What do you really think about bisexuals?

[SweetErika]

i think that some of the hostility go's both ways

I've only been angry when I've been called a flip-flopper, fence-sitter, confused, lesbian who doesn't know she is one, wishy-washy, cheater, interested in women for the attention from men, etc. I don't understand how someone can determine these things without knowing me, so I just write it off as hatred and ignorance on their part, and hope the next person I come across will be different. I've never felt any animosity towards homosexuals as a group though.

 

[Never]

Sweet Erika,
If you're angry at something I've said then feel free to take it up with me. (But try not to be angry with my mom. After all, she's not here to defend herself and the only person here to defend her finds it hard to do so in a rational manner. )

I'm having trouble figuring out if you're upset with me specifically, with everyone who's presented opinions about bisexuals on this thread, or with the queer community in general.

If it's the first option, I don't think of you as a "a flip-flopper, fence-sitter, confused, lesbian who doesn't know she is one, wishy-washy, cheater, interested in women for the attention from men" Your bisexuality is a strong defining characteristic in my eyes (much more so than if we met in r/l) but it is not the only characteristic. I also judge you by your handle and avatar, whatever I remember of you when I respond to your post, your use of English, the content of your post, and your overall intent at Lit. Tossed in there is whatever I've guessed about your gender, race, SEL, education, profession, nationality, relationship status, political leanings, and so forth.

From what I've learned about the human mind, the majority of people you interact with do the same it's just that few take time to sit back and study the process and the associations they have with each group.

I try to be fair to you. I try to be fair to everyone I interact with. I fail quite often. Your being bisexual actually gives you a leg up on people who identify as straight. Why? Because I identify as queer and feel a kinship with others who do the same. I know it's not easy to be different. I cringe a bit whenever people begin to talk about lesbians in a negative way and I'll wager you're feeling the same way right now.

It's not nice, especially when you're in a space that is supposed to know better. In a place where you shouldn't be evaluated on your sexuality. I mean, isn't that the whole point?

In a perfect world, that's the way it would be. But the reality is that the GLBT community is one large, mildly dysfunctional family. You have to take the supportiveness with the unnecessary bickering and the caring with the tedious disputes.

 

[SweetErika]

Sweet Erika,
If you're angry at something I've said then feel free to take it up with me. (But try not to be angry with my mom. After all, she's not here to defend herself and the only person here to defend her finds it hard to do so in a rational manner. )

I'm having trouble figuring out if you're upset with me specifically, with everyone who's presented opinions about bisexuals on this thread, or with the queer community in general.

If it's the first option, I don't think of you as a "a flip-flopper, fence-sitter, confused, lesbian who doesn't know she is one, wishy-washy, cheater, interested in women for the attention from men" Your bisexuality is a strong defining characteristic in my eyes (much more so than if we met in r/l) but it is not the only characteristic. I also judge you by your handle and avatar, whatever I remember of you when I respond to your post, your use of English, the content of your post, and your overall intent at Lit. Tossed in there is whatever I've guessed about your gender, race, SEL, education, profession, nationality, relationship status, political leanings, and so forth.

From what I've learned about the human mind, the majority of people you interact with do the same it's just that few take time to sit back and study the process and the associations they have with each group.

I try to be fair to you. I try to be fair to everyone I interact with. I fail quite often. Your being bisexual actually gives you a leg up on people who identify as straight. Why? Because I identify as queer and feel a kinship with others who do the same. I know it's not easy to be different. I cringe a bit whenever people begin to talk about lesbians in a negative way and I'll wager you're feeling the same way right now.

It's not nice, especially when you're in a space that is supposed to know better. In a place where you shouldn't be evaluated on your sexuality. I mean, isn't that the whole point?

In a perfect world, that's the way it would be. But the reality is that the GLBT community is one large, mildly dysfunctional family. You have to take the supportiveness with the unnecessary bickering and the caring with the tedious disputes.

Never, my comments weren't directed at you specifically or your mom. I was simply saying I have no animosity towards lesbians as a group, just specific ones (and anyone else) who make snap judgments about who I am and how I act based on the fact that I identify as bisexual. And yes, I have a problem with people who negatively judge bisexuals as a group, just as I do with those who judge lesbians, ethnic groups, religions, etc. It makes me sad how some people opt to condemn others as a group rather than assume the best and get to know them as individuals in general, but it somehow seems worse when it's done by those who know how much it hurts to be judged unfairly on a daily basis.

