What is it about marriage?

[BrownEyes26]

Why marriage, why not just cohabitation, why not just happiness without rings?

Tell me, what is it about marriage?
Do you believe it works? Why? Why not?

 

[Vixandra]

Well, part of why I got married was to bring my beloved to Japan with me- the military doesn't view "unmarried cohabitation" too well.

I belive my marriage works, though we were good friends before we ever got together as a couple and I think that plays alot into it. We've a lot of common interests, likes and dislikes. And we communicate well- if there's soemthing up I don't sulk and hide it. Neither does he. We're upfront with one another with just about everything.
He indulges me in my oddicies and I indulge his. I can no more understand what fun it is to get filthy working on a car then he can understand why its so fun to watch my DAOC character slam an Alb into the ground.

Marrige isn't for all people though- so many couples change after the rings are on- its scary. Both of them stop working on the relationship and then are struck wondering later on where things went wrong.

Make sense?

 

[SmilinAngel]

I think there is something about the display of commitment, like by standing up in front of all your friends and family makes the relationship seem more validated and real. Just a theory ... Plus, ofcourse, all the legal stuff that goes with it, insurance and stuff. Who knows? Different strokes for different folks. Some people need the offical rings and paper, others just need a spiritual commitment.

 

[SweetErika]

Good question. I would have been perfectly happy with cohabitation and a "committed relationship", but the decision to get married boiled down to two things (apart from love): Society and Economics.

1) Society (including our parents) expected us to get married. I'm not opposed to breaking societal norms, but following them by getting married has certainly made things easier in this situation. It's easier to be able to sleep together when we visit our relatives. It's easier to deal with the daily stuff like calling the cable company. When the time comes, we will be able to make important decisions for eachother if one of us is incapacitated. It might even be easier for our kids to come from a marriage (I remember classmates being teased about being bastard children). Even with the number of horrible marriages and the staggering divorce rates, our society readily accepts "marriage" over "shacking up", and those who are married are often treated better, even in very small ways. I don't agree with it, but that's been my experience thus far.

2) Economics is the sole historical purpose of marriage. We had already merged our finances before marriage, but having that piece of paper makes a lot of financial matters (investments, loans, banking, insurance, etc.) a lot easier. The legal system provides financial protection for married people in terms of wills and marriage and family laws. Again, I don't agree that this is the best way to go, but it's easier sometimes.

Marriage obviously does not work for most people. I might be overly optimistic, but I believe it can work if people really analyze their decision to get married and future spouse very closely before they say "I do" and then both partners give their best effort everyday to keep the relationship going.

Just my $.02

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Why marriage?

Good question. To me - IMHO - it seems that marriage is a bad idea all the way around. It would be different if people raised their daughters to be self sufficient and not rely on a spouse to take care of them. I have a problem with any institution that uses the word "obey" in their intitiation rites. I have a problem with an institution that was founded on keeping one side of the partnership down and elevating the status of the other partner. I have a problem with religions and governments telling me how to live. I have a problem with governments giving special deals to people just because their married.

The financial drama of divorce - for both men and women - is enough to keep me from ever going back. And the people who marry over and over and over? I just don't understand.

But then - I AM in the minority with my opinions.......

 

[flyindolphine]

when you love the person, you dont want to even think about sharying him/her with anyone. and marriage is like a promise, that you will never leave their side, nor they will leave yours.

 

[Spicy Southern Belle]

Marriage just seemed to be the next step for us. There was something special about making that comitment that in both of our eyes is very permanent. I have to agree with others on the social/legal aspect. It just makes things easier.
Marriage definitely doesn't work for everyone. My grandmother is on her sixth marriage and I, for the life of me, can't understand why. I mean I understand why she has been divorced so many times, but not why she feels the need to keep repeating the same mistake.
I definitely know that marriage is a lot more work than anyone ever could have told me, but if you are willing to work at it then marriage can work.

 

[BTK51]

This will be long and I apologize for that but this hits a cord with me. I think the answer is in your question and it is a question that couples should discuss and think about over and over before getting married. IMO my opinion the vast majority do not and too many people get married that should cohabitate (happiness without the rings).

The difference to me is in the vows that are exchanged. If one of the people think that there is a chance that the vow can’t be kept then I wonder why they would make it. It seems to me to be an empty promise. Change the wording of the promise to reflect what one really means.

