What's with thin-skinned authors and hyper-aggressive commenters?

[Bramblethorn]

PUBLIC would be someone posting a comment to a story.

Yep, and that is the context of the OP. Solicited feedback here on the forums is a different thing, and not what I was talking about there.

If somebody indicates that they're open to public critique somewhere like Story Feedback, then that's great - other authors might also learn from the discussion. It's less likely to be productive as an uninvited comment.

 

[LilyWaters]

Just wanted to add to my earlier post that it was not a critique of the lag time between submission and stories being posted. I know they read every submission, which is an enormous job.

I'm just a stickler for my own writing, but sometimes here I have to let the little things go, or I'd be pulling down and resubmitting my work to the point of ridiculousness.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Something you may not know Adverbly (as you do not write stories here) is that it's a bit of an ordeal on this site to correct small errors or stylistic elements of a piece. You can't just log in and make changes. You have to remove the entire story, make any changes, and then resubmit it, where it goes to the bottom of the list for submissions. It takes at least a week to be reposted, often much longer.

This is extra important because the first week after a story gets posted is when it's most visible. My stories usually get about as many views in the first seven days after posting as they will in the next 51 weeks combined.

So even if I notice a typo and submit an edit the moment my story goes live, it's going to be too late for all those first-week readers.

 

[KeithD]

J I know they read every submission, which is an enormous job.

There's no way that the single submissions editor, Laurel, reads every submission. She can do more than a brief scan and get the number of submissions passed through in a day that she does.

 

[LilyWaters]

There's no way that the single submissions editor, Laurel, reads every submission. She can do more than a brief scan and get the number of submissions passed through in a day that she does.

"Skim" is what I meant, really. The point is, I'm not complaining about the submission process. The process does make me far less likely to edit my own work.

Alas, I fear that it's all moot anyway, as I don't think the OP is even looking at this thread anymore.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I loved reading what various readers and writers here think about feedback. Recognizing some of my own stances both from a reader's and a writer's point of view felt really good somehow.
I would say that there is a fine line you need to walk if you want your comments to be constructive. As a commentator, the attitude you project in your words means so much. You can't see the commentator. You can't tell from his face what he intended when he wrote a comment, it has to be inferred from the words. That is why politeness is important. Not being patronizing maybe even more so. I would say that your comments crossed that line somewhat, although not too much. The banter following the comment was of course anything but in good faith. I got a relatively thick skin myself, but there are people who do not, so that's why you should try to be both polite and try not to patronize with your critique.

This is my case here. I write in English, obviously, but I've never even been to, let alone lived in an English speaking country. One commentator wrote politely that I should mind my pronouns and after reading my story once again I realized I was using pronouns in a way that is natural to my language, but not in English. In the heat of writing I never noticed, because I knew in my head what happens in that scene, but after trying to read it anew I saw the mistakes.
So, thank you commentator. It made me improve.
Finally, authors who can't take polite, non patronizing, constructive critique should maybe just disable comments or even votes. This is the Internet, after all. It is meant to be interactive. Discouraging readers to offer real constructive feedback for the fear it might put off some tender soul from further writing is counterproductive in the long run.

 

[Initiate_me]

I can understand that it might hurt when someone criticises your writing, especially when you've put a lot of yourself into it. But that's part of the trade off when you put something out there, and I don't think being protected from that helps us.

Yes sometimes there are some comments that seem rude and unfair (for example I had a couple of people hate on a story of mine because it contained cheating, and lesbians, and they had a thing about those themes), but I really don't think it should affect us too strongly. If a stranger's criticism of your writing severely upsets you then I think that is something you should look at, and try to work out why. Because it really doesn't matter - I think you should write for yourself and for the hope of connecting in some way with others, not for praise, and so a few harsh words don't change that. If someone doesn't understand your work, or doesn't like it, that's fine - maybe they have some useful feedback and maybe they don't, but someone else will probably like your story. A lot of us could do with toughening up a little bit and caring less about what other people think. If an author really knows that they can't take it, they should probably disable comments when they publish.

As for why commenters are sometimes very sensitive, or even aggressive, I've no clue. But personally it doesn't bother me, I find it interesting.

