When America was great

[Wilson23]

To Trump's WWC, America was great from WWII to 1980, when it possible for a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education to earn a middle-class income -- when the boundaries between working class and middle class blurred. Through manual labor one could earn enough to live in the 'burbs, own two cars, and send the kids to college. An American economy of broadly shared prosperity. "Guys like us we had it made! Those were the daaays!"

Trump implicitly promises to restore that historically unusual situation. But he can't.

 

[Wilson23]

Trump implicitly promises to restore that historically unusual situation. But he can't.

And who else can?

 

[Wilson23]

The high-wage low-skill manufacturing jobs existed under rare circumstances: The U.S. dominated manufacturing outside the Communist bloc, and exported American-made goods around the globe, and strong labor unions made sure the workers got their share of the profits.

And yet Americans came to think of it as NORMAL, as part of the natural order of things.

That all changed because:
1. Other countries caught up, repaired all the damage from WWII, rebuilt their manufacturing.
2. Corporations waged a successful war on unions.
3. Corporations figured out they could save labor costs by outsourcing and offshoring the manufacturing to countries with cheap labor, weak unions, and pro-biz governments.
4. Technological unemployment -- automation replaced a lot of jobs.

Now, what is Trump doing, that will fix any of that?

 

[Wilson23]

I must admit this is one area where I see no moderate social-democratic solutions -- because the problem is inherent in competitive market capitalism: BUSINESSES DO WHATEVER THEY CAN TO CUT THEIR LABOR COSTS. They must, to survive competition -- the competitor who automates before you do can bring cheaper goods to market.

What short of full-on state socialism could put a stop to THAT?!

 

[Wilson23]

Past efforts to fight poverty have assumed it is only a matter of making the job-seeker fit to earn.

The problem is more deep and systemic than that. Maybe UBI would help.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Basic_income

 

[nowisthetime]

To Trump's WWC, America was great from WWII to 1980, when it possible for a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education to earn a middle-class income -- when the boundaries between working class and middle class blurred. Through manual labor one could earn enough to live in the 'burbs, own two cars, and send the kids to college. An American economy of broadly shared prosperity. "Guys like us we had it made! Those were the daaays!"

Trump implicitly promises to restore that historically unusual situation. But he can't.

The post-WWII “golden age” happened because of very specific policies and conditions- strong unions, high taxes on the wealthy, major public investment, and the country dominating a wrecked global economy. All of these systems made a comfortable middle class life possible.

The felon can’t bring that back because he refuses to rebuild the policies that created it. Instead of talking about wages, housing, or healthcare, he sells grievance and revenge....and grifting.

He doesn't care, he only ran to stay out of prison and to get even being the petty manchild that he is!

 

[Wilson23]

Curious that for all his nostalgic evocation, Trump NEVER says anything about bringing back strong labor unions.

 

[JohnEngelman]

To Trump's WWC, America was great from WWII to 1980, when it possible for a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education to earn a middle-class income -- when the boundaries between working class and middle class blurred. Through manual labor one could earn enough to live in the 'burbs, own two cars, and send the kids to college. An American economy of broadly shared prosperity. "Guys like us we had it made! Those were the daaays!"

Trump implicitly promises to restore that historically unusual situation. But he can't.

I agree with most of that, but I do not think the US economy ever really recovered from the inflationary recession of 1974. Since then there have been greater rewards at the top of our economy, but there have been fewer rewards. The U.S. economy has been less forgiving of bad decisions, bad luck, and failure.

 

[nowisthetime]

Curious that for all his nostalgic evocation, Trump NEVER says anything about bringing back strong labor unions.

Of course not!

All the nostalgia about the post-WWII middle class, he never talks about the one thing that actually made that era possible: strong labor unions. You can’t recreate that economy without collective bargaining and worker power. Either he doesn’t understand that, or he simply doesn’t care (probably both). That shows you how he really feels.

 

[JohnEngelman]

And who else can?

Zohran Mamdani comes close. With economic growth no longer possible for the working and middle classes economic redistribution becomes more attractive .

 

[Wilson23]

Zohran Mamdani comes close. With economic growth no longer possible for the working and middle classes economic redistribution becomes more attractive .

A mayor really can't do much in the way of redistribution.

