic, humorous, confident.

It just so happens I like my main female characters to have the same thing.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And then there is Red Sonja!

View attachment 2593034

Now that’s a sword!

 

[StillStunned]

Now that’s a sword!

How about that armour? Got to protect those shoulders and that inch of thigh!

 

[WeShallUnclench]

As I said, it kinda started as a joke, but maybe it could be useful to everyone who says they were genuinely unsatisfied with their male protagonists always ending up as reader-inserts who's only role in the story is to unbuckle their pants (or let some sexy sex-starved warrior princess unbuckle it for them):

Maybe you could actually try writing it as a lesbian tale first? Since you enjoy writing about women, could gush endlessly over female characters, can make them appealing for your readers as well - just start with that? Your female protagonist could start out every bit as clueless and passive as the boy would have been, but I bet you cannot resist making her interesting, and especially - attractive - in SOME way.
And once you like her, flip her gender. Now you got an interesting boy.
That's the theory, anyhow.

 

[StillStunned]

And then there is Red Sonja!

Here's how REH originally described the character before she was co-opted into Hyborea:

"It was a woman, dressed a von Kalmbach had not seen even de dandies of France dressed. She was tall, splendidly shaped, but lithe. From under a steel cap escaped rebellious tresses that rippled red gold in the sun over her compact shoulders. High boots of Cordovan leather came to her mid-thighs, which were cased in baggy breeches. She wore a shirt of fine Turkish mesh-mail tucked into her breeches. Her supple waist was confined by a flowing sash of green silk, into which were thrust a brace of pistols and a dagger, and from which depended a long Hungarian saber. Over all was carelessly thrown a scarlet cloak."

(For what it's worth, he usually describes Conan wearing sensible clothes and armour as well. He might have had a somewhat homoerotic thing for lithe muscle and mighty thews, but he never sent Conan into battle in just his underwear.)

 

[Britva415]

Would you agree with the advice, "If you want to write a male protagonist, write a female protagonist in your first draft, and then make them male in the second draft)"?

No. Who gives that advice?

 

[Comshaw]

You realise that the Hyborean Age is completely fictional, right? And that there are no records from 14-10,000 BCE, and no archeological evidence that even hints at any of the societies portrayed in the Conan stories having actually existed?

The Hyborean Age is completely fictional? Absolutely it is. And there are no records for 14-10,000 BCE? I agree. However, Robert E. Howard didn't specify when the Hyborean age supposedly was. That came later, set by L. Sprague de Camp and Roy Thomas. They both dredged that up out of their own fertile imagination, not based on anything in the original stories by Howard.

If there is one thing I've learned from my stories, if one wants to use ANYTHING that might be misconceived as historical or even remotely real and plausible in a story, it best be accurate. The problem is that Conan and his enemies are all running around and killing each other with swords. The Bronze Age, the first time swords like that could be made, started about 3000BCE. Logically, the Hyborean Age as described couldn't have existed in 14-10,000BCE unless they were using stone tools and weapons. Because of that one fact, the mythical Hyborean Age had to be set in the same time frame or later than the Bronze Age. There is plenty of evidence of multiple societies existing in the Middle East during the Bronze Age that are similar to the ones Howard wrote about.

So we either leave it at and admit it's ALL fantasy, constructed solely from someones imagination OR we try to incorporate elements of a real historical timeline and archeological evidence.

That said, even if we give every consideration to the fact it is fantasy, the story still bears out my assertion of Alpha male dominance. In fact, it's the base of the story: Conan ruthlessly destroying his enemies and becoming King.


Comshaw

 

[EmilyMiller]

How about that armour? Got to protect those shoulders and that inch of thigh!

Very practical as you say. Almost as performative as some of the posts on this thread

 

[Comshaw]

And if manly men who cared about traditional gender roles compared themselves to elephant seals and walruses, that would be hilarious.

Don't they act the same? From my observations, they do. Strutting, bellowing, and thumping their chest, just like their distant cousins on the mountain.

Comshaw

 

[lasoldier]

I don't have much in the way of expectations. I just want any male MC to make me feel something. Typically, this means I want to like them, to cheer for them and to pump my fist when they succeed at their goal or experience some good fortune. But there are other ways to the goal. Make him such a bastard that I'm cussing him out at every turn, or having him make such fantastically poor choices that I can't look away and I'll be more or less as invested.

What I can't stand and am absolutely not here for is a passive male MC that things just happen to for no discernible reason and plays no role in his successes or tragedies.

 

[Comshaw]

To answer the question: I expect to see elements of men I know in real life. Their moments of vulnerability, and strength, their experiences with both wins and losses.

The guy who gets everything he wants just handed to him tends to be an insufferable prick. The one who *always* wins and never suffers a setback tends to be arrogant in a way that deserves to be challenged.

