Where are all the men?

[ownedsubgal]

I checked the current theory on date rape.

Social sex script in America lays out that the women is supose to be reluctant and the guy is supose to seduce her. Works great in the movies when Bogart forces a "kiss", but in reality?

---

On a related note, when I was little I was playing barbies with my sister.

Yes I was playing barbies and I am a man hear me roar and pound my chest, etc.

Anyway, I was ken, she was barbie, and we got married, had the first kiss in a chariot, and then went home to have sex. Problem was we couldn't agree on who was supose to initiate the sex. I said the girl was supose to seduce, she said its the guy that starts stuff. So we got in a fight.

siblings, lol. since i was an only child, most of the time i just had to play alone, and created several simultaneous elaborate fantasy worlds as a result...not really good for socialization. but anywho, when neighborhood kids happened to come over, the boys would always play barbies with me. i think it was because i had such an awesome set-up...the really decked out barbie dream house with cool furniture, a remote control convertible car they could ride in, and even a barbie burger/diner the barbies could travel to. i think those little neighborhood boys broke that barbie convertible like 10 times.

 

[xPoisonx]

I think real men are going the same way as bees.

Extinct.

 

[YourCaptor]

siblings, lol. since i was an only child, most of the time i just had to play alone, and created several simultaneous elaborate fantasy worlds as a result...not really good for socialization. but anywho, when neighborhood kids happened to come over, the boys would always play barbies with me. i think it was because i had such an awesome set-up...the really decked out barbie dream house with cool furniture, a remote control convertible car they could ride in, and even a barbie burger/diner the barbies could travel to. i think those little neighborhood boys broke that barbie convertible like 10 times.

Sweet, we should have been friends. I could have brought my dinosaur collection over and we could have played dinosaurs and barbies.

Parents where very stingy about what toys I got. I always wanted monsters to terrorize the other toys with but usually only got hard rubber dinosaurs (education, yet anatomically incorrect). I did once trick them into getting me this 80’s homoerotic version of what I now know must have been a ninja turtle. Used that to rape all the other toys till my little brother threw it in the trash cause he was scared of it.

You know I wonder if we would have gotten along.

 

[JMohegan]

I think real men are going the same way as bees.

Extinct.

If the bees go, any effects from fading masculinity will pale in comparison to our dining problems.

What do you consider to be the distinguishing characteristics of a "real man?"


On the global front of the real man war, I found The Herbivore's Dilemma interesting. Apparently, a significant number of males in Japan are rejecting both the traditional Japanese definition of masculinity, and what is perceived to be the Western commercialization of relationships as well.

 

[intothewoods]

<snip>
And it can be even rougher when you get out in the world and find out that it doesn't qualify you for any sort of decent employment, either. No disrespect, but life often sucks that way. I've known plenty of people who pursued majors in fields they loved, only to come out with a mountain of debt and no decent career avenues to pay it off.

By all means I want everyone to pursue the fields that they love in terms of education, but I really want them to consider their end-product as well. If you're getting a degree with no great demand, be prepared to be satisfied with 'lesser' career potential than in-demand degrees. Too many people seem to go into the whole thing expecting that a college degree is a magic piece of paper that will set their course for a lifetime of martinis and high society.

It'll increase earning power for sure, but an engineer is probably going to make a lot more money off their degree than a history major.

Just to be clear on my point, I'm not arguing that these fields shouldn't be studied, but that they should be approached with clear vision of the potential outcome. </snip>

I'm also not ignoring your request for my point of view on whether or not certain subjects are a luxury. I'm just too brain dead at the moment.

In response to this paragraph, I agree with the last point. I don't think becoming an engineer is necessarily the answer to avoiding having a "useless" degree. If you're not cut out for engineering then you may very well not succeed in that field. A better solution is to require a balance of classes and have better career counseling centers.

As far as the luxury comment goes, I suppose it depends on your meaning. I took it sort of snidely, as if to say that a BA in English is worthless because it does not translate immediately into a job earning six figures. To be sure, I was jealous of my engineering friends in college during senior year, but I was able to find a decent job as well. It just took a bit more looking and introspection on my part to determine what I wanted to do, and what was out there, of course. Of course, I absolutely agree that there needs to be more practical job-seeking advice for liberal arts majors.

