What WOULD increase the real incomes of the American middle class and working class?

[Politruk]

Their incomes have been stagnant or declining since the 1970s. Nothing done since 1980 has managed to raise them. What would?

 

[Politruk]

This is a pretty important question.

 

[ChloeTzang]

This is a pretty important question.

It is, and it's a pretty complex issue with no easy solution. We'd need to break up all the large almost-monopolies that have developed, break up a lot of large businesses

Look at the agro-industrial complex as an example - pretty much destroying family-owned farms. You turn farmers making a decent income on the whole into employees on shit wages..... same with fishing. Industrial strip-mining of fisheries has destroyed them, and destroyed the livelihood of thousands of fishermen and all the small businesses that revolved around that industry. Gas stations - instead of gas stations actually run by owner-operators, you have chains of gas stations with employees on minimum wage. Walmart and all the other large retail chains, destroying small family-run businesses across America.

Look at any industry and you see the same thing. The IT industry. Pharmacies. Supermarkets. One of my granddads has a small supermarket chain that he's built up - it's incredibly hard competing with the big chains like Krogers and all the rest. Economies of scale.

My take at its most simplistic
(1) break up big businesses across the board, legislatively is the only way to do that, and with all the money the big businesses can throw at politicians, next to impossible
(2) protection against import price dumping and in-shore a lot of the industry our politicians off-shored
(3) deport the illegals who bring down wages
(4) play to our economic strengths - innovation, an educated workforce, oil and gas exports, SpaceX (yes, we CAN colonize the Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt....they're the New World of the 21st Century and Musk is Columbus or Cortez.....)

 

[Politruk]

It is, and it's a pretty complex issue with no easy solution. We'd need to break up all the large almost-monopolies that have developed, break up a lot of large businesses

Look at the agro-industrial complex as an example - pretty much destroying family-owned farms. You turn farmers making a decent income on the whole into employees on shit wages..... same with fishing. Industrial strip-mining of fisheries has destroyed them, and destroyed the livelihood of thousands of fishermen and all the small businesses that revolved around that industry. Gas stations - instead of gas stations actually run by owner-operators, you have chains of gas stations with employees on minimum wage. Walmart and all the other large retail chains, destroying small family-run businesses across America.

Look at any industry and you see the same thing. The IT industry. Pharmacies. Supermarkets. One of my granddads has a small supermarket chain that he's built up - it's incredibly hard competing with the big chains like Krogers and all the rest. Economies of scale.

My take at its most simplistic
(1) break up big businesses across the board, legislatively is the only way to do that, and with all the money the big businesses can throw at politicians, next to impossible
(2) protection against import price dumping and in-shore a lot of the industry our politicians off-shored
(3) deport the illegals who bring down wages
(4) play to our economic strengths - innovation, an educated workforce, oil and gas exports, SpaceX (yes, we CAN colonize the Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt....they're the New World of the 21st Century and Musk is Columbus or Cortez.....)

All of that would require government to engage in actual, proactive, industrial policy -- any form of which is anathema to the GOP and all free-marketers.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Nominal incomes have grown, so real income can grow by constraining inflation. The medical industry is a big driver of US inflation but we could slash the cost by 50% by adopting the healthcare system of any other developed nation. Every American’s financial situation would instantly improve.

Real median household income has grown better than most people think:

 

[ChloeTzang]

Nominal incomes have grown, so real income can grow by constraining inflation. The medical industry is a big driver of US inflation but we could slash the cost by 50% by adopting the healthcare system of any other developed nation. Every American’s financial situation would instantly improve.

Real median household income has grown better than most people think:

View attachment 2451237

Is that inflation adjusted?

 

[ChloeTzang]

All of that would require government to engage in actual, proactive, industrial policy -- any form of which is anathema to the GOP and all free-marketers.

Anathema to the RINO's, but not to the new MAGA GOP

 

[MajorRewrite]

Is that inflation adjusted?