 

[Never]

I'm sleepy but that's very sweet.

 

[Netzach]

I laughed when I read the post, but without your good sense of humor I'd be pissed off. There's some validity to it all. I have broken a lesbian's heart much as you described it. But another bisexual woman broke my heart over the cock issue. It's life, it's what having a heart costs. Lesbians with no interest in cock can still break your heart, Never, just as hard.

But one thing that pisses me off big time about the whole "you can just go hide in the closet with your boyfriend bit" that I've gotten sometimes--- this assumes the closet is more comfortable for me than it is for gay people or lesbians. It's not.

I've never spent much time there, therefore. A lot of people assume that I do because I am getting married and have a male primary partner. My attraction to this male primary partner is based mainly on his androgynous femininity, yeah, I do have institutional privilege and I hate that...but the psychic shape of the relationship is pretty bent.

I don't give everyone I meet the full on "I'm a bisexual sadomasochistic rubber clad lunatic" coming out, but I don't worry about the discovery thereof.

I've marched, lobbied, rallied, screamed myself hoarse and done a lot more than a lot of gays and lesbians I know in the name of sexuality based civil rights, I'm not saying that in a oooo punch my martyr card way, but it's what I believe and care about most.

I don't go to straight bars often at all. I prefer queer cultural output, hangouts, friends, and life. I call myself queer because I feel that my life is lived in opposition to heteronormative sexuality, I can be with a male but it's still very fucked up and abnormal and gender is a general free for all.

Also what about the various gender permutations that have come in and out of my life? What do you call someone who dated an intersex person? Are they bisexual? Are they *uber* bisexual?

There's a lot out there, I'm committed to all of it.

 

[Netzach]

.

 

[Never]

Netzach:
"I laughed when I read the post, but without your good sense of humor I'd be pissed off."

My sense of humor has saved me from many an ass beating I might have rightly deserved.

" It's life, it's what having a heart costs. Lesbians with no interest in cock can still break your heart, Never, just as hard."
And they have. Straight women as well. I'm pretty convinced women as a whole are evil.

" But one thing that pisses me off big time about the whole "you can just go hide in the closet with your boyfriend bit" that I've gotten sometimes---this assumes the closet is more comfortable for me than it is for gay people or lesbians. It's not."

This is the only thought on this thread that I haven't encountered before. Yes, I have assumed this before. I have to say, it's an assumption based on watching more than a few bisexuals move back to the conventional world after graduation.

Netzach, I'm not going to pretend gays are perfect. I don't doubt for a minute that a great deal of the animosity bisexuals receive is based on resentment and envy. There are days when I'd like to do nothing more than toss in the towel and get myself a boyfriend. No worrying about my coworkers reactions when I talk about him. No worrying about how people will treat us when we go out on the town. I can introduce him to my pseudo-family without hitch.

Bisexuals can do this though and they could even be happy about it. You bastards, how dare you be happy and normal! No, the closet isn't comfortable but it can be easy. Easier. All things being equal, if I were bisexual, I would pick a male over a female partner. I have a hard time believing that any bisexual woman I date couldn't find man who is my equal and, because of what society offers, much better.

" I don't give everyone I meet the full on "I'm a bisexual sadomasochistic rubber clad lunatic" coming out, but I don't worry about the discovery thereof."
Yeah, but you're just cool that way. The majority of people aren't like that. This is sad on many levels but that's a thread for another time.

What do bisexual sadomasochistic rubber clad lunatics do for a living, anyway? Librarian?

" Also what about the various gender permutations that have come in and out of my life? What do you call someone who dated an intersex person? Are they bisexual? Are they *uber* bisexual?"

You're going to make me look up that intersex thing, aren't you?
I'm going to assume instead of bi- it's something like pan- or omni-

Sorry it took so long to reply. I went to bed.

 

[John Doe]

And they have. Straight women as well. I'm pretty convinced women as a whole are evil.

this from a lesbian? Now I've seen everything.

Sorry it took so long to reply. I went to bed.

Sleep is for the weak.