 

[Bazzle]

The whole reason I put my work on here is to learn. On the fetish sites I have put my work on. Everyone says "thanks" but that does not help you learn.
By putting work out here, you can learn what you are doing wrong.

For me my stories lack full stops. I get it. I am trying to learn. From. It. Putting. Them. In. everywhere. now. hoping. it improves. my. stories.

We shall see.

B

 

[lovecraft68]

Yep, and that is the context of the OP. Solicited feedback here on the forums is a different thing, and not what I was talking about there.

If somebody indicates that they're open to public critique somewhere like Story Feedback, then that's great - other authors might also learn from the discussion. It's less likely to be productive as an uninvited comment.

This is a gray area type of thing. I agree in principle with your point, but my point earlier is if you post anything for public consumption and leave comments on, you're leaving yourself wide open.

Keep in mind, a lot of readers either don't know there's a feedback forum, or just never come to the boards, and what percentage of authors/stories are offered in this forum or something like awkwards review thread and others for review? a percentage of a percentage and often authors who are part of the forum community already.

This holds true everywhere. Any video on YT with comments enabled has a lot of positive comments and trolling comments and all manner of opinion because you're giving people the platform to say what do you think? So they tell you.

The issue isn't the platform, its the author. If you can't understand that by saying please leave a comment(and many authors solicit comments in their author notes, I do.) you're going to hear things you don't like, that the author's problem.

Also in a comment most people keep it short-although I've seen some that could be a story in themselves-so they're going to focus on whatever stood out to them the most, if its positive great, if its negative, that's the game.

I can't imagine what these people would do if they were people who sell on amazon where someone who never bought your book is allowed to run around and drop one star ratings on things and cost you actual money.

I'm with the OP, that a lot of authors are babies. Pet their ego, its great, tell them they need a proofreader because there's a lot of errors, and its reeeeeeeeeeeee. I get that one a lot, know what? They're right. I'm not as careful here as I am in other platforms. So, why would I get upset, its true.

As for anything that's opinion "I didn't like X about the story" that's their right to think that, doesn't mean its true.

Too much participation award BS on topics like this. I mean, what are these people like in real life when they hear something they don't like?

Grow up, or shut up is my take because its an awful and childish look when an author needs to reply to a comment or come running to the forum squealing because anymouse or Billybigballs85 said hurtful things about their story that they left the door open on for comments.

But I think this will solve itself. Either lit will come up with a "Nice comments only" feature, or the comments will cease to function and the site will never fix it, or even admit they're broken.

That last bit is pure well deserved snark. I'll be here all week.

 

[Lifestyle66]

This is a gray area type of thing. I agree in principle with your point, but my point earlier is if you post anything for public consumption and leave comments on, you're leaving yourself wide open.

Keep in mind, a lot of readers either don't know there's a feedback forum, or just never come to the boards, and what percentage of authors/stories are offered in this forum or something like awkwards review thread and others for review? a percentage of a percentage and often authors who are part of the forum community already.

This holds true everywhere. Any video on YT with comments enabled has a lot of positive comments and trolling comments and all manner of opinion because you're giving people the platform to say what do you think? So they tell you.

The issue isn't the platform, its the author. If you can't understand that by saying please leave a comment(and many authors solicit comments in their author notes, I do.) you're going to hear things you don't like, that the author's problem.

Also in a comment most people keep it short-although I've seen some that could be a story in themselves-so they're going to focus on whatever stood out to them the most, if its positive great, if its negative, that's the game.

I can't imagine what these people would do if they were people who sell on amazon where someone who never bought your book is allowed to run around and drop one star ratings on things and cost you actual money.

I'm with the OP, that a lot of authors are babies. Pet their ego, its great, tell them they need a proofreader because there's a lot of errors, and its reeeeeeeeeeeee. I get that one a lot, know what? They're right. I'm not as careful here as I am in other platforms. So, why would I get upset, its true.

As for anything that's opinion "I didn't like X about the story" that's their right to think that, doesn't mean its true.

Too much participation award BS on topics like this. I mean, what are these people like in real life when they hear something they don't like?

Grow up, or shut up is my take because its an awful and childish look when an author needs to reply to a comment or come running to the forum squealing because anymouse or Billybigballs85 said hurtful things about their story that they left the door open on for comments.

