What's the next stop? Or is there one?

[shy slave]

Like I said at the onset, I don't want to debate anyone's religious views. And I don't want to defend my own to anyone. I just wonder what people think death and after will be like.

I watched The 5 People You Meet in Heaven, again for the 9th time (not really but I have seen it several times) a few days ago and it made me wonder. I liked how death and the after was laid out in that movie.

Yesterday, I was wheeling a patient out to his car, in the pouring rain and lightening struck across the street. I've never been so close or heard such loud thunder in my life. It was stunning and very scary at the same time.

Not seen the film but now want to get hold of a copy.

The book is wonderful, I buy a copy, then end up giving it away; buy another copy and the same thing happens.
But it is a book I can read again and again

It really is thought-provoking stuff, whatever you believe in

 

[alice_underneath]

KC,

It's hard to think of a lovelier way to end this life than the one you have described. I don't have faith, but I do allow myself to indulge in hope from time to time. It's very likely that your poignant post will influence my hopeful imaginings for quite some time.





Rose,

To answer your question about what I believe happens when we die, I'll offer an excerpt from Boris Pasternak's novel, Doctor Zhivago.

"You in others - this is your soul. This is what you are. This is what your consciousness has breathed and lived on and enjoyed throughout your life. Your soul, your immortality, your life in others.

And what now? You have always been in others and you will remain in others. And what does it matter to you if later on it is called your memory? This will be you - the you that enters the future and becomes a part of it."

 

[Netzach]

In my opinion the two most original scientific thinkers of the 20th century were Einstein and Stephen Hawking. Einstein held a traditional view of God the creator of everything while Hawking describes himself as an agnostic deist. He has a kind of pass/fail test for the existence of God. He says that if it can be proven that the universe had a beginning then it must have had a creator. He goes on to say that if we find that the universe always was then the need for a creator is no longer necessary. So my question is this:

Does belief in an afterlife necessitate belief in a creator? Can there be one without the other?

I don't think spirituality is dependent on a named creator, I do think that it acknowledges things which cannot be seen or proven. There may be spirituality in any abstract postulation or theory, if you really want to get nutty about it like I am.

 

[Netzach]

We called it shouting! I once saw a big sister shout her dress up and she wasn't wearing any panties!

Eb [wondering if there are any bus trips to baptist heaven on musical days]

That would make me certain there is a God after all.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

We called it shouting! I once saw a big sister shout her dress up and she wasn't wearing any panties!

Eb [wondering if there are any bus trips to baptist heaven on musical days]

Can I get a witness? ! ?

Amen, sister! *lol*

 

[RJMasters]

My simple view in a nut shell.

I beleive that human kind was created, and created in the "likeness" and "image" of the one who created us. There is too much design and order in all things to be explained by random chance.

As for who that creator is, I believe many have different ideas. For me what is important is realising that this creator took from himself a piece of his own life and placed it into humankind. He then is the source of life, and as such is the father/mother of all human kind. This part of himself he put into us to give us life is the spirit...at least that is what I believe. This spirit is eternal in nature. It requires a body to live in. When this body dies, the spirit is taken back to the creator(insert one of the many purposes the being known as angels do in service to the creator).

There the creator forms a new type of body for your spirit to be housed in. It is then you two discuss your life and the many things that happened in it. I believe it is possible to disappoint and even make the creator sad, angry, happy. I believe the creator considers every person born to be a desendant in one way or another from himself. I don't think that the creator will judge or descrimnate in the same way we do. I do think that alot of his judgement will be more based upon the condition of the relationship that exists between them. It is my belief that he sees us as his children. And just like those who have children know...as parents, yes we sometimes get mad angry and sad with our kids, even fustrated at times...but regardless of weather they are right or wrong, we love them and want what's best for them. I think that is the place from where his judgement will come. I also think that is why relationships are one of the biggest aspects of this life. I think it is that way in order to teach us something important, in how we treat one another.

I don't think we will be hanging around on clouds playing harps and such. I think along with the new body we are given, we are also given power, knowledge and responsibility. As scary as it may sound, perhaps we too will "graduate"(for lack of better word) and be given a place in the universe where we will become the creator of that world. The result of how well it turns out will be dependant on what we have learned about relationships here.

I think alot of people like to blame the creator for all the wrong things that have happened here in this world, but those who do that forget that an essential part of giving life to another is also giving them a "free will choice" to do and live as they please. What parent would "force" their child to love them? I think if I was in charge of building a world and creating a race, I can understand how important this aspect is. You cannot make anyone love you, because that is not how a relationship works. And I am sure that just like any other parent, the creator is displeased when the children are fighting and hurting each other instead of helping and loving each other.