I will admit that I have a strong Catholic background which definitely affects my feelings on this subject. The vow I took was “in sickness and in health …” and “what god has joined let no man put asunder”. To me that says that I have to keep on keeping on no matter what happens. I can delineate between the sacramental implications and the legal implications of my vow. That’s the difference.

The economic and social reasons for a marriage are very real. Why don’t more people change the wording to reflect what they really mean. This may sound crazy but instead of standing up & saying “till death do us part” say something like “ I don’t really know if this will work out but I’m going to give it one hellava shot”. Then all those forms that we all could fill out would have a box with “quasi-married for legal reasons” that could be checked. There was never a “separated” category years ago. It was married, widowed. single or divorced.

Cohabitation relationships vary from roommates to marriage. Marriage to me is the maximum commitment. It is saying that no matter how far apart we are on an issue or what is said or done that BOTH people will keep on trying to find some way to find a middle ground and continue to grow, or if necessary, rebuild the relationship.

I do deeply believe that a vow like this, taken before God, friends and family is a one-shot proposition. Once it is given that same commitment can’t be given again. There can always be some other type of relationship, just not a “marriage” in the spiritual sense. It may be just semantics and others have simply have a more casual view of what a marriage.

As to the “why marriage”, there is a wonderful feeling that no matter what is going on, you still feel that the other person is just as committed as you are to finding a way to fight through this thing. It gives me someone to share everything with and to get another perspective that allows me to grow myself. I feel it also makes it easier to deal with any differences, hurts and issues that come up in my life and to find a solution. Someone always has my back. It allows me to find some hope no matter what the situation. That’s a wonderful way to live.

 

[BTK51]

Re: Why marriage?

Good question. To me - IMHO - it seems that marriage is a bad idea all the way around. ..

I have a problem with any institution that uses the word "obey" in their intitiation rites. I have a problem with an institution that was founded on keeping one side of the partnership down and elevating the status of the other partner. I have a problem with religions and governments telling me how to live. I have a problem with governments giving special deals to people just because their married.

Your're 100% right crazy and I don't think you are in the minority at all with what you say. If that is the way that a marriage is lived out then it is worse than a bad idea. Many people take the "obey" out of their vows. It is antquated after all.

I don't see religions and governments telling people how to live. And there is also that marriage *penalty* that comes every April 15th courtesy of our ever-helpful friends down in Washington.

 

[needs2ride]

marriage

Marriage is a wonderful institution..... if you don't mind being "institutionalized" for life. lol No seriously, me and my husband dated 6.5 years before we tied the knot and he totally changed for the worse after i slipped that ring on his finger. we are still best friends in the world and i would never want him not to be a part of my life, BUT im wondering these days if friendship is enough to keep a marriage afloat. all and all, it has it ups and downs. the best advice i can give someone wanting to get married is to make sure that you both want the same things out of life. this is where me and my ol' man are butting heads, i don't think we looked down the road, just went with what was in our hearts/head at the moment.

 

[SweetErika]

Re: Why marriage?

Good question. To me - IMHO - it seems that marriage is a bad idea all the way around. It would be different if people raised their daughters to be self sufficient and not rely on a spouse to take care of them.

Excellent points. The idea that there's something wrong with not getting married and being completely independent is sickeningly prevalent. Thankfully, I was raised to be completely self-sufficient and self-reliant. I was never told, "When you grow up, you'll get married and your husband will take care of you." Over the course of our relationship, I've had to learn to lean on my husband from time to time in the spirit of partnership. However, I know I can make it on my own any day.

I have a problem with any institution that uses the word "obey" in their intitiation rites. I have a problem with an institution that was founded on keeping one side of the partnership down and elevating the status of the other partner. I have a problem with religions and governments telling me how to live. I have a problem with governments giving special deals to people just because their married.

Both my husband and I had the same problems with the idea of "marriage". We're both independent, see eachother as equals, and not religious in any way. So, we wrote our own ceremony and vows that reflected our beliefs, and gathered before our closest friends and family to express how we felt. That was our choice, independent of religion or government. But, I agree it's wrong to be given preferential treatment because we made that choice. I think the whole system should change over to "civil unions" (you can get married by a religious authority), and everyone should be given the same benefits.

So, I guess I'm in the minority with you, although I've met a bunch of people who feel the same.

 

[Missingmeds]

Re: Why marriage?

Good question. To me - IMHO - it seems that marriage is a bad idea all the way around. It would be different if people raised their daughters to be self sufficient and not rely on a spouse to take care of them. I have a problem with any institution that uses the word "obey" in their intitiation rites. I have a problem with an institution that was founded on keeping one side of the partnership down and elevating the status of the other partner. I have a problem with religions and governments telling me how to live. I have a problem with governments giving special deals to people just because their married.

