Why I prefer Gay Clubs over Straight Ones

[Netzach]

Never put in the time and effort to say what I was trying to in a more diplomatic and articulate way.

I'm *still* not going to cry in my beer on behalf of how hard it must be to be a straight middle class white guy tonight.

 

[Bitchslapper]

I'm *still* not going to cry in my beer on behalf of how hard it must be to be a straight middle class white guy tonight.

I never asked you to. I'm saying you shouldn't pity yourself. Pity never did anyone any good.

 

[cantoelec]

I abide by my assertions.

Every culture is bigoted. Every human being tends to get tribal.

The difference in this case, is that when GLBT people get tribal the negative effect is more theoretical. Still no bats. When straight folks get tribal the bats seem to come out, things HAPPEN, the hatred gets acted on in scary and wide-ranging ways.

This can't be the first time you've ever encountered this school of thought. Some people see any negativity as inherently equally damaging, some others see negativity on the part of an oppressed group for its oppressor as logic.

Yeah, it's not fair, but the people on the shit end of the unfairness didn't CREATE it.

I agree with this statement almost completely. The problem I have is with the assumption of homogeneity (sorry, no pun intended!) among str8 folks. There are two things I am thinking of, both of which are ultimately practical political issues. First, there are some str8 people (and I hope I am one) who would stand between GLBT people and the bats wielded by assholes with whom they feel no connection. Those people are allies. Second, isn't the enemy the hammer of heteronormativity? Many many people (look around lit, for example!) who technically fit the descriptor "str8" are a serious challenge to the monogamous 2 kid vanilla etc. mandated sexuality. And if they had a community, and were out (and how can we be out without a community?) you can be sure the bats would come out, and have, particularly against women. These too are natural allies for confronting the forces of heteronormative evil out there. Dividing the world into all "us" GLBT folk, and "them" all str8 folk, is important for many purposes, not least the survival of a GLBT community. But in addition to ignoring the many areas of grey sexuality that dividing line obliterates, it also prevents us from building a stronger movement against the wielders of bats and other tools of oppression.

 

[Bitchslapper]

I'm glad to know there's at least one other person out there that doesn't see everything in black & white, yes or no, "us" against "them" terms.

 

[cantoelec]

Yeah, but sweetie, I disagree with *everything* you've said on this thread! And agree with Netzach wholeheartedly.

I am all for defining us against them the enemy. We just need to make sure we don't close our eyes to friends.

 

[Bitchslapper]

Well, given the tone of your post I was under the impression you were not a hypocritical heterophobe who thinks gays are automatically morally superior to straights. My mistake, sweet-cheeks.

 

[Never]

Bitchslapper:
"I'm glad to know there's at least one other person out there that doesn't see everything in black & white, yes or no, "us" against "them" terms."

It's nice to know that when I take the time to address a complex issue my post can be swept away in a blanket statement because I dare to disagree with someone. Oh, and I'm a 'hypocritical heterophobe' now too. Lovely. You really are just trolling the fags now, you know.

 

[Elmer Keith]

Bitcheslapper, "Yadda, yadda, yimmer, yammer, zumma zumma zumma".

Well said, Sport.

 

[Bitchslapper]

Bitchslapper:
"I'm glad to know there's at least one other person out there that doesn't see everything in black & white, yes or no, "us" against "them" terms."

It's nice to know that when I take the time to address a complex issue my post can be swept away in a blanket statement because I dare to disagree with someone. Oh, and I'm a 'hypocritical heterophobe' now too. Lovely. You really are just trolling the fags now, you know.

You got something against gays too?

 

[Netzach]

double post

 

[Netzach]

Never, it wasn't totally lost.

cantoelec, your points are appreciated. I personally can't view non-heteronormative people who happen to have sex with opposite sex people in transgressive ways as straight. They may not be homosexual or bisexual, but they are swimming against the tide, and I'm all for it.

Even as someone who has an opposite sex partner, it's really easy for me to distance myself from the very REAL characteristics of the bar scene described. I have no interest in pointing out an attack, because I don' feel like I see myself in this seriously heteronormative way, opposite-sex partner or no.

 

[CharleyH]

I went to straight club last night for the first time in years...generally I prefer alternative and gay clubs, but my friend wanted to go, and it was only a 5 dollar cover, so I went.

LOL...straight people are funny...

1. The men for the most part, couldn't dance...and rubbing your crotch against a girls ass doesn't count.

2. There was a girl who was trying to do stripper type dancing against the pole on the side of the room.

3. The clothes aren't as good...there was much questionable fashion that my gay boyfriends wouldn't have allowed me out of the house in (example, two girls with so much lace on their shirts that my friend and I named them the lingerie twins)

As I sat on the side of the dance floor, sipping my hard lemonade and observing, I was terribly amused.