Yes, that’s why it’s a bit of a rollercoaster. The unadjusted median household income graph is a smoother ascent:



https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

 

[Politruk]

Anathema to the RINO's, but not to the new MAGA GOP

The new MAGA GOP is not free-market orthodox? Never heard Trump say anything to suggest that, apart from tariff policy.

 

[ChloeTzang]

The new MAGA GOP is not free-market orthodox? Never heard Trump say anything to suggest that, apart from tariff policy.

No, but one can hope we go in that direction

 

[icanhelp1]

Is that inflation adjusted?

According to MR’s chart nominal wages dipped during the Obama admin and peaked during the Trump admin all the way up to the pandemic.

The chart also points to a V shape recovery around 2021.

 

[MajorRewrite]

According to MR’s chart nominal wages dipped during the Obama admin and peaked during the Trump admin all the way up to the pandemic.

The chart also points to a V shape recovery around 2021.

Nominal income did dip because of the “Great Recession” crash and again in the pandemic.

Real (inflation adjusted) income growth has obviously had a rockier path but has improved well since 2015 except for the pandemic and subsequent inflation bout.

 

[Bn2f]

It is, and it's a pretty complex issue with no easy solution. We'd need to break up all the large almost-monopolies that have developed, break up a lot of large businesses

Look at the agro-industrial complex as an example - pretty much destroying family-owned farms. You turn farmers making a decent income on the whole into employees on shit wages..... same with fishing. Industrial strip-mining of fisheries has destroyed them, and destroyed the livelihood of thousands of fishermen and all the small businesses that revolved around that industry. Gas stations - instead of gas stations actually run by owner-operators, you have chains of gas stations with employees on minimum wage. Walmart and all the other large retail chains, destroying small family-run businesses across America.

Look at any industry and you see the same thing. The IT industry. Pharmacies. Supermarkets. One of my granddads has a small supermarket chain that he's built up - it's incredibly hard competing with the big chains like Krogers and all the rest. Economies of scale.

My take at its most simplistic
(1) break up big businesses across the board, legislatively is the only way to do that, and with all the money the big businesses can throw at politicians, next to impossible
(2) protection against import price dumping and in-shore a lot of the industry our politicians off-shored
(3) deport the illegals who bring down wages
(4) play to our economic strengths - innovation, an educated workforce, oil and gas exports, SpaceX (yes, we CAN colonize the Moon, Mars and the asteroid belt....they're the New World of the 21st Century and Musk is Columbus or Cortez.....)

I sometimes feel for you. Sometimes and just for a nanosecond. You lay low. Pick your points you want to make. Bat your eyes and say just the right feminine things to keep these sex starved conservative males coming back for more of the tease of the taste of your ginger root tasting snatch.
You should only play to your strengths and not expound on policy with posts like these that show you to be a fuckin idiot.
I apologize. I should not have said that because this post could have been written by another clueless trumper here.

FYI - Try not to be a better liberal, ok? If you advocate for big businesses that stifle American entrepreneurs to be broken broken and cease with influencing politicians with $$, then don't follow up by telling everyone to be like SpaceX and Musk. Stick to your strengths, ok? Spread your legs some, ok? But be sure to stick a box of tic tacs up there before you do. And not the trump shrinkflation kind either - you will need the large sized ones.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I sometimes feel for you. Sometimes and just for a nanosecond. You lay low. Pick your points you want to make. Bat your eyes and say just the right feminine things to keep these sex starved conservative males coming back for more of the tease of the taste of your ginger root tasting snatch.
You should only play to your strengths and not expound on policy with posts like these that show you to be a fuckin idiot.
I apologize. I should not have said that because this post could have been written by another clueless trumper here.

FYI - Try not to be a better liberal, ok? If you advocate for big businesses that stifle American entrepreneurs to be broken broken and cease with influencing politicians with $$, then don't follow up by telling everyone to be like SpaceX and Musk. Stick to your strengths, ok? Spread your legs some, ok? But be sure to stick a box of tic tacs up there before you do. And not the trump shrinkflation kind either - you will need the large sized ones.