 

[sexy-girl]

this from a lesbian? Now I've seen everything.

wouldn't a lesbian know that best ?

maybe that currently, our society has decided that it is hot, sexy, or whatever for women to be bisexual....that means that there will be ALOT of attention seeking females playing around with other girls for the benefit of any males they wish to excite....I for one am SICK and tired of women who engage in this behavior...it is perpetuating the idea that bisexuals are over-sexed,unfaithful and generally attention whores...we genuine bisexual females dont need further objectification---

one thing i'm finding interesting about this thread and the other bisexual threads is realizing how bisexuals do face unique problems that are different from homosexual issues

i have heard a lot about the fence sitting stuff in the past but i guess i didn't really think about how annoying that would be to hear for someone that was truly bisexual and open to either gender relationships

 

[Raimondin]

one thing i'm finding interesting about this thread and the other bisexual threads is realizing how bisexuals do face unique problems that are different from homosexual issues

Yes. Absolutlely. This would be a good thread.

 

[Netzach]

This is the only thought on this thread that I haven't encountered before. Yes, I have assumed this before. I have to say, it's an assumption based on watching more than a few bisexuals move back to the conventional world after graduation.

I watched the political lesbians doing that en masse, it is tres gross, I agree. I was out as bisexual in college and treated like a flake because of it. I remain out as such, while the most separatist lesbians all seem to be married, babies, middle class normalcy, all that sapphic stuff a phase. Anyone can be a poseur.

Netzach, I'm not going to pretend gays are perfect. I don't doubt for a minute that a great deal of the animosity bisexuals receive is based on resentment and envy. There are days when I'd like to do nothing more than toss in the towel and get myself a boyfriend. No worrying about my coworkers reactions when I talk about him. No worrying about how people will treat us when we go out on the town. I can introduce him to my pseudo-family without hitch.

It's kind of like being Jewish instead of black, for a kinda crappy analogy. That doesn't mean there's no such thing as anti-semitism, and it doesn't mean that because I *can* pass, I can bear to choose to. Because I have the option to pass, doesn't mean that the option is tolerable or desirable or acceptable.

But I can see myself, in theory, in a romantic relationship of years duration with a woman, I've come very close to just that, but the personalities involved did not work. I would have gone to the lines over her, I would have braved Lesbian weddings and walking the streets of NYC arm in arm as we used to, and all that crap. *I* know I would have.

You think women are evil, I just think they are inordinately complicated, and boys are easier. I consider myself too lazy to be a lesbian, but not because I prefer the social stamp or approval, it's just so much harder for me emotionally with other women.

Bisexuals can do this though and they could even be happy about it. You bastards, how dare you be happy and normal! No, the closet isn't comfortable but it can be easy. Easier. All things being equal, if I were bisexual, I would pick a male over a female partner. I have a hard time believing that any bisexual woman I date couldn't find man who is my equal and, because of what society offers, much better.

Maybe you would. I am bisexual (or queer all purpose) and I will tell you I don't pick partners that way, but maybe that's my haphazard poly nature. Partners fall into my lap and endear themelves to me, and that's how I wind up with them. If someone is really wrong in theory, I still find myself attracted and sometimes even attached in spite of that.

But overall, yes, I agree, it's true that bisexual people with opposite sex partners have the option to closet more seamlessly, mainstream better, get married and not have to pay $250 to change a name, all the tax, visitation and adoption and happy crap that heteros get that everyone should get.

I'm getting married at last, after dragging my feet for years. I never felt right about it. Then, among my friends, queer couple after couple after couple was getting rings, having receptions, having their relationships celebrated, and I got tired of bi martyrdom and wanted the same, lazy excuse maybe, but that's how it happened.

" I don't give everyone I meet the full on "I'm a bisexual sadomasochistic rubber clad lunatic" coming out, but I don't worry about the discovery thereof."
Yeah, but you're just cool that way. The majority of people aren't like that. This is sad on many levels but that's a thread for another time.

What do bisexual sadomasochistic rubber clad lunatics do for a living, anyway? Librarian?

Heh. Behavioral science. Kinda.

" Also what about the various gender permutations that have come in and out of my life? What do you call someone who dated an intersex person? Are they bisexual? Are they *uber* bisexual?"

You're going to make me look up that intersex thing, aren't you?
I'm going to assume instead of bi- it's something like pan- or omni-

Sorry it took so long to reply. I went to bed. [/B][/QUOTE]

No prob. It's someone who's born with male and female sexual characteristics.

 

[Never]

Netzach,
" Anyone can be a poseur."
Quite true.

"Partners fall into my lap and endear themselves to me, and that's how I wind up with them."
You're right. The human heart seems rarely interested in what it easiest for us.