But I think this will solve itself. Either lit will come up with a "Nice comments only" feature, or the comments will cease to function and the site will never fix it, or even admit they're broken.

That last bit is pure well deserved snark. I'll be here all week.

I agree.

If the author leaves comments and ratings open, then they should take the bad with the good.

Some authors need to grow up and realize that any one comment or rating is ONE person's opinion out of seven and a half billion people on this planet. Keep it in perspective and move along.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm with the OP, that a lot of authors are babies. Pet their ego, its great, tell them they need a proofreader because there's a lot of errors, and its reeeeeeeeeeeee. I get that one a lot, know what? They're right. I'm not as careful here as I am in other platforms. So, why would I get upset, its true.

I agree some authors are overly precious about their stories. But some commenters are overly precious about their comments, too. They don't just want to offer their two cents' worth, they want the author to treat it like it's fifty bucks worth.

 

[tangledweed]

As someone who has commented a fair bit on stories, I have learned a thing or two about it and I am still learning about the process. I have been an asshole more times than I like to admit and have no excuse for that. Now I try to ignore spelling/grammar matters unless they are so extreme that the story is unreadable. My critiques have become less caustic. If I think a new writer has potential, I will buffer my critical comments with encouraging ones. Writers are providing free content, often with little or no editing support and it isn't really fair to hold them to a professional standard. Now I try to limit those comments to the actual story content. I can still be an asshole, but I am trying not to be a gaping one.

Some writers take offense at any suggestions for improvement in the comments section and will either attack you or delete your comments. You have to expect that, if you are stepping onto their turf. If they don't appreciate your feedback, just move on. You don't have to read them and they don't have to be nice to you. I have been blown away at how well I have been received by some authors whose work I am in awe of and have been disappointed when others have deleted well thought out comments or responded negatively, but there is no obligation either way. I understand the frustration of the OP, but we have to understand that not everyone wants what we are offering and we can't force them to.

As for other commenters taking shots at you, engaging them is a lost cause and goes nowhere. Like someone else said, if multiple people disagree with you, the problem may be with you. I will leave you with a quote from the best TV show of all time and am not referring to anyone here personally.

Raylan Givens (Justified)

“If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”​

 

[KeithD]

I agree.

If the author leaves comments and ratings open, then they should take the bad with the good.

Try reality. Leaving comments open is NOT a request for negative feedback on a free-use, share story site. We wouldn't have threads like this and reaction to threads like this overwise. Don't be an asshole should be the rule. Look for more evidence than just leaving comments open to determine whether negative guidance by an unknown stranger is sought or welcomed and even then it's best to deliver it privately. Don't be an asshole.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree some authors are overly precious about their stories. But some commenters are overly precious about their comments, too. They don't just want to offer their two cents' worth, they want the author to treat it like it's fifty bucks worth.

Which brings us back to how the author handles it, and how seriously you take it.
Something else we haven't addressed here is the private feedback option where people can send more detailed comments. I imagine the same people who can't handle a comment, must really froth over that, but if the option is open, then the other person is going to feel invited.

Maybe in some cases it comes down to careful what you wish for.

 

[lovecraft68]

Try reality. Leaving comments open is NOT a request for negative feedback on a free-use, share story site. We wouldn't have threads like this and reaction to threads like this overwise. Don't be an asshole should be the rule. Look for more evidence than just leaving comments open to determine whether negative guidance by an unknown stranger is sought or welcomed and even then it's best to deliver it privately. Don't be an asshole.

Unless of course those comments are gushing praise and feedback....left by one's self under another name.
Don't be an asshole coming from you is rich indeed.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Try reality. Leaving comments open is NOT a request for negative feedback on a free-use, share story site. We wouldn't have threads like this and reaction to threads like this overwise. Don't be an asshole should be the rule. Look for more evidence than just leaving comments open to determine whether negative guidance by an unknown stranger is sought or welcomed and even then it's best to deliver it privately. Don't be an asshole.

I like writing stories for the troll-heavy Loving Wives category (if that's where the story belongs), where assholes abound. I try to write stories about "extra-marital FUN and sharing", which is that LW category definition/tag line! But I still get plenty of "Eat shit and die" type comments. (That was an actual comment on one of my stories, which I think the site Admins deleted.) And my latest story is averaging 2.08 due to those 1-bombs.