I'll have you know it's Five Spices, not ginger!!!!! As for the rest, yeah, well, what do you advocate? Other than a nihilistic and irrelevant rant.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Nominal income did dip because of the “Great Recession” crash and again in the pandemic.

Real (inflation adjusted) income growth has obviously had a rockier path but has improved well since 2015 except for the pandemic and subsequent inflation bout.

Thx. Appreciate the explanation.

 

[Bn2f]

I'll have you know it's Five Spices, not ginger!!!!! As for the rest, yeah, well, what do you advocate? Other than a nihilistic and irrelevant rant.

I got nuthin. Don't care to have nuthin. My side lost. I eagerly await the promises made during the campaign that will make America great again.
I just don't care to sit here and see liberal ideas co-opted by fuckin idiots. Go bring up how you wanna overturn Citizens United in between tricks the next time you're at CPAC.

 

[glamorilla]

drilling.

 

[Politruk]

drilling.

That ain't gonna raise working-class incomes.

 

[TheVegasMark]

That ain't gonna raise working-class incomes.

Will increase peoples buying power....!!!...NIMWIT...!!

 

[Bn2f]

That ain't gonna raise working-class incomes.

Will increase peoples buying power....!!!...NIMWIT...!!

Not sure if you 2 are referring to the 'drilling' this person is talking about.

 

[MajorRewrite]

drilling.

US crude oil production is already at record highs.

It has negligible impact on overall wages in the economy or on buying power.

 

[UltraChad]

It is, and it's a pretty complex issue with no easy solution. We'd need to break up all the large almost-monopolies that have developed, break up a lot of large businesses

Look at the agro-industrial complex as an example - pretty much destroying family-owned farms. You turn farmers making a decent income on the whole into employees on shit wages..... same with fishing. Industrial strip-mining of fisheries has destroyed them, and destroyed the livelihood of thousands of fishermen and all the small businesses that revolved around that industry. Gas stations - instead of gas stations actually run by owner-operators, you have chains of gas stations with employees on minimum wage. Walmart and all the other large retail chains, destroying small family-run businesses across America.

I hear ya, but it's not the fact that they exist or are big necessarily, it's the fact that they have gazzilions upon bazillions of pages of laws/regulations that favor them so heavily there is basically no way for the small/indi/family businesses to carve out a living, much less compete. For like 70 years that's nearly all the US congress and state legislatures have done, legally protected and privilege that top elite.

The wage slaves have been legislated either directly or effectively out of the opportunity to even fucking TRY and do much of anything for themselves. If you do the alphabet boyz will send their militarized enforcement teams out to treat you like Osama Jung Putin for doing business that the comrades aren't in total control of and charging you damn near all your profits for the privilege of them not destroying you.


Until that shit stops....everything else is just pissing in the wind as we scream 100mph into totalitarian break down.

 

[UltraChad]

The new MAGA GOP is not free-market orthodox? Never heard Trump say anything to suggest that, apart from tariff policy.

That's because you only listen to radical leftist delusions.

No, MAGA GOP is not orthodox free market.....again neoliberals aren't libertarians.

 

[MajorRewrite]

I hear ya, but it's not the fact that they exist or are big necessarily, it's the fact that they have gazzilions upon bazillions of pages in fine print of laws/regulations favor them so heavily there is basically no way for the small/indi/family businesses to carve out a living, much less compete. The 99% have been legislated either directly or effectively out of the opportunity to even fucking TRY and if you do the alphabet boyz will send their militarized enforcement teams out to treat you like Osama Jung Putin for doing business that the comrades aren't in total control of. Private commerce in the USA is one of the fastest ways to find yourself in prison or a forever box.

Until that shit stops....everything else is just pissing in the wind as we scream 100mph into totalitarian break down.

Totally Fact-Free Chad strikes again!

This is one of your stupidest statements ever, and that’s saying a lot: “Private commerce in the USA is one of the fastest ways to find yourself in prison or a forever box.”

What an imbecile.

 

[LLCox]

lower prices