If by luxury you meant that some people do not have a choice in terms of their job, career, going to college and on and on, I agree. Again, I took it in a certain way in the moment.

Defend it from what?

I'm not saying the study of literature shouldn't be required. All I'm saying is that asking me to write about Faulkner, poetry, or anything else with alleged hidden meanings and elaborate, obscure metaphors, the point of which I really don't understand, is an ineffective way to attempt to teach me expository skills.

I agree with you that essay skills can, and should, be taught in multiple subjects. My 10th grade history teacher taught me to write.

Itself, no doubt.

I understand. I felt that way about Foucault. I must enjoy obscure metaphors and hidden meanings.

 

[Homburg]

I have a BA in Philosophy. I'm sure there are degrees out there that are more "useless", but most people would have to think to come up with them. After all, and english degree might land you a job teaching english.

I had a prospective employee ask me about my degree. He said that he saw a lot of business degrees, accounting degrees, etc, but that I was the first philosophy degree holder he'd interviewed. He asked me why I took it. I told him the truth. I took it because it interested me. Short of an applied degree like accounting, business, engineering, etc, a liberal arts degree is a box you check on an application marked "degree". I wasn't going to get one of those specialised degrees, so I might as well get one that I was interested in, and thus get something for my money beyond a "degree".

He then asked me what the degree was good for. I told him that any BA will provide you with knowledge, but a philosophy degree will teach you understanding. I did not learn some obscure subject to the nth degree. I learned how to think, how to form reasoned conclusions, and how to support my conclusions in speech and writing.

I got the job, useless degree and all.

 

[JMohegan]

I must enjoy obscure metaphors and hidden meanings.

Apparently quite a few people do. Just as quite a few people enjoy owning cats. The fact that I find both of these things just as foreign and incomprehensible as anything on earth doesn't mean I don't believe in your right to indulge your preference.

True, neither the metaphor thing nor the cat thing will put food on the table directly. But we've moved far enough away from the days of subsistence farming that I consider that point irrelevant.

The English majors I knew, back in the day, went on to law school or a graduate degree in journalism. As far as the ability to feed themselves goes, they're currently doing fine.

Grad school in the humanities appears to be a different story, these days at least. This piece seems quite revealing.

 

[Homburg]

Grad school in the humanities appears to be a different story, these days at least. This piece seems quite revealing.

This is why I did not pursue grad school even though I had one of my professors literally grab me by the shoulders and shake me while yelling that I MUST GO TO GRAD SCHOOL because he loved my work. That same prof had a doctorate from Harvard and life experience that was unbelievably awesome for a religious studies prof (living in India and studying under the Maharashi among other things), and he'd just earned tenure the year before. His example was solid enough that I didn't need to be told the horrible truth behind humanities doctorates. I was not going to have a doctorate from Harvard, and I was not bloody likely going to spend years in India at the foot of a famous spiritual leader. My prospective resume looked thin by comparison, and he'd had trouble finding a job.

 

[intothewoods]

Apparently quite a few people do. Just as quite a few people enjoy owning cats. The fact that I find both of these things just as foreign and incomprehensible as anything on earth doesn't mean I don't believe in your right to indulge your preference.

True, neither the metaphor thing nor the cat thing will put food on the table directly. But we've moved far enough away from the days of subsistence farming that I consider that point irrelevant.

The English majors I knew, back in the day, went on to law school or a graduate degree in journalism. As far as the ability to feed themselves goes, they're currently doing fine.

Grad school in the humanities appears to be a different story, these days at least. This piece seems quite revealing.

I actually wasn't an English major, btw. Not that it matters, but I wasn't feeling defensive about myself. Mostly I was just tired. At any rate, as I'm sure you know, you can major in anything and go to law school. Philosophy is a pretty good one.

Academia is incredibly competitive. You generally need to graduate from a top five school, with impeccable grades, recommendations, etc. Even that is not always enough. And it's a rough, competitive line of work. Probably not what people expect to hear, but it's true!

 

[Homburg]

I actually wasn't an English major, btw. Not that it matters, but I wasn't feeling defensive about myself. Mostly I was just tired. At any rate, as I'm sure you know, you can major in anything and go to law school. Philosophy is a pretty good one.