But I realize how little I've been missing.

Back to the gay/alterna scene for me

Straight clubs are fun when you are with your girlfriend and another gorgeous chick then having gorgeous chick lean seductively against the bar, under the light, and me leaning into her, grabbing her ass, her mouth devouring my lips, girlfriend joining in . . .

All the disbelief, and all the really pissed off straight girls, and a few jealous ones. That's when straight clubs are fun.

Otherwise, they're good for bands.

 

[Bitchslapper]

Never, it wasn't totally lost.

cantoelec, your points are appreciated. I personally can't view non-heteronormative people who happen to have sex with opposite sex people in transgressive ways as straight. They may not be homosexual or bisexual, but they are swimming against the tide, and I'm all for it.

Even as someone who has an opposite sex partner, it's really easy for me to distance myself from the very REAL characteristics of the bar scene described. I have no interest in pointing out an attack, because I don' feel like I see myself in this seriously heteronormative way, opposite-sex partner or no.

I don't know if you're refering to me with that last part, but I'm far from heterosexual.

And I'd like anyone to give a definition of "heteronormative" that doesn't sound like a nice way of saying "there's something wrong with you because you're straight," if that's even possible.

 

[Netzach]

Actually, I'm not referring to you. Would you like me to?

You know, there is something wrong with being straight. There's something wrong with being straight when it means you just can't imagine that someone else might not be, or might not WANT to be. There's something wrong with being straight when you teach girls to become timid pathetic and afraid of their bodies before they can even grow up. There's something wrong with being straight when you teach boys that they should want to kill themselves rather than take it up the ass. There's something wrong with being straight when you think that the world might end if not everyone else is. There's a lot wrong with being straight.

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with wanting to love and/or fuck someone of the opposite sex, or any sex. There's nothing wrong with not being homosexual bisexual or queer.

If you aren't part of the problem you shouldn't feel a pressing urge to defend yourself or whine about generalizations that DON'T PERTAIN TO YOU.

 

[Bitchslapper]

Actually, I'm not referring to you. Would you like me to?

You know, there is something wrong with being straight. There's something wrong with being straight when it means you just can't imagine that someone else might not be, or might not WANT to be. There's something wrong with being straight when you teach girls to become timid pathetic and afraid of their bodies before they can even grow up. There's something wrong with being straight when you teach boys that they should want to kill themselves rather than take it up the ass. There's something wrong with being straight when you think that the world might end if not everyone else is. There's a lot wrong with being straight.

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with wanting to love and/or fuck someone of the opposite sex, or any sex. There's nothing wrong with not being homosexual bisexual or queer.

If you aren't part of the problem you shouldn't feel a pressing urge to defend yourself or whine about generalizations that DON'T PERTAIN TO YOU.

Yeah, but you see, the generalizatiopns do pertain to me, because I'm not gay. See, that's what a generalization is, a judgement of an entire group of people.

Now I don't know about anyone else who's not gay, but ai haven't done any of that stuff you mention and I'm opposed to it just as much as you are, but on a purely ethical basis. I object to the negative influence on someone's sexuality, I don't object to it just because I'm bi and it's a "gay issue."

I am very amused though that you claim on the one hand that heterosexuality is wrong (I also noticed that you kept saying "you" as though I'm heterosexual, even though I've said I'm not at least once in this thread), but on the other hand you say that there's nothing wrong with not being homosexual or bisexual. What's the difference? Are you claming that somehow it's heterocentric to even use the word heterosexual or what?

And of course, you completely sidestep the issue that there might be something wrong with bigotry against straight people. What will it take, gays beating straight people just because of thier sexuality or as some sort of revenge? Well, guess what, it's already here. Saying that there's no such thing as reverse-racism or heterophobia is obviously bullshit and is a form of prejudice in itself. Anyone can hate no matter what thier ethnicity or sexual orientation is.

 

[Netzach]

I'm going to explain this one more time.

"You" is the hyperbolic generic "you meaning "one" in this case. If you want to take it personally, go ahead, but that's not my intent.

I never said heterosexuality is wrong. I said a certain kind of being straight is wrong. My entire point is that I don't equate the idea of "straight" (the very TERM relies on the ephitet "bent" for its meaning, hello) automatically with heterosexuality or opposite sex luv, fucking, or flutters. I do equate it, in many (but not all) instances, with a sexual hegemony that hasn't a fucking clue or shit for sexual diversity.

