What's the point of decentralized government anyway?

[pecksniff]

I have always hesitated to join the Green Party because "decentralization" is for some reason one of its Ten Key Values.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Local governments often show the same flaws.

At times. Now put that local government in a distant city and load it down with 100,000 pages of regulatory pig Latin and see how responsive it is.

 

[Rightguide]

Allowing for changes over time in technology and resources, the French and the British and the Chinese did reach equivalent pinnacles, with centralized governments.

No they didn't, not really. At the end of 1945 the French and the British had no technology left standing, and since then the Chinese have stolen all of ours and are still behind.

 

[Rightguide]

Speaking of the Chinese, the Judge Dee novels of Robert van Gulik give an interesting literary portrait of government in Imperial China. Dee qualifies for his position by performance on civil service exams. He is appointed to particular posts by officials in the capital. In most of the stories he is the "magistrate" of a county, meaning both judge and mayor -- the only other official of importance in the county being the officer in command of the local army garrison (every county seat has a garrison). After a year or two he is always rotated to another county, to prevent any magistrate from building up a local power base.

Certainly not a republican system, but not a bad way to organize a monarchical one.

Go to Youtube and view those videos I told you about and then come back and tell us about how grand the Chinese communist system of provincial management is.

 

[pecksniff]

Applying this discussion to the American context, an excellent treatment is Hamilton's Republic: Readings in the American Democratic Nationalist Tradition, by, again, Michael Lind.

 

[Rightguide]

Centralized decision-making is less efficient because it invariably fails to address the actual problem for lack of full knowledge, It solves the wrong problem, IOW. It also tends to get bound up in a lot of rules and procedure that are superfluous.

Tens of thousands have died in China in the last month or two as a result of paralyzed decision making at the local level in their communist system.

 

[pecksniff]

Go to Youtube and view those videos I told you about and then come back and tell us about how grand the Chinese communist system of provincial management is.

I was discussing the old imperial system, not today's.

 

[Rightguide]

Applying this discussion to the American context, an excellent treatment is Hamilton's Republic: Readings in the American Democratic Nationalist Tradition, by, again, Michael Lind.

Michael Lind, tired left wing apologist.

 

[pecksniff]

No they didn't, not really. At the end of 1945 the French and the British had no technology left standing, and since then the Chinese have stolen all of ours and are still behind.

But the French and the British did have mighty and prosperous empires in their day, and China has been the greatest and most highly civilized power in East Asia for most of its history.

 

[Rightguide]

I was discussing the old imperial system, not today's.

Okay. There seems to be a devolution since then. One knows this to be true when we realize their are buildings hundreds of years old still standing, and those gigantic ghost cites built in the last five years or so are already falling apart. There are an estimated 65,000,000 apartments recently built that cannot be lived in.

 

[pecksniff]

Michael Lind, tired left wing apologist.

He is a lot smarter than you.

 

[Rightguide]

But the French and the British did have mighty and prosperous empires in their day, and China has been the greatest and most highly civilized power in East Asia for most of its history.

Yes, they did, once. Today they are in decline. As allies they do share in American technology, and we in theirs, but they do not compare with the United States in any category I can think of. As I just mentioned, the Chinese look to be great but as I have pointed out, they have major economic and technological obstacles that communism cannot overcome. If they are to become the World powerhouse, it will be long after they jettison their present communist system of governance. They have major infrastructure problems, they have a major lack of modern construction standards. Their cities look modern and perfect on the surface but are really only Potemkin Villages with little underlying infrastructure just waiting to fail. They had a dam failure in 1975 that killed 230,000 people. They've tried to cover up hundreds of dam failures since. Right now they are covering up discovered cracks in the Three Gorges Dam.

 

[pecksniff]

Yes, they did, once. Today they are in decline.

Not because of centralized government.

Although it is at least theoretically possible that the British Empire could have survived in some form as a federation.

 

[Rightguide]

He is a lot smarter than you.

I have to admit he's much amore adept at fortifying leftwing ideology than I could be, being honest and all.

 

[pecksniff]

I have to admit he's much amore adept at fortifying leftwing ideology than I could be, being honest and all.

He is also a lot more honest than you.

 

[CornusKousa]

Yes, this is Peck's point...you are totally fine if someone does it when is corresponds to your beliefs, and when it doesn't.they are control freak Dems, even if they are Repubs...you then mislabel them swampy or turncoat Dems.

As a liberal, that's 100% correct.....the people I don't agree with tend to be authoritarian control freaks.

Like you.

And the ones I do agree with are liberals so they aren't trying to force their politics on me at gunpoint.

You have conflated.all those years into one monolithic idea that only exists in your pea sized brain....this Country isn't monolithic, never was, never will be.

Which is exactly why leftist should stop trying to force 1 size fits all 50 states and 330 million people social policy.

Maybe put their money where their mouths are and do some of that "progress" in their states, paid for by their residents.

Show us how wonderful life in a truly "progressive" state is.

 

[Rightguide]

Not because of centralized government.

Although it is at least theoretically possible that the British Empire could have survived in some form as a federation.

When the sun set on the British Empire it probably went down for good. The political atmosphere is unpredictable for the most part. Though it attacked us twice and went on and supported the Confederacy in the Civil War, it does want to fortify its "special relationship" with the United States, as we do as well. Interestingly it was the French who supported the Union during the Civil War.

Many think Britain can't go it alone after Brexit. I'm not sure, I don't live there. I've always had an affinity for the British people and their steadfastness. I hope they are still strong enough to go it alone, away from those collectivist on the continent who want to drain their economic vitality.

Historically Britain's relationship with Europe has been peripheral in nature. Always looking across the Channel at a source of turbulence and invasion. Today its geography, so important then, being less so today, gives way to economics and culture. Having lost its World dominance against say Russia, China and the US, it hasn't against it European neighbors in my opinion and is no less of a decline than they are.

 

[pecksniff]

Historically Britain's relationship with Europe has been peripheral in nature.

(Probably) apocryphal Times headline:

FOG IN CHANNEL
CONTINENT CUT OFF

 

[Rightguide]

He is also a lot more honest than you.

I don't know. I'm pretty honest.

 

[pecksniff]

Nevertheless, from over here, we think of Britain as part of Europe in the same way we think of Japan as part of Asia.

 

[pecksniff]

I don't know. I'm pretty honest.

Not intellectually.

 

[bellisarius]

China is a totalitarian regime guilty of slave labor, genocide, wholesale theft, extortion, and virtually any other crime you can mention. They have a hell of lot more in common with a criminal syndicate than they do a national government.

Apologists for that regime are either woefully ignorant or on the regime's payroll.

 

[Rightguide]

Nevertheless, from over here, we think of Britain as part of Europe in the same way we think of Japan as part of Asia.

There was a time when Britons assumed themselves to be above those in Europe.

 

[Rightguide]

Not intellectually.

I've been entirely intellectually honest, especially about the efficacy of your Marxist beliefs.

 

[pecksniff]

China is a totalitarian regime guilty of slave labor, genocide, wholesale theft, extortion, and virtually any other crime you can mention. They have a hell of lot more in common with a criminal syndicate than they do a national government.

Apologists for that regime are either woefully ignorant or on the regime's payroll.

But Chinese government was just as centralized under the emperors.