" I'm getting married at last, after dragging my feet for years. I never felt right about it. Then, among my friends, queer couple after couple after couple was getting rings, having receptions, having their relationships celebrated, and I got tired of bi martyrdom and wanted the same, lazy excuse maybe, but that's how it happened."

I'm not going to suggest that you shouldn't do what makes you happy because the rest of the world is messed up. I'm shallow but not that shallow. Now, are you married or engaged?

Anyways, I enjoy speaking with you.

 

[H piltdown]

I’d like to address a couple of misconceptions in this thread, or at least misconceptions in my mind. You’re all free to believe whatever you like. I sure will.

First, if you don’t like labels, stereotypes or generalizations, try living without them. This thread is chock full of these little miscreants. Go back and try rewriting this thread without the use of these undesirable outcasts of speech.

Look, if I’m describing a coffee shop that caters straight folks, and I’m talking to a gay person interested in going somewhere he or she feels comfortable, I have no problem labeling the place “straight.” Hell, I couldn’t even have made this point without using labels. Labels are a part of the beauty and power of language.

On the other hand, if I mentioned that someone was gay in a conversation about something completely unrelated to sexual preference, I would be showing my intolerance. It’s not the word, but the use of the word.

Next, I’ve read in a few places where people claim that bisexuals are either more likely to cheat, or more commonly, more likely to form an LTR with a member of the opposite sex, leaving their same sex partner crying out in the rain. This may very well be true, but that doesn’t mean that bi folk are unable to form a relationship with a member of the same sex.

In these times, very little is known about bisexuals, especially when compared to the relationships of monosexuals. Given equal acceptance, does anyone really believe that the number of ‘out’ and practicing bisexuals would remain the same? We don’t know about bisexuals because they are not only safe in their closets, but relatively happy, too. Remember, a bisexual may be capable of loving people despite gender or sex or whatever utterance you want to stick in there. So, if you already live happily in a safe ‘straight’ world, you’re more likely to choose to stay in that safe world.

Then, there’s parenting…Given the choice, most would choose conformity over social defiance.

Now, before someone reminds me that I’m defending het privilege, the couple in question just might truly love each other and live happily ever after. If society was more tolerant and people socialized freely across the boundaries of sexuality, that couple may have never met. Instead, they may have found members of the same sex, fallen in love and lived happily ever after.

Fact is, we don’t know. The evidence isn’t there.

Personally, I believe, all things being equal, bisexuals would have about the same rate of divorce as the rest of society. Gay, straight, bisexual or monosexual, human beings are not truly monogamous, even though we keep pretending we are.

Finally, bisexuals may unite with gay and lesbian people politically because we all share a common goal of social equality. That does not mean that a bisexual really wants to be thrown into a basket of social pariahs called ‘queer,’ though some do. Many of us want to be our own social pariahs, but must form coallitions for purely political necessities. Many bis see the gay and straight worlds as a single world of monosexuals.

Another claim I don’t get is that gender or sex or whatever makes no difference to a bisexual. Well, it’s not a prerequisite for love, but it does make a difference. All people have a mental image of their ideal lover. With bisexual people I doubt that this image is the same for men and women. More likely, a bisexual may be equally attracted to a very masculine Norse god type male, and an exotic south Pacific beauty of a female. Plus, like anybody else, these attractions may change over time. None the less, the sex matters when considering who or what we’re attracted to initially.

Finally, if you’re gay or straight and contemplating a relationship with a bisexual, you might want to think long and hard before you commit. At least, ask if that nice bisexual is polyamorous. You may find that people, sexual preference aside, have differing opinions about what an ideal relationship is supposed to be like, and it’s not fair to blame bisexuality for your lack of communication skills.

It’s not human sexuality that causes a person or a relationship to drift—It’s something much more. And, that is the subject of a different post.

Thanks for bearing with me...

 

[Raimondin]

Finally, if you’re gay or straight and contemplating a relationship with a bisexual, you might want to think long and hard before you commit. At least, ask if that nice bisexual is polyamorous. You may find that people, sexual preference aside, have differing opinions about what an ideal relationship is supposed to be like, and it’s not fair to blame bisexuality for your lack of communication skills.

It’s not human sexuality that causes a person or a relationship to drift—It’s something much more. And, that is the subject of a different post.

Thanks for bearing with me...