I've thought about this. I was actually in the process of doing the paperwork to get a previous employer's assistance towards going for a law degree. Then 9/11 wiped out the company's reserves, and the lay-offs started. I haven't been with a company that has a worthwhile education assistance policy since.

Academia is incredibly competitive. You generally need to graduate from a top five school, with impeccable grades, recommendations, etc. Even that is not always enough. And it's a rough, competitive line of work. Probably not what people expect to hear, but it's true!

It is not just competitive. It is actively cutthroat. The politics I watched in the philosophy dept of my alma mater were nothing short of brutal.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm getting my master's in English. This conversation saddens me.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm getting my master's in English. This conversation saddens me.

Well, it depends on what you want to do with your degree. And knowledge is power!

I've thought about this. I was actually in the process of doing the paperwork to get a previous employer's assistance towards going for a law degree. Then 9/11 wiped out the company's reserves, and the lay-offs started. I haven't been with a company that has a worthwhile education assistance policy since.

It's a very expensive degree but can be worth it if you go into a practice area that's a good match for your skills. I feel ridiculously lucky these days. I didn't always feel that way. In fact, I think I was bitching about life-work balance a couple of months ago! That's a different issue, but anyway, recently I decided to put on my big girl panties and make it work as best as possible.

It is not just competitive. It is actively cutthroat. The politics I watched in the philosophy dept of my alma mater were nothing short of brutal.

Yes, I have some personal though indirect experience with this.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I'm getting my master's in English. This conversation saddens me.

But at least you can express your sadness effectively.



(You know I lub ya, Bunny... I just couldn't resist the comment. Sometimes I have no self-discipline. )

 

[Sir_Winston54]

....recently I decided to put on my big girl panties ....

Dammit!

 

[intothewoods]

Dammit!

My way is Hanes Her Way

No, seriously, love their underwear!

 

[BiBunny]

Well, it depends on what you want to do with your degree. And knowledge is power!

I wanna write. I kept thinking of other things I should do, but I really don't want to do those things. Yes, I realize saying you want to write is probably a gateway to being a waitress for the rest of your life, LOL.

But at least you can express your sadness effectively.

I know, right?

[(You know I lub ya, Bunny... I just couldn't resist the comment. Sometimes I have no self-discipline. )

It's ok, Sir W. I lub you, too!

 

[Netzach]

I was an art major. You know, ha ha, starving, flipping burgers.

I make a living making things. The issue is, can you be flexible, impure, and product-oriented enough to make something people actually want?

There's no shortage of work if you are. Or if you don't mind some phone sex to pad out your coffers.

 

[intothewoods]

I wanna write. I kept thinking of other things I should do, but I really don't want to do those things. Yes, I realize saying you want to write is probably a gateway to being a waitress for the rest of your life, LOL.

Not necessarily. Most of my work involves writing.

 

[Shankara20]

My way is Hanes Her Way

No, seriously, love their underwear!

and that makes at least two of us

 

[BiBunny]

I was an art major. You know, ha ha, starving, flipping burgers.

I make a living making things. The issue is, can you be flexible, impure, and product-oriented enough to make something people actually want?

There's no shortage of work if you are. Or if you don't mind some phone sex to pad out your coffers.

I'm good on both points. I don't mind writing boring web content or whatever. And phone sex makes up the majority of my income right now, LOL.

 

[Netzach]

I'm good on both points. I don't mind writing boring web content or whatever. And phone sex makes up the majority of my income right now, LOL.

You'll be fine, it'll take some tweaking, but it'll be fine. Don't ignore those silly call for freelance things if you can really write about anything - I can't, but if I could I would do those.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Not at all, if it gets much more complex than "If Bobby has 6 apples and Susan gives him 3 more apples, how many apples does Bobby have?"

Sorry, i missed your answer during the first review of the thread. Next silly question, if you don't mind. When a teacher (any, it doesn't matter the subject) presents new material, which instructional method turns on the light bulb fastest: visual, or verbal? i ask because geometry, and trig were more difficult for me to grasp until the trig teacher presented a lesson in a more visual manner. Something clicked in a major way for me and actually reorg'd previous lessons i had just learned by rote. i had her for calculus as well, thank God.

