Who really has the power on a relationship?

[OldGuy1026]

Who has the power in a relationship? Good question and all a matter of perspective.

In BDSM, RL I think it is the Submissive, because according to the rules the Submissive can say the safe word and stop the session.

In cyber BDSM I think the Domme has the power of when and where and how much.

In DWC, the Wife has all the power, and for what I've been learning, no safe word. When the husband pisses off his wife, he gets it bad and now way out. Think about that.

So it's all a matter of prespective and your point of view.

 

[smallgirl]

Its true about the power thing. my husband is slightly more invested in us than i am but i rarely act like a bitch and if i did he wouldn't put up with it. If i get too far out of line in fact i find myself on the owie end of his belt. That said he does not have as much power as he used to. He would put up with more bad "stuff" from me than i would from him but i still compromise A LOT just out of habit. i've been doing it so long i don't know how to stop. i have to be careful though because if i compromise too much or carry too much of the load the resentment starts building like a cancer. i try really hard to be equal which means standing up for myself even if i disagree with him which is actually what he wants. Against my will i think he's actually making me healthier.

i think the legal system favoring mothers for child custody has allowed a lot of women turn into real bitches. i've met a lot of men online who only stick around because they are afraid of losing their kids. That's sad.

as a mother i have to agree. men shouldnt loose out on their kids simply cause they divorce. every other weekend isnt enough..hubby and i were talking about this..generally women do have all the power when it comes to the kids. she has the dad by the balls so to speak. i think there needs to be a better way to keep both parents just as involved after the divorce as before.

 

[ataxia.girl]

This thread riles me in so many different ways it's untrue, so I will only say that the rhetoric about men being lost applies to the older generations, who were brought up in an environment when men were seen as superior. Newer generations, myself included, have been raised differently. That's a distinction that isn't being made.

Could be. Economically its probably good there's a level playing field and i am probably suffering from the same perception problems as the people who tell me my husband is a saint. i'm thinking men are lost because they no longer have a monopoly on everything...

On the other hand More U.S. Women Than Men Have College Degrees or this NY Times Article: At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust . So you can go ahead and be angry i guess.

Relationship wise i think both sexes are trying to figure out gender roles. i think we miss the sexual polarity.

Don't get me wrong i don't want to go back to the way things were. i do know that the reason i am able to set the terms at work that i do is because i'm a woman and i hear it a lot. Female doctors demanding less hours and getting them. Female lawyers demanding to work from home after they have had children and getting it. i've even seen it in my own company with other women. They have a baby and never have to work in the office again. i think this is a good thing but i also hear men who aren't so old gripe about it.

ETA: It occurred to me you might be riled by my intimation that women get more shit done. i'm only 36. The men i work with are in the same age bracket or younger and most of them have college degrees. Yes i'm only talking about corporate culture in one company but i work in IT and work with men in IT all over the country and i have seen first hand more women able to bridge the gap and facilitate communication between male departments to get shit done than men of my same generation. Its interesting to watch which projects take off and which ones lie fallow and fade away because its too hard to get group x to cooperate with group z. That said there does tend to be a sort of macho attitude amongst a lot of men in technology, a trend i think is changing among younger men. In technology i think you are probably going to notice a bigger cultural difference between a thirty something and a twenty something.

The firm my husband is in is a different industry, still male dominated for the moment but changing rapidly, and he does not see the same trend AS MUCH. There are still times he wants to pull his hair out because this guy can't cooperate and communicate with this guy so guess what happens. Nothing. This just reminded me there are two women in his office who have demanded to work from home and now do. i don't think there are any men who do.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Something like that - but women are struggling too.

i completely agree. Not only do i struggle personally but i have a single sister who is a decade younger than me on the other side of the country. Its interesting to listen to her experience and to hear what she says about her female and male friends. Its like she wants to be an equal partner in a relationship but she doesn't. She wants the guy to be a Man and wear the pants but not really but maybe but she wants to be equal but but but.

You can imagine how the guy feels and the second she suspects he's trying to be whatever it is she wants that she can't put her finger on the relationship is over.

i grapple with the wanting to be equal but not thing a lot.