Yes, I more than once attemped a LTR with a bisexual person which had heartbreaking results. I didn't understand. In time I finally understood it was based all on a physical attraction, or sexual attraction, but it didn't come with an amorous commitment. No, didn't blame him at all. It was just different goals and expectations. I realized then I could never be bi. I am gay, he was bi. I've learned alot reading all these posts. Yes, I agree. I think it's something much more. It has to be.

 

[Regis2001]

Wow! Now that's food for thought...

First, if you don’t like labels, stereotypes or generalizations, try living without them.

For myself, I think that sooner or later everyone labels themselves, and enjoys doing so. No, seriously. What this label is changes from person to person, but sooner or later I do believe that everyone can declare what they believe to be the most important part or parts of their identity. This is a process of labelling, whichever way you look at it.

The fact is, people who declare themselves uncomfortable with labels are generally talking about labels that other people choose to apply to them. While I myself am bisexual, I would object to being judged on that basis by others and as a result I don't like the 'bisexual' label. On the other hand, if people want to judge me as a Geek, then by all means go ahead. I chose that label myself, and I don't mind if you want to judge me based on that. It all comes down to how you want other people to see you, and if and when you work out what you feel comfortable being judged on, you choose a label.

I’ve read in a few places where people claim that bisexuals are either more likely to cheat... This may very well be true, but that doesn’t mean that bi folk are unable to form a relationship with a member of the same sex.

Here, here! I am bisexual, so is my boyfriend, but we have been in a relationship for some time. We recently decided that we were comfortable with an open relationship, and since that time he has had short flings with a number of women. The reason for this? Well, not to put too fine a point on it, most people crave some variety from their sex lives, and once most people have tried something they enjoyed they want to try it again. In this case, what he enjoyed was sex with a woman, something he could not get in a relationship with another man. This may well be the reason some bisexuals ‘cheat’ – we enjoy both sexes, we want both sexes, and we can’t get that in a monogamous relationship. Now, this isn’t to say that we are incapable of being in a relationship with only one person – just that sometimes it can be hard, that sometimes we want something that we aren’t getting, and that both parties should be aware of this if that is the case.

Remember, a bisexual may be capable of loving people despite gender or sex or whatever utterance you want to stick in there. So, if you already live happily in a safe ‘straight’ world, you’re more likely to choose to stay in that safe world.

Precisely. Having a relationship with a member of the opposite sex does not make you straight.

Many bis see the gay and straight worlds as a single world of monosexuals.

In a way. Perhaps it would be easier to say that we see ourselves as being distinct from both homo- and heterosexuals, for that very reason. We like (for want of a better word) members of both sexes, they do not. This gives us a very different perspective on the world.

Another claim I don’t get is that gender or sex or whatever makes no difference to a bisexual.

I have claimed that it makes no difference in the past, and I stick to my guns. I accept that there is a difference in physical attractiveness, but that difference isn't specifically sex-based. I might well find the Nordic sex god attractive, I might well find the exotic and feminine woman attractive as well. But I also find myself attracted to more feminine men, and I do confess to a certain thing for butch women. I don't find people attractive for being a certain sex. And I wouldn't fall in love with someone based on their sex. I find people attractive, I fall in love with people. Yes, sex makes a difference in terms of whose parts go into whose, but when I consider a person attractive that's not what I'm looking for. Sex is good with both men and women, and I can't say I prefer one over the other.

But anyway, those are my thoughts. Have a nice day!

 

[John Doe]

Anyways, I enjoy speaking with you.

What am I, chopped liver?

 

[mansome]

Never, my comments weren't directed at you specifically or your mom. I was simply saying I have no animosity towards lesbians as a group, just specific ones (and anyone else) who make snap judgments about who I am and how I act based on the fact that I identify as bisexual. And yes, I have a problem with people who negatively judge bisexuals as a group, just as I do with those who judge lesbians, ethnic groups, religions, etc. It makes me sad how some people opt to condemn others as a group rather than assume the best and get to know them as individuals in general, but it somehow seems worse when it's done by those who know how much it hurts to be judged unfairly on a daily basis.

I totally agree.... It mystifies me that people can judge entire groups as a whole instead of judging specific behavior by individuals... Oh well... This is just something that will never change...

for myself I seriously don't have a sweeping judgement on a group labeled as "bisexuals" I just really can't come up with one.... sorry...

oh wait.. I did come up with one...
"bisexuals" are people who have thoughts, hopes, desires, needs, wants, and dreams just like any other people in the world....

