What do you expect from a story when it comes specifically to its male characters?

[EmilyMiller]

Conan is alpha male to the bone, and he has often been written as chauvinistic in the sense of what he sees as the woman's role. But that's basically a sign of verisimilitude towards the world and society Conan belongs to.

To his credit, I can't remember him ever beating or mistreating women, while I do remember him going out of his way to help them.

Conan is an archetype of a different era, and in that sense, he's still much better than most other who don't have the excuse of belonging to such a primal world of fantasy. Conan is okay, in all his barbaricness.

What you seem to be saying is that he’s a throwback to when men were men and women bent over when told to. I think that’s always been a male fantasy - even pre-women’s suffrage. Men like to believe they have much more control that they actual have in reality. The second image is much more realistic.

And the whole alpha BS is based on one study of wolves long since debunked as methodologically flawed. Alphas don’t exist in nature. Just in the imagination of incels.

Now other studies have shown that the concept of alphas might apply in groups that are exclusively male. But that has no relevance to how women perceive men in mixed groups.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The second image is much more realistic.

Of Conan's actual world? Hardly.

Of what you perceive Conan's world should have been? Probably.

And I don't doubt it would be a better world. But Conan's world is much more true towards what human nature is even today, let alone in such an uncivilized fantasy world. Physical strength, aggression, and willingness to hurt play a considerable role even in today's society. In Conan's world, they were law.

 

[PennyThompson]

Of Conan's actual world? Hardly.

Of what you perceive Conan's world should have been? Probably.

And I don't doubt it would be a better world. But Conan's world is much more true towards what human nature is even today, let alone in such an uncivilized fantasy world. Physical strength, aggression, and willingness to hurt play a considerable role even in today's society. In Conan's world, they were law.

You can just say that you want to fuck Conan the Barbarian, it's cool

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You can just say that you want to fuck Conan the Barbarian, it's cool

Not really, I'm not sexually or emotionally attracted to men in any sense. I definitely want to be Conan the Barbarian, though. The mindset, not just the muscles and fighting prowess.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Of Conan's actual world? Hardly.

Of what you perceive Conan's world should have been? Probably.

And I don't doubt it would be a better world. But Conan's world is much more true towards what human nature is even today, let alone in such an uncivilized fantasy world. Physical strength, aggression, and willingness to hurt play a considerable role even in today's society. In Conan's world, they were law.

I feel you are talking as if Conan is a real person. The image is much sexier, then maybe you prefer the homoerotic power posing.

 

[PennyThompson]

I feel you are talking as if Conan is a real person. The image is much sexier, then maybe you prefer the homoerotic power posing.

The problem with Frank Frazetta's Conan art is that there are always too many chicks getting in the way of Conan's Alpha Male muscles

 

[alohadave]

Men

Not men, just him.

 

[crookedletter]

I definitely want to be Conan the Barbarian, though.

That's adorable.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

FWIW, I find this image way sexier:

View attachment 2592988

jordan peterson will agree that you do.

 

[EmilyMiller]

jordan peterson will agree that you do.

Third strike

 

[ADirtyPerv]

I can't write a bad boy to save my life. I've had a few generic, mediocre white guys to whom plot happens, but that's the most egregious. Usually my MMCs are just human, or my approximation of one, being an alien myself. My male characters like things, care about the FMCs, and the lustful sentiment flows from there.

I don't personally buy that there are ANY truly "alpha" guys, the way they are portrayed. When they get home and it's just them, alone in their room, they feel lonely. They replay that stupid shit that they said that one time over and over in their heads.

Conan the barbarian feels shame over that time he farted in line for the wildebeest buffet.

 

[Comshaw]

What you seem to be saying is that he’s a throwback to when men were men and women bent over when told to. I think that’s always been a male fantasy - even pre-women’s suffrage. Men like to believe they have much more control that they actual have in reality. The second image is much more realistic.

And the whole alpha BS is based on one study of wolves long since debunked as methodologically flawed. Alphas don’t exist in nature. Just in the imagination of incels.

Now other studies have shown that the concept of alphas might apply in groups that are exclusively male. But that has no relevance to how women perceive men in mixed groups.