 

[Homburg]

Its like they don't know how to reach out to each other and just get shit done because god forbid someone think they do not know exactly what they are doing.

I've never understood this attitude. If I don't know something, I have no problems admitting to it. How else am I going to learn? More importantly, one of the earliest, and best, lessons I learned vis a vis investigation/social engineering is that a little bit of friendly "aw, shucks" feigned stupidity can go a long, long way.

What you are talking about is insecurity, plain and simple.

--

ETA: It occurred to me you might be riled by my intimation that women get more shit done. i'm only 36. The men i work with are in the same age bracket or younger and most of them have college degrees. Yes i'm only talking about corporate culture in one company but i work in IT and work with men in IT all over the country and i have seen first hand more women able to bridge the gap and facilitate communication between male departments to get shit done than men of my same generation. Its interesting to watch which projects take off and which ones lie fallow and fade away because its too hard to get group x to cooperate with group z. That said there does tend to be a sort of macho attitude amongst a lot of men in technology, a trend i think is changing among younger men. In technology i think you are probably going to notice a bigger cultural difference between a thirty something and a twenty something.

I would argue that it is a combination of things.

First, women, by and large, are better communicators than men in regards to purely verbal communication. A lot of what IT does is verbal communication over the phone. Assuming similar training and comprehension of material, women are going to have a slight edge due to a slightly stronger facility in verbal communication.

Second, IT is a new field, and not as set in its' ways as law, engineering, etc. And given that the tech that the field is based on is changing so rapidly as well, IT has to have more flexibility built into the system than, again, law, engineering, etc.

--

As to power, the answer is simple. Neither party has more power inherently. And that goes for vanilla or BDSM. In modern, civilised areas, we all walk into the relationship with the same ability to walk right out again. The circumstances of the individual may well make that a poor choice, but it is there. It is the individual that determines how much power they cede, and, again, that goes for vanilla or BDSM, doesn't matter. The only difference is that we talk the power exchange over.

Obviously, third world nations where women have no rights or individual situations where a party cannot leave, are both exceptions to what I'm saying.

 

[MisterSir]

On the other hand More U.S. Women Than Men Have College Degrees or this NY Times Article: At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust . So you can go ahead and be angry i guess.

Reading just the first page of that second article, you've chosen one where no mention of subjects or grades or anything but possession of the degree is made and another where the two people in question have quite clearly been cherry-picked for the role - the woman working her ass off, the man not bothered. That's a very fair descriptor of both genders </sarcasm>.

Don't get me wrong i don't want to go back to the way things were. i do know that the reason i am able to set the terms at work that i do is because i'm a woman and i hear it a lot. Female doctors demanding less hours and getting them. Female lawyers demanding to work from home after they have had children and getting it. i've even seen it in my own company with other women. They have a baby and never have to work in the office again. i think this is a good thing but i also hear men who aren't so old gripe about it.

I like this, it's modern-day feminism captured in a bubble. It's not about being equal any more, is it? It's about being superior, having your cake and eating it too. I'm not surprised the younger men complain about it, their colleagues are now being allowed to leave the office permanently simply for having children (and dollars to donuts says that the same privilege won't be extended when those men become fathers themselves).

 

[YourCaptor]

I think the education level things is not a good judgment of who is doing better.

Men and women are different. One of those differences is that men are more capable then women at a lot of manual labor. It is not necessary for a man to have an advanced degree and still get decent pay.

Something interesting though. Maybe we are passing through the point in our evolution when physical strength is less necessary to survive then brains.

 

[OldGuy1026]

Okay so my wife makes more money than me and I'm terrified than her. She's more DWC than any I know.

And we love each other.

 

[Fuckette]

I was at a friend's home earlier today and she nagged her husband to do something. When he walked off to do it she said to me (but loud enough for him to hear) "Sometimes it is like I have three kids, but he is the worst of all of them". Normally I'd let that pass since it really isn't my place to comment on her marriage but today I spoke up. I pointed out to her that her husband is a VERY good man and she is fortunate to have him. I went on to say that maybe she should let him know once in a while that she knows how wonderful he is an how much she appreciates him. Her response? "You know who has all of the power in the relationship right? The one that cares the least". I was truly at a loss for words.