 

[Pellias]

Personally I think that bisexuals face alot of problems that I do not have to deal with.

For me one of the things that made me "come out" was the fact that I had a boyfriend. I told my friends and family, and it was a great relief. For me the fact that I came to a point where I felt like I did not have a choice, helped me. But if you are bisexual and live in a realtionship with a person of the the other sex, do you tell your parents, family and friends that you are bisexual? Or is it a part that you keep for yourself?

I think that Netzachs analogy about "jews and black" might illustrate that.

 

[glamorilla]

generally speaking i have no problems with bisexuals. should i?

on a personal level i treat them as individuals the same way i would with any person regardless of thier race,religeon,sexual preferance and/or sex with me liking and not liking someone based on thier personality.

 

[Raimondin]

Personally I think that bisexuals face alot of problems that I do not have to deal with.

For me one of the things that made me "come out" was the fact that I had a boyfriend. I told my friends and family, and it was a great relief. For me the fact that I came to a point where I felt like I did not have a choice, helped me. But if you are bisexual and live in a realtionship with a person of the the other sex, do you tell your parents, family and friends that you are bisexual? Or is it a part that you keep for yourself?

I think that Netzachs analogy about "jews and black" might illustrate that.

Yes, I came out to the world in my late teens. I was very fortunate my family always accepted me and my boyfriend at the time. Not so with many of my other gay friends. Yes, I agree bisexuals face different problems. There is a more complex situation there that the rest of the world might not understand. As it is, the world is barely starting to deal with us, same-sex marriage, gay adoption, at the workplace, etc. It's our reality.

 

[Queersetti]

Personally I think that bisexuals face alot of problems that I do not have to deal with.

For me one of the things that made me "come out" was the fact that I had a boyfriend. I told my friends and family, and it was a great relief. For me the fact that I came to a point where I felt like I did not have a choice, helped me. But if you are bisexual and live in a realtionship with a person of the the other sex, do you tell your parents, family and friends that you are bisexual? Or is it a part that you keep for yourself?

I think that Netzachs analogy about "jews and black" might illustrate that.

I have to also wonder, and perhaps some of the bis here will speak to this; is it more difficult for bis to make their friends and family appreciate the seriousness of their relationships. As a gay man , if I tell my family I love a man, they are not going to wonder if it is just a passing phase, but if I were bi, that possibility might always be in their minds.

 

[John Doe]

I have to also wonder, and perhaps some of the bis here will speak to this; is it more difficult for bis to make their friends and family appreciate the seriousness of their relationships. As a gay man , if I tell my family I love a man, they are not going to wonder if it is just a passing phase, but if I were bi, that possibility might always be in their minds.

Yes it is.

 

[H piltdown]

Posted by Queersrtti;

is it more difficult for bis to make their friends and family appreciate the seriousness of their relationships.

In general, probably. But, every person and family is different. for instance, my wife's family would be considered much more conservative than mine, and they accepted her bisexuality with little fuss. Fortunately, they had the prior experience of my wife's brother's 'coming out' gay experience.

On the other hand, my family is much more progressive, and non-religious, but we would never admit our sexuality because of the turmoil it would cause to elderly parents with a few rather archaic notions.

Nor, would we admit my sexuality to her family. A bisexual male is less than a real man in the eyes of rural Cajuns, and I would probably lose my job along with our social standing. So, in this this way the 'coming out' process is similar for both bis and gays.

Then, there is the problems mentioned previously. People do not take my wife's sexuality seriously. She is considered straight, but a little on the kinky side. We are admitted swingers which only causes problems with the local fundies and the much larger group of devout Catholics.

 

[John Doe]

I’d like to address a couple of misconceptions in this thread, or at least misconceptions in my mind. You’re all free to believe whatever you like. I sure will.

First, if you don’t like labels, stereotypes or generalizations, try living without them. This thread is chock full of these little miscreants. Go back and try rewriting this thread without the use of these undesirable outcasts of speech.

Look, if I’m describing a coffee shop that caters straight folks, and I’m talking to a gay person interested in going somewhere he or she feels comfortable, I have no problem labeling the place “straight.” Hell, I couldn’t even have made this point without using labels. Labels are a part of the beauty and power of language.