After our last engagement that you were so spunup about, I really, really wanted to just let you do your thing without comment. BUUUUUUT, when you make statements like the one bolded above, I just can't in good conscience let it pass. And to be clear, my comments aren't directed at you personally, but at your erroneous statement.

Wolf packs may not have Alphas, but many other animals do. To name a few:
Elk. They fight for dominance and ownership of a harem of cows. The single Alpha male who wins all bouts rules them all.
Mountain Gorillas. A single silverback controls, protects and fights for possession of a harem of females.
Elephant Seals. A single male gathers a group of females and fights any male wanting to take them.
Walrus. Much the same as Elephant Seals, only with longer tusks.

So, yes there is such a thing as an Alpha male in nature. In human society, it occurs too. All you need to do is look around at some of the leaders we've had and it should be apparent. Those who ruthlessly seek and gather power to themselves, destroying any who stand in their way are most definitely classed as Alpha type personalities.

There are Alpha females also. In ancient history, such as the time period in which Conan supposedly lived, the stronger, more ruthless and self-centered one was, the farther up the totem pole they went. The Alpha women of the era were just as ruthless, but went about it differently. Instead of a sword, armies and force, they used their bodies and guile to accomplish what they desired.

As far as how women perceive men in mixed groups, that statement puzzled me. It really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Alphas exist. I will say that a woman's perception of a certain individual isn't a gender-wide blanket thing. Women are individuals and as such perceive things differently from one to another. I know women who despise the Alpha personality and others who are attracted to it.

"This is going to go down this bad boy rabbit hole,..."

You made a fabulous prediction with the above statement, especially since you did what you could to lead it down the hole.


Comshaw

 

[EmilyMiller]

After our last engagement that you were so spunup about, I really, really wanted to just let you do your thing without comment. BUUUUUUT, when you make statements like the one bolded above, I just can't in good conscience let it pass. And to be clear, my comments aren't directed at you personally, but at your erroneous statement.

Wolf packs may not have Alphas, but many other animals do. To name a few:
Elk. They fight for dominance and ownership of a harem of cows. The single Alpha male who wins all bouts rules them all.
Mountain Gorillas. A single silverback controls, protects and fights for possession of a harem of females.
Elephant Seals. A single male gathers a group of females and fights any male wanting to take them.
Walrus. Much the same as Elephant Seals, only with longer tusks.

So, yes there is such a thing as an Alpha male in nature. In human society, it occurs too. All you need to do is look around at some of the leaders we've had and it should be apparent. Those who ruthlessly seek and gather power to themselves, destroying any who stand in their way are most definitely classed as Alpha type personalities.

There are Alpha females also. In ancient history, such as the time period in which Conan supposedly lived, the stronger, more ruthless and self-centered one was, the farther up the totem pole they went. The Alpha women of the era were just as ruthless, but went about it differently. Instead of a sword, armies and force, they used their bodies and guile to accomplish what they desired.

As far as how women perceive men in mixed groups, that statement puzzled me. It really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Alphas exist. I will say that a woman's perception of a certain individual isn't a gender-wide blanket thing. Women are individuals and as such perceive things differently from one to another. I know women who despise the Alpha personality and others who are attracted to it.


You made a fabulous prediction with the above statement, especially since you did what you could to lead it down the hole.


Comshaw

Had enough of you. Have a nice life.

 

[StillStunned]

There are Alpha females also. In ancient history, such as the time period in which Conan supposedly lived, the stronger, more ruthless and self-centered one was, the farther up the totem pole they went. The Alpha women of the era were just as ruthless, but went about it differently. Instead of a sword, armies and force, they used their bodies and guile to accomplish what they desired.

So, when exactly was this, and what records do we have...?

 

[Comshaw]

So, when exactly was this, and what records do we have...?

Really? You don't read history? Tribal society has much the same hierarchy through out history, with a few things specific to each area and era.

Comshaw

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

So, when exactly was this, and what records do we have...?

Xena

 

[StillStunned]

Really? You don't read history? Tribal society has much the same hierarchy through out history, with a few things specific to each area and era.