I don't really expect comments on her remark..I just had to unload it. It has been on my mind since she said it.

I hate women like that!

 

[ecstaticsub]

I like this, it's modern-day feminism captured in a bubble. It's not about being equal any more, is it? It's about being superior, having your cake and eating it too. I'm not surprised the younger men complain about it, their colleagues are now being allowed to leave the office permanently simply for having children (and dollars to donuts says that the same privilege won't be extended when those men become fathers themselves).

I know women who expect special treatment in the workplace once they have children. I don't think it is right, and I know it is horrible for overall morale. Not just among the men but especially with the women who don't have children at home or have decided to be child-free.

The fact is that either the mom or dad/or both need to be able to have some job flexibility when it comes to childcare. Women have forced companies to become more flexible. I take my meal break 2 hrs after I start work just so I can pick up my daughter from afterschool activities and bring her home. I am back within the 30 minutes allotted to me. If a father needed to do the same thing I would be totally ok with it.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I know women who expect special treatment in the workplace once they have children. I don't think it is right, and I know it is horrible for overall morale. Not just among the men but especially with the women who don't have children at home or have decided to be child-free.

i disagree with this very strongly but then i don't think men and women are equal in their primitive state. Between menstruation and childbearing, reproduction is a burden women will always bear more heavily than men no matter how you slice it. The only way to level the playing field and give women a fair chance at reaching their intellectual\professional\economic potential is to make some accommodation.

The reason my company caved to my demand to work from home is there is no office where i live and i live here cuz this is where my husband works. Until men move and structure their lives around their wives careers with the same willingness\enthusiasm women do, accommodations will be made for women who make themselves essential in the workplace.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I think the education level things is not a good judgment of who is doing better.

Men and women are different. One of those differences is that men are more capable then women at a lot of manual labor. It is not necessary for a man to have an advanced degree and still get decent pay.

Something interesting though. Maybe we are passing through the point in our evolution when physical strength is less necessary to survive then brains.

In the western world this is most certainly the case. Manual laborers do not make nearly the same as professionals and the percentage of women in the professions is increasing rapidly. Science, engineering, technology, medicine, law, etc there is a big influx of women right now.

 

[Netzach]

Reading just the first page of that second article, you've chosen one where no mention of subjects or grades or anything but possession of the degree is made and another where the two people in question have quite clearly been cherry-picked for the role - the woman working her ass off, the man not bothered. That's a very fair descriptor of both genders </sarcasm>.



I like this, it's modern-day feminism captured in a bubble. It's not about being equal any more, is it? It's about being superior, having your cake and eating it too. I'm not surprised the younger men complain about it, their colleagues are now being allowed to leave the office permanently simply for having children (and dollars to donuts says that the same privilege won't be extended when those men become fathers themselves).

Actually, the guys were given and taking a lot of the same perks. I've known them to stay home, run home, go to games, drive to and from games, be there for whatever, come in late to drive 'em to school - whatever.

A lot of why I got out of corporate. I wasn't going to borrow someone's kid's pictures so I didn't have to pull the late nights while the volleyball games and sniffles were more important than anything I could possibly have going on. Like a life or laundry or something.

 

[Netzach]

Could be. Economically its probably good there's a level playing field and i am probably suffering from the same perception problems as the people who tell me my husband is a saint. i'm thinking men are lost because they no longer have a monopoly on everything...

On the other hand More U.S. Women Than Men Have College Degrees or this NY Times Article: At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust . So you can go ahead and be angry i guess.

Relationship wise i think both sexes are trying to figure out gender roles. i think we miss the sexual polarity.

Don't get me wrong i don't want to go back to the way things were. i do know that the reason i am able to set the terms at work that i do is because i'm a woman and i hear it a lot. Female doctors demanding less hours and getting them. Female lawyers demanding to work from home after they have had children and getting it. i've even seen it in my own company with other women. They have a baby and never have to work in the office again. i think this is a good thing but i also hear men who aren't so old gripe about it.