I like seeing caricatures brought back to a sense of reality. The buff soldier with girls fawning over him left and right who gets hung up on the girl who stays in the library all the time because she doesn't show interest in him and it's killing him that someone just isn't interested in his obvious greatness.

Or the one who always gets kicked when he's down who gets a string of wins and is essentially looking over his shoulder waiting for it to all be snatched away. Nothing is perfect or overly indulgent for him, he's just found his stride and likes where he is, but thinks it's too good for him.

The bully who doesn't want to be one anymore but can't shake the expectations because of his appearance.

The smart one who is actually very good at sports but never gets a chance because he's known as smart and not athletic, so they ice him out at chances to prove himself.

I like when guys get to have a challenge and endure or crumble as the situation calls for it.

Writing characters that sound like real people??? Say it ain't so!!!

Comshaw

 

[Britva415]

If you find yourself writing them so wholly different that it's useful to trick yourself with these sorts of practices, then you might be overthinking the differences between us. We're all just people.

Ten thousand likes aren't enough for this.

 

[Erozetta]

Writing characters that sound like real people??? Say it ain't so!!!

Comshaw

Look, I do my best to write tropes, but they keep developing personalities on me.

 

[Bramblethorn]

And if manly men who cared about traditional gender roles compared themselves to elephant seals and walruses, that would be hilarious.

Manly Men do sometimes compare themselves to silverback gorillas, but they lose interest when reminded that the average male gorilla's erection is only about two inches long.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Conan the barbarian feels shame over that time he farted in line for the wildebeest buffet.

 

[Britva415]

View attachment 2593049

Lit is the place where there's an Oglaf reference for everything like the Simpsons and Monty Python serve in other places.

 

[Katie_Mae]

Would you agree with the advice, "If you want to write a male protagonist, write a female protagonist in your first draft, and then make them male in the second draft)"?

I've got a story on the side burner. It's about a gay young man, in the army in a time and place where being a male homosexual was less than legal (but there weren't similar laws against female homosexuality). He's only in the army due to conscription. His love interest is a guy. He has no idea if the guy is into him, or even into guys, and he can't ask him.

If I made him a woman? Totally different story. Firstly she's not in the army. Or if she is, it's because she chose to be there. No conscription for women (in the setting.) My guy doesn't want to be there. He's shy, gentle, and would rather be at home sketching or playing Final Fantasy. Secondly, if I made him a woman, her love isn't forbidden. We'd miss out on the whole point of the story.

I'd have to change so many things that I'd be left with a first draft which is so divorced from the actual story I want to write that I don't see the benefit, unless someone wants to enlighten me?

Many, many stories would change when moving the relationship from M/M to M/F or F/M, because they're set in a society where these things still matter. Not to mention once you get to the actual sex scenes.

Now, I'm not a man, so maybe I'm missing something, and I'm sure there's stories where it wouldn't matter so much, but this seems terrible advice in general for an erotic story site.

Where it might have more use, would be a writing exercise. EG taking a story already written (or part of a story) and re-writing it with the protagonist of a different gender. This could help a writer see their inherent gender bias or whatever, without having the problem of writing their novel all the time thinking "this woman I'm writing is actually a man..."

 

[MisterWolf26]

Something I'd like to see more of is back and forth in power dynamics. Sex gods who intentionally or not command the situation are fun... but what's really hot is when partners take turns being in control ir being the desirable one right at this moment.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

Not sure I fully get the question. But - in writing and in IRL - a gentle and respectful man is much more desirable than an aggressive, narcissistic ahole. And by that I don’t just mean head over heart. Being nice is an aphrodisiac. YMMV.

This is going to go down this bad boy rabbit hole, I can just tell.

I agree but I'd add something about confidence or at least composure as being part of the aphrodisiac. There's the "niceness" of weakness, the "too scared not to be nice" niceness, and the niceness of someone who's genuinely kind. I feel like it should be common knowledge by now that not very women IRL are attracted to "bad guys" because of their badness but because of their apparent confidence and the excitement that happens around them. When a really good guy has the same confidence and causes as much excitement, many more women find him intensely attractive. That's less interesting for stories, probably, but true in life.

However, I might be entirely wrong about this. For most of my youth, I was a nice but very timid guy, and in retrospect I realize that beautiful girls/women were attracted to me and even came on to me and I was just too timid/stupid/confused to know what to do. Later, when I got more confident, perhaps what changed wasn't how attractive I was to women but just my ability to do something about their attraction. So I don't know. But I do know that I never would've landed my wife - and if you knew her you'd have a much higher opinion of me, everyone who meets her does, literally no one has ever wondered how she landed me LOL - if I hadn't become confident enough to persist through a bit of rejection.