On the other hand, if I mentioned that someone was gay in a conversation about something completely unrelated to sexual preference, I would be showing my intolerance. It’s not the word, but the use of the word.

Next, I’ve read in a few places where people claim that bisexuals are either more likely to cheat, or more commonly, more likely to form an LTR with a member of the opposite sex, leaving their same sex partner crying out in the rain. This may very well be true, but that doesn’t mean that bi folk are unable to form a relationship with a member of the same sex.

In these times, very little is known about bisexuals, especially when compared to the relationships of monosexuals. Given equal acceptance, does anyone really believe that the number of ‘out’ and practicing bisexuals would remain the same? We don’t know about bisexuals because they are not only safe in their closets, but relatively happy, too. Remember, a bisexual may be capable of loving people despite gender or sex or whatever utterance you want to stick in there. So, if you already live happily in a safe ‘straight’ world, you’re more likely to choose to stay in that safe world.

Then, there’s parenting…Given the choice, most would choose conformity over social defiance.

Now, before someone reminds me that I’m defending het privilege, the couple in question just might truly love each other and live happily ever after. If society was more tolerant and people socialized freely across the boundaries of sexuality, that couple may have never met. Instead, they may have found members of the same sex, fallen in love and lived happily ever after.

Fact is, we don’t know. The evidence isn’t there.

Personally, I believe, all things being equal, bisexuals would have about the same rate of divorce as the rest of society. Gay, straight, bisexual or monosexual, human beings are not truly monogamous, even though we keep pretending we are.

Finally, bisexuals may unite with gay and lesbian people politically because we all share a common goal of social equality. That does not mean that a bisexual really wants to be thrown into a basket of social pariahs called ‘queer,’ though some do. Many of us want to be our own social pariahs, but must form coallitions for purely political necessities. Many bis see the gay and straight worlds as a single world of monosexuals.

Another claim I don’t get is that gender or sex or whatever makes no difference to a bisexual. Well, it’s not a prerequisite for love, but it does make a difference. All people have a mental image of their ideal lover. With bisexual people I doubt that this image is the same for men and women. More likely, a bisexual may be equally attracted to a very masculine Norse god type male, and an exotic south Pacific beauty of a female. Plus, like anybody else, these attractions may change over time. None the less, the sex matters when considering who or what we’re attracted to initially.

Finally, if you’re gay or straight and contemplating a relationship with a bisexual, you might want to think long and hard before you commit. At least, ask if that nice bisexual is polyamorous. You may find that people, sexual preference aside, have differing opinions about what an ideal relationship is supposed to be like, and it’s not fair to blame bisexuality for your lack of communication skills.

It’s not human sexuality that causes a person or a relationship to drift—It’s something much more. And, that is the subject of a different post.

Thanks for bearing with me...

Agreed.

 

[Never]

H:
"First, if you don’t like labels, stereotypes or generalizations, try living without them."
I like labels and generalizations for the most part. Stereotypes are amusing if used properly.

"... if I mentioned that someone was gay in a conversation about something completely unrelated to sexual preference, I would be showing my intolerance."

Not quite. I make reference to others' sexual preference even when it has nothing to do with the conversation. Conversation is rarely linear or, I'm not certain what word to use here, sensible(?). Unless you're deliberately aiming for a non sequitur, all your comments will be based on associations you have. It's the nature and bases of these associations that make a person intolerant or not.

There's also a difference between intolerance and stereotype. If sexy-girl says she's bought new shoes and I ask her if they were Doc Martians then I'm referencing her sexuality. Specifically, the stereotype that lesbians wear Doc Martians. That doesn't make me intolerant, even if I believe that all lesbians wear Doc Martians. If Hanns says the very same thing though, that doesn't make him tolerant.

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is that what you say doesn't reflect what you are but what you are reflects itself in the meaning of your speech.

"…that doesn’t mean that bi folk are unable to form a relationship with a member of the same sex."
I'm pretty certain no one has said that.

"Many bis see the gay and straight worlds as a single world of monosexuals."
I believe the word would be something like singusexual. I'm assuming you're playing off the term 'bisexual'. The Latin distributives were singuli, bini, terni, quaterni...

" Another claim I don’t get is that gender or sex or whatever makes no difference to a bisexual."
Hmm.. I think you need to take that one up with the bisexuals. Maybe put it on the ballot next time you have a convention?

Stuponfucious:
" What am I, chopped liver?"
You're my throbbing hunk of man-laibjan.