ETA: It occurred to me you might be riled by my intimation that women get more shit done. i'm only 36. The men i work with are in the same age bracket or younger and most of them have college degrees. Yes i'm only talking about corporate culture in one company but i work in IT and work with men in IT all over the country and i have seen first hand more women able to bridge the gap and facilitate communication between male departments to get shit done than men of my same generation. Its interesting to watch which projects take off and which ones lie fallow and fade away because its too hard to get group x to cooperate with group z. That said there does tend to be a sort of macho attitude amongst a lot of men in technology, a trend i think is changing among younger men. In technology i think you are probably going to notice a bigger cultural difference between a thirty something and a twenty something.

The firm my husband is in is a different industry, still male dominated for the moment but changing rapidly, and he does not see the same trend AS MUCH. There are still times he wants to pull his hair out because this guy can't cooperate and communicate with this guy so guess what happens. Nothing. This just reminded me there are two women in his office who have demanded to work from home and now do. i don't think there are any men who do.

I can think of more men who have done this in my microcosm than women, but this may reflect on my microcosm and my penchant for nerds - tech tends to be very open to this from anyone who wants to save them some real estate footage.

 

[Netzach]

i disagree with this very strongly but then i don't think men and women are equal in their primitive state. Between menstruation and childbearing, reproduction is a burden women will always bear more heavily than men no matter how you slice it. The only way to level the playing field and give women a fair chance at reaching their intellectual\professional\economic potential is to make some accommodation.

The reason my company caved to my demand to work from home is there is no office where i live and i live here cuz this is where my husband works. Until men move and structure their lives around their wives careers with the same willingness\enthusiasm women do, accommodations will be made for women who make themselves essential in the workplace.

But I think that's already happening, because I know so many couples where the driving force is who's making the money and we'll go where the person with the money/better insurance/ better gig needs to go.

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, the guys were given and taking a lot of the same perks. I've known them to stay home, run home, go to games, drive to and from games, be there for whatever, come in late to drive 'em to school - whatever.

A lot of why I got out of corporate. I wasn't going to borrow someone's kid's pictures so I didn't have to pull the late nights while the volleyball games and sniffles were more important than anything I could possibly have going on. Like a life or laundry or something.

God, yes. People who think the world revolves around them and their children and DAMN you and anything you might actually need to do make me stabby.

 

[ecstaticsub]

But I think that's already happening, because I know so many couples where the driving force is who's making the money and we'll go where the person with the money/better insurance/ better gig needs to go.

Exactly. My husband picked the area of the country we wanted to move to but we picked the specific town near my job because I was the first to get a stable long term position.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Actually, the guys were given and taking a lot of the same perks. I've known them to stay home, run home, go to games, drive to and from games, be there for whatever, come in late to drive 'em to school - whatever.

A lot of why I got out of corporate. I wasn't going to borrow someone's kid's pictures so I didn't have to pull the late nights while the volleyball games and sniffles were more important than anything I could possibly have going on. Like a life or laundry or something.

God, yes. People who think the world revolves around them and their children and DAMN you and anything you might actually need to do make me stabby.

I really do understand this. I was child-free for over 8 years. During those 8 years I volunteered to work Christmas or worked some of the awkward shifts to help those who were parents (men and women) Not because I felt they deserved it but it really didn't matter that much to me.

Now that I do have kids, shit happens. There are times when there are no other orthodontic appts other than during my workday. or whatever. Sometimes I have to leave early or come in late because of my kids. On the other hand if a co-worker needed to take some extra time at lunch to visit with their mother/brother etc or to take their elderly parent to the doctor then that was fine too. Or go to the orthodontist themselves. Life happens and the workplace needs to be flexible.

 

[ecstaticsub]

i disagree with this very strongly but then i don't think men and women are equal in their primitive state. Between menstruation and childbearing, reproduction is a burden women will always bear more heavily than men no matter how you slice it. The only way to level the playing field and give women a fair chance at reaching their intellectual\professional\economic potential is to make some accommodation.