But I leave all comments there because that is merely ONE out of 7.5 billion opinions in the world, and I can keep it in perspective. So, I have a different perspective on those who have issues dealing with such hateful comments like "your poor grammar is distracting".

Leaving comments open IS a request for feedback, so be prepared for the bad with the good. Perhaps I'm the asshole for believing some authors ARE overly sensitive by expecting only the good.

 

[KeithD]

I read the entire thread, and it's worth the time to take a step back from the specifics and look again at the OP's general question - 'What's with the thin skin and hyper-aggressiveness?'

I think a major takeaway from this thread was that the OP is what he was complaining about.

 

[KeithD]

Leaving comments open IS a request for feedback, so be prepared for the bad with the good.

Not in most cases at Literotica, I don't believe. This is a free-use amateur writing site. The reality is that most of those leaving comments open are looking for favorable connection, not writing guidance. And you are assuming too much when you assume you are just the person to educate them and that's what they want. You get what started threads like this. Again, don't be an asshole in your use of Literotica.

 

[astushkin]

So interesting the varied takes we authors have on the commenting process. But what strikes me more in this thread is what the two self-described readers (OP and tangledweed) said. OP said they had recently jumped from commenting anonymously to commenting with a username. tangledweed said they had stopped commenting on grammar and now focused more on the story comment. Recurring threads in the AH suggest the common frustration with anonymous (negative) commenters, and commenters who nitpick grammar. I may be naive (or emboldened by the cocktails my husband made), but I feel heartened by this thread in which readers and authors have interacted. It seems too often that there is a rancorous divide between us.

 

[CuMex1]

I try to figure this out myself I forget the name of the author exactly but the author was some racist pussy white guy who was getting mad at people for calling out the fetishism type of stories he kept writing.

 

[KeithD]

And you couldn't just walk away and ignore him and his stories?

 

[burgwad]

Feedback? I eats what I like. I ignores what I don't. And then I come back and eats that stuff too, eventually, whenever I'm feeling hungry enough.

What I do reject permanently is whenever someone rates my story a 1.0 out of 5.0 for containing kinks they don't like, regardless of the tags I've added to warn them. If you hate pineapple on pizza, order a pizza with pineapple on it, and then leave my restaurant a 1-star review because you hate pineapple on pizza, then you have hurt both me and you for no reason.

 

[AlinaX]

I think it's funny when someone comments to say they've given me 1/5. I thank them for the pretty star.

 

[lovecraft68]

So interesting the varied takes we authors have on the commenting process. But what strikes me more in this thread is what the two self-described readers (OP and tangledweed) said. OP said they had recently jumped from commenting anonymously to commenting with a username. tangledweed said they had stopped commenting on grammar and now focused more on the story comment. Recurring threads in the AH suggest the common frustration with anonymous (negative) commenters, and commenters who nitpick grammar. I may be naive (or emboldened by the cocktails my husband made), but I feel heartened by this thread in which readers and authors have interacted. It seems too often that there is a rancorous divide between us.

You make a very good point, and to me its not a good look for the defensive authors here because you're right, they always cry about anymouse. Now you have two anon's who made handles to comment with and came here to the boards to discuss 'face to face' with authors.

And the amount of backlash they received makes the case of why some readers stay anon. They're not all trolls and cowards, but maybe they don't want to deal with whiners and BS either.

 

[Bazzle]

So interesting the varied takes we authors have on the commenting process. But what strikes me more in this thread is what the two self-described readers (OP and tangledweed) said. OP said they had recently jumped from commenting anonymously to commenting with a username. tangledweed said they had stopped commenting on grammar and now focused more on the story comment. Recurring threads in the AH suggest the common frustration with anonymous (negative) commenters, and commenters who nitpick grammar. I may be naive (or emboldened by the cocktails my husband made), but I feel heartened by this thread in which readers and authors have interacted. It seems too often that there is a rancorous divide between us.

I think that divide is because we as authors cannot easily reply especially with so many anonymous peeps- unless we clutter our comments with "thanks for x y and z. Sorry about a,b, and c. I will do better next time?

A reply function just like TripAdvisor gives could be useful? If not abused?