 

[briancamdudetenger2018]

when was usa great

well id say the pre 2016 era before the president donnie j trump era began

 

[SebastianHolt]

The high-wage low-skill manufacturing jobs existed under rare circumstances: The U.S. dominated manufacturing outside the Communist bloc, and exported American-made goods around the globe, and strong labor unions made sure the workers got their share of the profits.

And yet Americans came to think of it as NORMAL, as part of the natural order of things.

That all changed because:
1. Other countries caught up, repaired all the damage from WWII, rebuilt their manufacturing.
2. Corporations waged a successful war on unions.
3. Corporations figured out they could save labor costs by outsourcing and offshoring the manufacturing to countries with cheap labor, weak unions, and pro-biz governments.
4. Technological unemployment -- automation replaced a lot of jobs.

Now, what is Trump doing, that will fix any of that?

unions killed manufacturing. automation and a.i. will kill off any and all union jobs

 

[Wilson23]

unions killed manufacturing.

No, they didn't. Manufacturers killed unions.

 

[Chilllax]

when it possible for a white man,

Just curious - are you talking about making America great "again", just for white men? Sorry, I do not quite follow.
FWIW,.I think it's still the greatest country in the world.

 

[Wilson23]

Just curious - are you talking about making America great "again", just for white men? Sorry, I do not quite follow.
FWIW,.I think it's still the greatest country in the world.

Because I am talking about a time when it WAS great, but just for white men, and that is the past greatness the MAGA movement has in mind.

 

[Chilllax]

Because I am talking about a time when it WAS great, but just for white men, and that is the past greatness the MAGA movement has in mind.

Gotcha. Somehow it read differently and rather than assume, I wanted to check. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[SebastianHolt]

unions killed manufacturing. automation and a.i. will kill off any and all union jobs

us in the 70s ---- started to ship production overseas. first to Korea, than Japan ... due to the unions
the only thing really left at that point was auto manufacturing

so yes, the unions killed u.s. manufacturing

 

[Wilson23]

us in the 70s ---- started to ship production overseas. first to Korea, than Japan ... due to the unions
the only thing really left at that point was auto manufacturing

so yes, the unions killed u.s. manufacturing

That happened because they could find cheaper labor abroad. The MANUFACTURERS made that decision, not the unions. "Look what YOU made me do!"

 

[SebastianHolt]

Because I am talking about a time when it WAS great, but just for white men, and that is the past greatness the MAGA movement has in mind.

America is still GREAT! just have to be smart and do vs waste all day, day after day, week after week .... on a porn website.

you can still become a millionaire (although that won't get you far) if you do the work. sadly, you refuse to do the work

 

[Wilson23]

America is still GREAT! just have to be smart and do vs waste all day, day after day, week after week .... on a porn website.

you can still become a millionaire (although that won't get you far) if you do the work. sadly, you refuse to do the work

There is now less social mobility in the U.S. than in the social democracies of Europe.

 

[PersonalFavors]

To Trump's WWC, America was great from WWII to 1980, when it possible for a white man, at any rate, with only a high-school education to earn a middle-class income -- when the boundaries between working class and middle class blurred. Through manual labor one could earn enough to live in the 'burbs, own two cars, and send the kids to college. An American economy of broadly shared prosperity. "Guys like us we had it made! Those were the daaays!"

Trump implicitly promises to restore that historically unusual situation. But he can't.

Trump is bringing all that back. Apparently not fast enough for you.

Those 'daaays' have been trashed ever since Al Gore invented the internet and climate change.

 

[SebastianHolt]

There is now less social mobility in the U.S. than in the social democracies of Europe.

bullshit, just means that Americans have become slackers. The kids coming out of college are like little baby birds, unable to solve a problem on their own, and they just sit there waiting to be spoon fed

 

[PersonalFavors]

bullshit, just means that Americans have become slackers. The kids coming out of college are like little baby birds, unable to solve a problem on their own, and they just sit there waiting to be spoon fed

I dunno. The son child is doing pretty well. More mtg payment than I would choke down. But their kid is learning at light speed, which is wonderful to see. A 6 year old adult. 3 cool dogs and happiness. They didn't get there by not working. Unlike his Mom, his wife can cook too!

 

[Wilson23]

bullshit, just means that Americans have become slackers.

N.B.: Most things of that kind you might say against people, even when true, are NOT their own fault.