Comshaw

You realise that the Hyborean Age is completely fictional, right? And that there are no records from 14-10,000 BCE, and no archeological evidence that even hints at any of the societies portrayed in the Conan stories having actually existed?

 

[spiralholly]

(I'm just gonna ignore the soapbox and return to the thread question)
What I expect and hope for in the male characters are characters. They aren't likely to be three-dimensional if the story doesn't need them to be, but at least two dimensions would be good. Not every beat cop is a repressed misogynist who enjoys flexing his power.
There are bratty brothers and funny brothers and nerdy brothers
There are horny bosses and stressed out bosses and mentoring bosses
There are fabulous yet shallow gay friends and gun-shy but dreamy gay friends and occasionally the gay guy that just isn't into talking to women at all.
There are ruthless businessmen and there are effective businessmen who have solid marriages

But then there are salespeople. So sometimes one dimension tells the whole story.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Xena vs Conan.

Who wins?

 

[Erozetta]

Xena vs Conan.

Who wins?

Everybody watching.

 

[crookedletter]

You realise that the Hyborean Age is completely fictional, right? And that there are no records from 14-10,000 BCE, and no archeological evidence that even hints at any of the societies portrayed in the Conan stories having actually existed?

Shh, you'll break some little hearts around here.

Conan is real and we can all be him if we just believe.

 

[Erozetta]

To answer the question: I expect to see elements of men I know in real life. Their moments of vulnerability, and strength, their experiences with both wins and losses.

The guy who gets everything he wants just handed to him tends to be an insufferable prick. The one who *always* wins and never suffers a setback tends to be arrogant in a way that deserves to be challenged.

I like seeing caricatures brought back to a sense of reality. The buff soldier with girls fawning over him left and right who gets hung up on the girl who stays in the library all the time because she doesn't show interest in him and it's killing him that someone just isn't interested in his obvious greatness.

Or the one who always gets kicked when he's down who gets a string of wins and is essentially looking over his shoulder waiting for it to all be snatched away. Nothing is perfect or overly indulgent for him, he's just found his stride and likes where he is, but thinks it's too good for him.

The bully who doesn't want to be one anymore but can't shake the expectations because of his appearance.

The smart one who is actually very good at sports but never gets a chance because he's known as smart and not athletic, so they ice him out at chances to prove himself.

I like when guys get to have a challenge and endure or crumble as the situation calls for it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I see alts are having a field day.

 

[CalBishForNow]

After our last engagement that you were so spunup about, I really, really wanted to just let you do your thing without comment. BUUUUUUT, when you make statements like the one bolded above, I just can't in good conscience let it pass. And to be clear, my comments aren't directed at you personally, but at your erroneous statement.

Wolf packs may not have Alphas, but many other animals do. To name a few:
Elk. They fight for dominance and ownership of a harem of cows. The single Alpha male who wins all bouts rules them all.
Mountain Gorillas. A single silverback controls, protects and fights for possession of a harem of females.
Elephant Seals. A single male gathers a group of females and fights any male wanting to take them.
Walrus. Much the same as Elephant Seals, only with longer tusks.

And if manly men who cared about traditional gender roles compared themselves to elephant seals and walruses, that would be hilarious.

 

[SugarStorm]

How some men see the sexual dynamics in their stories:

View attachment 2592976

Oh my god Em, look at her butt. It is so big, she looks like one of Conan's girlfriends.

But you know, who understands those warrior guys.

I mean, her butt, it's just so big!

Uh, I can't believe it's just so round, it's like out there, I mean, uh—

Okay, enough

Seriously though. Her butt, the right cheek, that hand placement. I can't stop staring. I should be writing. Or clear the dinner table. Maybe laundry. Or any other responsible thing expected of a grown-up.

Yet… it’s a right hand? But the bottom-left finger is a thumb, right? Such an odd angle.

How did it get there? Conan seems busy enough with a sword in his right hand.

Was somebody bending her over for some chocolate starfish tasting, spreading her cheeks wide? Is that why Conan has a sword and there's blood everywhere? He seems really upset.

Or is it a tattoo, and the guy just got the handprint wrong?

And how can she be so pale. She's not wearing any clothes!

Still. That butt - drop it and rock it down the room. Shake it, quake it, space - kaboom