As an example, Polite S. identifies as "straight." I know for a fact that she's a fantastic ally, a good egg, and she probably would chuckle at the long lost joke theme of this thread rather than going "oh no, the queer people are insulting the sanctity of the straight clip joint!" Of course I run the risk of speaking for someone I don't know well, but I get the vibe off her that I get off my straight friends, my straight male EX, even. Who would laugh.

Anyone can hate whatever their social position. Quite true. And hate isn't productive right, nice, or polite. But when it's the end result of being repeatedly fucked over, it's called necessary caution. It's called surviving. Telling jokes about your oppressors is a pasttime as old as the hills. If they don't like it, they can always fire you or burn down your house. You, on the other hand, haven't much recourse outside of some gallows humor.

 

[Angel]

You got something against gays too?

That's fucking hilarious.

 

[CharleyH]

WOW - this got into an intriguing debate that I'll stay out of . . .

Though I must say Netzach has raised some very good points, and the first sentance of the last post says everything. LOL.

 

[cantoelec]

I'm going to explain this one more time.

I never said heterosexuality is wrong. I said a certain kind of being straight is wrong. My entire point is that I don't equate the idea of "straight" (the very TERM relies on the ephitet "bent" for its meaning, hello) automatically with heterosexuality or opposite sex luv, fucking, or flutters. I do equate it, in many (but not all) instances, with a sexual hegemony that hasn't a fucking clue or shit for sexual diversity.

As an example, Polite S. identifies as "straight." I know for a fact that she's a fantastic ally, a good egg, and she probably would chuckle at the long lost joke theme of this thread rather than going "oh no, the queer people are insulting the sanctity of the straight clip joint!" Of course I run the risk of speaking for someone I don't know well, but I get the vibe off her that I get off my straight friends, my straight male EX, even. Who would laugh.

Anyone can hate whatever their social position. Quite true. And hate isn't productive right, nice, or polite. But when it's the end result of being repeatedly fucked over, it's called necessary caution. It's called surviving. Telling jokes about your oppressors is a pasttime as old as the hills. If they don't like it, they can always fire you or burn down your house. You, on the other hand, haven't much recourse outside of some gallows humor.

You go Netzach. Proud to be a bent het here, and take every opp to insult the str8 clip joint too. You know, straight people *are* funny : )!

 

[Bitchslapper]

I'm going to explain this one more time.

"You" is the hyperbolic generic "you meaning "one" in this case. If you want to take it personally, go ahead, but that's not my intent.

I never said heterosexuality is wrong. I said a certain kind of being straight is wrong. My entire point is that I don't equate the idea of "straight" (the very TERM relies on the ephitet "bent" for its meaning, hello) automatically with heterosexuality or opposite sex luv, fucking, or flutters. I do equate it, in many (but not all) instances, with a sexual hegemony that hasn't a fucking clue or shit for sexual diversity.

As an example, Polite S. identifies as "straight." I know for a fact that she's a fantastic ally, a good egg, and she probably would chuckle at the long lost joke theme of this thread rather than going "oh no, the queer people are insulting the sanctity of the straight clip joint!" Of course I run the risk of speaking for someone I don't know well, but I get the vibe off her that I get off my straight friends, my straight male EX, even. Who would laugh.

Anyone can hate whatever their social position. Quite true. And hate isn't productive right, nice, or polite. But when it's the end result of being repeatedly fucked over, it's called necessary caution. It's called surviving. Telling jokes about your oppressors is a pasttime as old as the hills. If they don't like it, they can always fire you or burn down your house. You, on the other hand, haven't much recourse outside of some gallows humor.

Don't backpedal so fast, you'll sprain something.

And I never said anything about the "sacntity of the straight clip joint." I don't even know what a clip joint is, but I've never been to a bar anyway. So I certainly wasn't defending "straight" bars.

And now you're attacking my choice of words? I wasn't even the first person to use the word "straight," the thread orginator was. Besides, most of the time I use the terms homosexual and heterosexual anyway.

 

[Bitchslapper]

That's fucking hilarious.

I thought so myself. Glad you like it.

 

[thickspear]

it...

 

[Bitchslapper]

if any two of us are gathered together he is there...

if there is a good conversation he is there

the problem is that he's just a toxic soul that enjoys being who he is..and really enjoys being there...

but i have a better plan..

where ever he is...i go somewhere else

if i come across anything he has written i just skip over it...

some people just love to screw with people...i say screw him by ignoring him

He is a she, I believe. And she makes a good argument.

In any case, those aren't very nice things to say and are rather contradictory, unless you're refering to yourself, because much of what you say can be applied to the post itself.