The financial drama of divorce - for both men and women - is enough to keep me from ever going back. And the people who marry over and over and over? I just don't understand.

But then - I AM in the minority with my opinions.......

Count me in your minority please.

 

[thickspear]

you wanna get what ?

i'm writing on hormones and modern life today...all day...so get it while it's hot...

marriage is such a universal fact that there's little point in trying to argue it away....and it's also such a universal failure (where divorce isn't condemmed) it's wise to question too..

i got married because i wanted a partner for emotional and financial reasons...oh yeah and ready sex...

but after a few years it became obvious that our marriage was producing more grief than joy...so i came up with this idea...

5 year renewable leases instead of till death do you part...see ? and if regular analysis is done by both sides there is greater chance for working things out..if either party wants out the stuff is simply divided along pre-agreed to fromulas....so it's no fault, part fault or all one's fault but the parties are free to go their seperate ways without the devastation and acrimony of accusations...and this way friends and relatives won't see your relationship as a failure...it's just a lease that wasn't renewed...

of course there may be angst, anger and so forth but the lives of the people, including children will be less damaged...

and i think people are more likely to be their better selves if they know their partner can walk if their end of the deal isn't kept

this will make too much sense to be widely accepted but i guarantee it as a good conversation starter at your next social gathering....but uh.....if you bring it up... it may be better to say somethng like "i heard an interesting idea" rather than "here's what i want to do"...cause you may sleep alone that night....

ts

 

[SweetErika]

Re: you wanna get what ?

so i came up with this idea...

5 year renewable leases instead of till death do you part...see ? and if regular analysis is done by both sides there is greater chance for working things out..if either party wants out the stuff is simply divided along pre-agreed to fromulas....so it's no fault, part fault or all one's fault but the parties are free to go their seperate ways without the devastation and acrimony of accusations...and this way friends and relatives won't see your relationship as a failure...it's just a lease that wasn't renewed...

of course there may be angst, anger and so forth but the lives of the people, including children will be less damaged...

and i think people are more likely to be their better selves if they know their partner can walk if their end of the deal isn't kept

this will make too much sense to be widely accepted but i guarantee it as a good conversation starter at your next social gathering....but uh.....if you bring it up... it may be better to say somethng like "i heard an interesting idea" rather than "here's what i want to do"...cause you may sleep alone that night....

ts

LOL My husband has the renewable contract idea all worked out as well. I think it's fabulous! Is it possible with the current laws to put something like that into practice? It seems like it could fall under a prenup, or is that only for property?

 

[Abraxas Winterlight]

I'd go for that. (renewable marriage).
Of course I just got divorced a few months ago & my new philosophy is "rent, don't buy"!

(I also get smacked by my g/f a lot!)

 

[Beloved]

Hmmmm...it's a very good question.

I can't speak to the pains of divorce as I have never taken that route, though I do know so many who have, my best friend among them, and it was hard enough to watch from the sidelines.

I can ultimatley only speak to why I got married, and I'll be perfectly honest. I was 19 when I got married, straight out of high school and only one year in the big scary " real world" under my belt. I had just been through what I was certain was the worst thing a relationship could endure in watching my beloved get sent of to war during Desert Storm. I was coming from a less then June Cleaver family background and all I knew in my heart and soul was that I never wanted him to leave. I never wanted the security, and safety, a n love I felt when we were together to go. I wanted to know that every morning for the rest of my life he would be there. He had just been through something very scary, and lost his father all within two years and was also looking for something constant, loving and unyeildingly accepting in his life. Marriage seemed to just make sense. He knew he was getting ready to be transferred to a new post and he knew he wanted me with him and as has already been said the military frowns on unmarried cohabitation. We talked about it for about a year and then he asked, I accepted and a year later the deal was done.

As a 19 year old wife and a 21 year old husband we started out destined for failure. Neither one of us knew that though, all we knew was that we couldn't imagine being apart. We got moved thousands of miles away from our family and friends, from any support system at all to Fairbanks AK. We found out we were pregnant with our first child before we'd even been married two months and he spent most of that pregnancy gone on duty assignments. We should have failed before our first anniversary, but last year on May 30th we celebrated 11 years of marriage. Given the odds that's pretty good these days.