Because I believe we have a spirit which is the essence of our life and that is entrnal in nature. It means we have become alive as living beings in the likeness and image of the creator who created us. As living beings we are capable of thought and feelings. We quickly earn that our actions or inactions affect those around us. We learn what it is to feel sad and what it is like to feel joy. All of which in part I believe to help us when it comes time for us to fullfill the purpose for which we are all created. To think of a creating a being that lives eternally and then does nothing would be the worse kind of hell imaginable. Heck I go stir crazy when I have nothing to do for only a couple of days. Perhaps those who don't graduate have to deal with that or are given the choice to be born again in one of the new worlds which are being created to try again. Or maybe we only get this one chance and that is it, I don't know.

But I do believe that after we die, we meet the creator and then there is more, alot more. But what that more is...is unclear and only can be guessed at. Some of the things above are in part my guesses based upon alot of other things I see and belive.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Word, RJ! *grins*

Abso-freaking-lutely wonderful that everyone has been able to share their views without a bunch of negativity, and nay-saying going on!

You guys ROCK!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Word, RJ! *grins*

Abso-freaking-lutely wonderful that everyone has been able to share their views without a bunch of negativity, and nay-saying going on!

You guys ROCK!

but do WE ROLL?

Eb

 

[bronntanas]

I'm so in for the bus tour for all the shouting and rocking and rolling to the Southern Baptist heaven! And I'm goin' commando like the lady Ms. Ebonyfire was talking about.

I'm a recovering Catholic, btw. I actually have an official excommunication from an over-zealous Bishop. I'm not proud....

But anyway, I've been doing some thinking about the whole Limbo and Purgatory thing. I'm with whoever it was that said that this place, this earth is purgatory. When we get out of here, we're goin' onto to either the next stop, or a penalty box sorta place where all you do is wait out your penalty and then come back here and try it again. I can't go for the whole segregated Heaven thing either. If Heaven is where you're supposed be healed and happy and all that jazz, why would we be seperated from the people we love? I wouldn't be happy in that situation.

And here's another thing the Church and I never agreed on. I'm pretty sure that animals go to on to the next world. Because IMO, sin requires the ability to reason. If I'm a bear and I kill someone, I'm not evil; I'm a bear. If I'm a man and kill someone (we're talking intent here, not self defense and stuff) then I chose to do that, and I'm evil. So if an animal doesn't reason isn't capable of making a moral judgement then they're not capable of evil, so they get a free ride. But the Church says that animals have no soul and one of the reasons they say that is because a animal doesn't have reasoning capability. And a heaven without my Fuzzy Guys (my cats and dog, you perves!) would not be so much fun.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I'm so in for the bus tour for all the shouting and rocking and rolling to the Southern Baptist heaven! And I'm goin' commando like the lady Ms. Ebonyfire was talking about.

I'm a recovering Catholic, btw. I actually have an official excommunication from an over-zealous Bishop. I'm not proud....

But anyway, I've been doing some thinking about the whole Limbo and Purgatory thing. I'm with whoever it was that said that this place, this earth is purgatory. When we get out of here, we're goin' onto to either the next stop, or a penalty box sorta place where all you do is wait out your penalty and then come back here and try it again. I can't go for the whole segregated Heaven thing either. If Heaven is where you're supposed be healed and happy and all that jazz, why would we be seperated from the people we love? I wouldn't be happy in that situation.

And here's another thing the Church and I never agreed on. I'm pretty sure that animals go to on to the next world. Because IMO, sin requires the ability to reason. If I'm a bear and I kill someone, I'm not evil; I'm a bear. If I'm a man and kill someone (we're talking intent here, not self defense and stuff) then I chose to do that, and I'm evil. So if an animal doesn't reason isn't capable of making a moral judgement then they're not capable of evil, so they get a free ride. But the Church says that animals have no soul and one of the reasons they say that is because a animal doesn't have reasoning capability. And a heaven without my Fuzzy Guys (my cats and dog, you perves!) would not be so much fun.

I have to agree. How can there be a heaven without the furry (and not so furry) ones? If my dog Bongo is not in heaven I do not want to go. Same for all my kitties!

Eb

 

[bronntanas]

Life, or the afterlife just wouldn't be the same without Sancho bitchin' about EVERYTHING. Beggin' pardon for the swearin', ladies...

 

[shy slave]

Broon and Eb when I was around 5 to 6 yrs old I used to see a medium size dog with very light brown short wiry hair following my mum.

It wasn't always there but when we were walking to the shop or down the road it would be about one pace behind her right foot. His tail would be up and he always seemed perky as if he was pleased and going somewhere new.