The reason my company caved to my demand to work from home is there is no office where i live and i live here cuz this is where my husband works. Until men move and structure their lives around their wives careers with the same willingness\enthusiasm women do, accommodations will be made for women who make themselves essential in the workplace.

Menstruation is not a disability, neither is pregnancy. I was able to do just as good of a job while pregnant as I did not pregnant even with 9 months of morning sickness. I don't need special accomodations to reach my full potential.

In my case it would have been much more advantageous if my husband was given more accomodations when he was a brand new father thus able to help me out more, then for me to be treated as special.

 

[BiBunny]

I really do understand this. I was child-free for over 8 years. During those 8 years I volunteered to work Christmas or worked some of the awkward shifts to help those who wereparents (men and women) Not because I felt they deserved it but it really didn't matter that much to me.

Now when I do have kids, shit happens. There are times when there are no other orthodontic appts other than during my workday. or whatever. Sometimes I have to leave early or come in late because of my kids. On the other hand if a co-worker needed to take some extra time at lunch to visit with their mother/brother etc or to take their elderly parent to the docotr then that was fine too. Or go to the orthodontist themselves. Life happens and the workplace needs to be flexible.

If everyone would be so considerate, I think it'd go a long way toward easing resentment amongst people who work together.

 

[StrayKat]

Menstruation is not a disability, neither is pregnancy.

I used to work in textile factory where every woman had right to take a paid day off once a month. Male workers didnt have that privilege.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Menstruation is not a disability, neither is pregnancy. I was able to do just as good of a job while pregnant as I did not pregnant even with 9 months of morning sickness. I don't need special accomodations to reach my full potential.

So you're saying menstruation and pregnancy do not make life one bit more challenging than not experiencing those things?

i kinda think they do and i think they are universally experienced enough by women for it to be taken into consideration. Women opting out of menstruation and pregnancy is a very real trend in the western world. Europe is already at negative population growth. This could be a good thing for awhile but i'm not so sure about long term.

There are plenty of women who are choosing not to carry that burden, i mean challenge. Maybe it won't catch up with us and maybe it will. Perhaps i'm too influenced by Atwood's "A Handmaid's Tale".

i do tend to wonder what it means for the future when the folks most able to economically take care of and raise children stop having them because there are plenty of folks who don't have the economic means that are having plenty all over the world.

 

[StrayKat]

I was at a friend's home earlier today and she nagged her husband to do something. When he walked off to do it she said to me (but loud enough for him to hear) "Sometimes it is like I have three kids, but he is the worst of all of them". Normally I'd let that pass since it really isn't my place to comment on her marriage but today I spoke up. I pointed out to her that her husband is a VERY good man and she is fortunate to have him. I went on to say that maybe she should let him know once in a while that she knows how wonderful he is an how much she appreciates him. Her response? "You know who has all of the power in the relationship right? The one that cares the least". I was truly at a loss for words.

I feel sorry for your friend, she sounds like one very bitter woman.
Maybe she is not really happy about having all that "power" she thinks she has? Somehow I have a feeling she would be happier with less "power" but a husband that would know how to put her in her place.

 

[Netzach]

I really do understand this. I was child-free for over 8 years. During those 8 years I volunteered to work Christmas or worked some of the awkward shifts to help those who wereparents (men and women) Not because I felt they deserved it but it really didn't matter that much to me.

Now when I do have kids, shit happens. There are times when there are no other orthodontic appts other than during my workday. or whatever. Sometimes I have to leave early or come in late because of my kids. On the other hand if a co-worker needed to take some extra time at lunch to visit with their mother/brother etc or to take their elderly parent to the docotr then that was fine too. Or go to the orthodontist themselves. Life happens and the workplace needs to be flexible.

I recall well that there was a great amount of shit that went down when I was a child. It's true.

However, as you bring up, plenty of shit happens for people whether they have children or not. Work-life balance should not be at the cost of the childless, it should be part of how we view work as a culture.

 

[ataxia.girl]

The majority of women i work with have chosen not to have children. i'm sitting here counting them off and out of 15 so far i can only think of 2 that have children. Most of us are in our thirties.