Sure we had social and financial reasons for wanting to marry. Sure we had stupid selfish reasons for not wanting the other person to leave and thought marriage was the solution. Of course we changed once the rings went on and as we grew there was no doubt we became different people from the niave kids who said " I do." In the end though one constant has remained. We love each other and when all the other bullshit gets cleared away that still stays constant. We both know that even if the financial and social support was there without the rings it wouldn't matter because we wouldn't be with each other. We know that even though we've grown and changed we still really like the people we've become and now even more then before want to be with them. I guess the easiest way to say it is that before we got married we thought about spending a life without the other by our sides and we decided that no matter how rough it might get we'd preffer rough seas with each other then smooth sailing alone. If everyone can honestly say that then marriage is a viable choice for them. If they can't then they should co-habitate. Seems simple to me, but then again that's just the way I think.

 

[ozbloke1980]

What I really wanna know is why do they say stuff about it being an institution? Then again I'm not married nor do I think I ever will be. I could never bow to a woman's every wim.

Have her rule the roost. Screw that for a joke. I'm my own man.

 

[curiousjen]

Me and my lover have been together for four years and with my oldest friend getting married this summer, and all my friends pretty much getting engaged- the question of when we're going to tie the knot arises again and again and again.

The only thing that really makes me want to get married is the legal status that it would allow us. I want him to be my next of kin, and this is especially important for us as I have an illness that could lead me to be hospitalised at any time- and in that scenario my parents- who live at the other side of the country- have more rights over my treatment than he does! So i think I eventually want to be married to give us legal status as a couple. Not very sentimental, but then again i don't believe a piece of paper proves anything about the nature of your love.

Of course, the idea of a big party and sentimental speeches and a biiiiiiiiiigggggg cake is also a turn on

 

[Bobmi357]

2) Economics is the sole historical purpose of marriage. We had already merged our finances before marriage, but having that piece of paper makes a lot of financial matters (investments, loans, banking, insurance, etc.) a lot easier. The legal system provides financial protection for married people in terms of wills and marriage and family laws. Again, I don't agree that this is the best way to go, but it's easier sometimes.

Actually marriage is a survival trait and historically had little to do with economics and lots to do with increasing the chances of your offspring surviving. Lifetime pairing happened as far back in human history as you'd care to follow, long before "economics" became an issue. Life time pairings increased the chances of chances that your offspring would survive by setting up two responsible adults to help raise the children.

Formalization of such pairings into an institue of marriage occured as we progressed from a hunt-gather society into an agarian society with towns and cities and all the rules that went along with a burgeoning civilization.

Marriage obviously does not work for most people. I might be overly optimistic, but I believe it can work if people really analyze their decision to get married and future spouse very closely before they say "I do" and then both partners give their best effort everyday to keep the relationship going.

I find it rather sad that the prevailing opinion of this thread seems to be echoed by many in the first sentence above. If you approach marriage with an attitude of its going to fail, it is going to fail. But then you could say the same for just about any endeavor you approach with that attitude.

I've had one failed marriage myself, it failed for numerous reasons and the faults can be equally spread among the participants. My second marriage, now going on as nearly as long as the first, is an entirely different story.

Those that see marriage or see societies push to make you conform by getting married are missing the point. Marriage isn't about dependancy, although that does occur in a marriage. Marriage is two pronged. On the one hand you have the societal bonuses of being married, ie tax breaks, social acceptance, shared finances etc, on the other and more personal aspect you have yourself publicily stating this is the person you'd trust your life with. This is the person you want to spend your life with. This is the person that helps complete you as a individual.

I'm married to a wonderful woman, and its not a perfect marriage. But there's no such thing as a perfect marriage. Even people married 50 years will tell you they've had their good and bad times. There are aspects about my spouse that I would like to see changed, and I'm sure she can say the same thing. But underlying all that, I made a commitment to her, I promised to "cleave unto her". She's the woman I want to share my bed with until I shuffle off this mortal coil. And my feelings for her have only deepened over the years.

To be quite frank, if you can't stand to live up to the marriage vows, don't make them. Open relationships in the days when sexually transmitted diseases can kill you slowly and brutally are insane. You can get your alternative partners tested daily and still never be 100% sure. And any married guy that says he just has to fuck that hottie simply has no measure of self control and little respect for himself or the promises he made on his wedding day.