I remember asking her about him, first she thought I had made it up and it was part of an active 5 yr old imagination, then she humoured me, finally she just smile a bit, nod and change the subject. I stopped seeing him when we moved house (why then I don't know). When I was around 8 yrs old I heard her telling a friend how I had described the dog called 'Tex' she had had as a teenager, she admitted to her friend it had shaken her. She also told her friend that I stopped mentioning him so I had probably made him up and it was fluke as to how I had described him.

I have never seen him since, but he looked so happy and pleased to be with my mum I like to think he was Tex popping back to say Hi and sneak in an extra walk with her.

Of course I could have made him up....


Then there is the film 'All dogs go to Heaven' Burt Reynolds is one of the voices, and he wouldn't lie, would he?

 

[bronntanas]

I can see that happening... Or hear it.

When I was a kid, I used to hear a big dog trottin' happily down the hall to my parents bedroom, (you could hear his collar and tags jingling, and his nails clicking on the wood floor and his paws slappin' the floor) where apparently, he'd jump on the bed and my mum would tell him to "Get down, NOW, Rockhead!". This always confused me because we only had one dog when I was small. His name was Doofus and he slept in my room. I was visiting my gran and she had a picture of my parents when they were younger and only had two kids and an gigantic wolfhound named Angus. (I'm the last of nine.) I asked about the dog and she says "Oh, that's Angus. He was really sweet, but really dumb. Your mother called him Rockhead, which was fitting I guess. He died doing something really stupid right after J was born." My brother J predates me by about 8 years. Angus had the same mum as Doofus (who's real name was Fergus, but well, he was a doofus) and if he was anywhere as daft as Doofus he's probably STILL wandering around our house trying to figure out where the heck he left his body....

 

[shy slave]

I can see that happening... Or hear it.

When I was a kid, I used to hear a big dog trottin' happily down the hall to my parents bedroom, (you could hear his collar and tags jingling, and his nails clicking on the wood floor and his paws slappin' the floor) where apparently, he'd jump on the bed and my mum would tell him to "Get down, NOW, Rockhead!". This always confused me because we only had one dog when I was small. His name was Doofus and he slept in my room. I was visiting my gran and she had a picture of my parents when they were younger and only had two kids and an gigantic wolfhound named Angus. (I'm the last of nine.) I asked about the dog and she says "Oh, that's Angus. He was really sweet, but really dumb. Your mother called him Rockhead, which was fitting I guess. He died doing something really stupid right after J was born." My brother J predates me by about 8 years. Angus had the same mum as Doofus (who's real name was Fergus, but well, he was a doofus) and if he was anywhere as daft as Doofus he's probably STILL wandering around our house trying to figure out where the heck he left his body....

I know its not scientific proof, but its proof enough for me that animals really are around the Spirit world
Plus that last line has really made me laugh ~ Thank you for that

 

[bronntanas]

hijacl alert

Very welcome. Doofus was one of the best dogs ever, but he wasn't all there either. I mean, he didn't like doors. He'd bark at closed doors and bark at people coming through them. And he wasn't barking at the front door or the kitchen door or strangers coming through them. Picture this, I'm sitting in the living room reading a book. Doofus is laying on the floor eating something he probably shouldn't. I get up and go to the WC, closing the door. He barks at the closed door, then he barks at me when I open the door and come out, even though he'd just seen me go in there a few moments ago. He was a big sweetie, but dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Broon and Eb when I was around 5 to 6 yrs old I used to see a medium size dog with very light brown short wiry hair following my mum.

It wasn't always there but when we were walking to the shop or down the road it would be about one pace behind her right foot. His tail would be up and he always seemed perky as if he was pleased and going somewhere new.

I remember asking her about him, first she thought I had made it up and it was part of an active 5 yr old imagination, then she humoured me, finally she just smile a bit, nod and change the subject. I stopped seeing him when we moved house (why then I don't know). When I was around 8 yrs old I heard her telling a friend how I had described the dog called 'Tex' she had had as a teenager, she admitted to her friend it had shaken her. She also told her friend that I stopped mentioning him so I had probably made him up and it was fluke as to how I had described him.

I have never seen him since, but he looked so happy and pleased to be with my mum I like to think he was Tex popping back to say Hi and sneak in an extra walk with her.

Of course I could have made him up....


Then there is the film 'All dogs go to Heaven' Burt Reynolds is one of the voices, and he wouldn't lie, would he?

I believe it. I know that children see things we adults do not see or refuse to see. My grandson see things and it is amazing what he can describe with no frea. My daughter used to see things when she was smaller.

Eb