 

[CutieMouse]

Sorry, i missed your answer during the first review of the thread. Next silly question, if you don't mind. When a teacher (any, it doesn't matter the subject) presents new material, which instructional method turns on the light bulb fastest: visual, or verbal? i ask because geometry, and trig were more difficult for me to grasp until the trig teacher presented a lesson in a more visual manner. Something clicked in a major way for me and actually reorg'd previous lessons i had just learned by rote. i had her for calculus as well, thank God.

I finally realized in the whole education discussion what's paralyzed me about submitting an application to community college for next fall.

Math.

The academic advisor said I'd have to take a placement exam for mathematics, because I flunked out my Freshman year of college...

sheer.utter.panic.

I've run a household budget, kept coupon calculations in my head, broken down cost per ounce while shopping, taught my 7 year old to do algebra in his head while at a water park - but I can't do math. The idea of having to sit in a class and learn that particular foreign language terrifies me.

*shudder*

 

[BiBunny]

You'll be fine, it'll take some tweaking, but it'll be fine. Don't ignore those silly call for freelance things if you can really write about anything - I can't, but if I could I would do those.

I'm going to do my best. *Crosses fingers*


As far as math goes, I'm on of those people who basically sucked at math. I did reasonably well in basic algebra, until we got to the graph this line part, and my brain went "Oh, HELL, no." Geometry, trig, and calculus? Ugh, God. The only reason I passed any of those in high school was that we got lots of bonus points for doing our homework. I don't think I have any spatial intelligence whatsoever, outside the ability to read maps.

I learn best by reading things and then doing them myself. Unfortunately, you can't really *read* math textbooks. They aren't written in a way that makes any sense. And I only had one math teacher in high school and one in college who could explain things in a way that I could grasp. My math skills are like those of basically any English major, LOL.

 

[00Syd]

Sorry, i missed your answer during the first review of the thread. Next silly question, if you don't mind. When a teacher (any, it doesn't matter the subject) presents new material, which instructional method turns on the light bulb fastest: visual, or verbal? i ask because geometry, and trig were more difficult for me to grasp until the trig teacher presented a lesson in a more visual manner. Something clicked in a major way for me and actually reorg'd previous lessons i had just learned by rote. i had her for calculus as well, thank God.

I've never had math taught to me in any way that was successful.

I've come to realize that I'm much more of a visual learner. For example, I was always excellent at biology, I got good grades and lots of praise from my teachers. Once the class got down to the cellular level, though, I was completely lost and my grades slipped quite a bit. I just for the life of me could not grasp the inner workings of cells. Certain hormones cause a cell to produce this toxin which then does X, Y, and Z.... What? No way, am I going to get that. Where did the hormone come from? What is it? What does it look like? Why does it do that? Etc. If I can't picture it, I'm just not going to get it.

Most math is far, far too abstract for me to be able to grasp. Sure, I can place a bunch of bricks on a table and physically add, subtract, and multiply them (actually how I learned to do those things in elementary), but there are only so many bricks I can picture in my mind at once, and I can't picture them at all once they get turned into a letter. No fucking way. You might as well put some ancient Japanese characters in front of me, for all the meaning I'm going to get out of 'em.

I finally realized in the whole education discussion what's paralyzed me about submitting an application to community college for next fall.

Math.

The academic advisor said I'd have to take a placement exam for mathematics, because I flunked out my Freshman year of college...

sheer.utter.panic.

I've run a household budget, kept coupon calculations in my head, broken down cost per ounce while shopping, taught my 7 year old to do algebra in his head while at a water park - but I can't do math. The idea of having to sit in a class and learn that particular foreign language terrifies me.

*shudder*

I don't blame you. I am absolutely petrified that I won't be able to graduate college because I won't be able to pass the math requirement.

I almost didn't graduate high school because of the Math Regents exam. Ended up passing it my senior year with THE passing grade. It was truly a miracle.

Oh, and I have to commend you for being able to keep coupon calculations in your head, break down cost per ounce while shopping, and knowing algebra well enough to teach it - these are all skills that completely and utterly evade me.

Math is really the only thing that has ever made me feel despair-worthy levels of stupid. The only times I ever cried in school were during math class.