I'm married, meaning I have that little piece of paper. But more to the point there is a woman for whom I would do anything, married or not. There is a woman who's feelings I place above my own. She is my wife, my lover and the source that feeds my soul. Thats what marriage is about and thats what people should be looking for in a marriage.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Well put Bob. But the thought of 'cleaving' to another person gives me claustrophobia! I like to hug - and hang on for awhile - but I really like being able to say 'see ya tomorrow' and have him go home.

 

[sharpchick]

I'm sure marriage works for some people, as I know some who are very happy and have been married to the same person for years. But it hasn't worked for me. The very traits which attracted my husbands (four of them) to me in the first place - indpenendence, assertiveness, intelligence, openness - became, according to them, my greatest faults in the end. My son's dad even told the judge presiding over our divorce that he knew the marriage was over, because he couldn't "control" me. I've never cheated on a husband - once I make a commitment to a man, I honor it until I'm sure the relationship is irretrievably broken.

But like more than one woman has pointed out in this thread, I believe marriage can really fuck up a good relationship. Maybe part of it is geographic - I'm in the southern US - and it seems to me that a lot of men (and I'm sure women do too) quit trying to keep the relationship in its proper perspective. . . almost an attitude of "ok, now I have papers on her, she's mine, I can pay attention to her when I want - not when I need to."

I am quite comfortable being alone. I have always had the brains, wit and health to be able to make my own way in life, and I'm comfortable with who and what I am. And I also understand the diffference between being "alone" and being "lonely." The loneliest I've ever been was when I was lying in bed next to the man who said I was the love of his life, and he had his back to me (again), making me feel we were amillion miles apart. I'll take being alone any day.

 

[SweetErika]

I find it rather sad that the prevailing opinion of this thread seems to be echoed by many in the first sentence above. If you approach marriage with an attitude of its going to fail, it is going to fail. But then you could say the same for just about any endeavor you approach with that attitude.

Bobmi, I do not believe that most marriages are destined to fail. The fact that over half of marriages end in divorce and there are so many unhappily married people out there is a wake-up call for me. It speaks to the fact that marriage requires a lot of prior thought before and effort during to be successful. If anything, the statistics have made me think long and hard about my decision to marry, and will continue to spur me to give 110% to make it work. I'm confident in our decision and commitment to beating those odds. I know we CAN beat the odds.

 

[Sweet_Tee]

I could never bow to a woman's every wim.

Have her rule the roost. Screw that for a joke. I'm my own man. [/B]

How the hell do I get my husband to bow to my every wim is what I would like to know?

As for ruling the roost I don't know about that, but I sure am the only one cleaning it.


We lived together for three years. Planned on getting married eventually because we loved each other and knew we would be together forever. What decided it for sure was that the state of Florida wouldn't let him claim me on his tax return even though he had suported me that whole year. We went down and got married by the county clerk the next day.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I am quite comfortable being alone. I have always had the brains, wit and health to be able to make my own way in life, and I'm comfortable with who and what I am. And I also understand the diffference between being "alone" and being "lonely." The loneliest I've ever been was when I was lying in bed next to the man who said I was the love of his life, and he had his back to me (again), making me feel we were amillion miles apart. I'll take being alone any day.

Perfectly stated! Every woman who wants to get married should read that paragraph. Getting married to be a tax deduction? yipes!

 

[Missingmeds]

I'm sure marriage works for some people, as I know some who are very happy and have been married to the same person for years. But it hasn't worked for me. The very traits which attracted my husbands (four of them) to me in the first place - indpenendence, assertiveness, intelligence, openness - became, according to them, my greatest faults in the end. My son's dad even told the judge presiding over our divorce that he knew the marriage was over, because he couldn't "control" me. I've never cheated on a husband - once I make a commitment to a man, I honor it until I'm sure the relationship is irretrievably broken.

But like more than one woman has pointed out in this thread, I believe marriage can really fuck up a good relationship. Maybe part of it is geographic - I'm in the southern US - and it seems to me that a lot of men (and I'm sure women do too) quit trying to keep the relationship in its proper perspective. . . almost an attitude of "ok, now I have papers on her, she's mine, I can pay attention to her when I want - not when I need to."

I am quite comfortable being alone. I have always had the brains, wit and health to be able to make my own way in life, and I'm comfortable with who and what I am. And I also understand the diffference between being "alone" and being "lonely." The loneliest I've ever been was when I was lying in bed next to the man who said I was the love of his life, and he had his back to me (again), making me feel we were amillion miles apart. I'll take being alone any day.

Bravo, very well said. And the whole post should be required reading for anyone thinking of getting married.