Why People Should Read

[SimonDoom]

This isn't even about the same thing.

This is about finding ways to mine it, strip it and defile it the same way they have Earth. They weren't satisfied in destroying this planet.

What we need is a Klaatu to put a stop to our insanity.

You can't destroy the moon. The moon is lifeless. It is not an ecosystem. It cannot possibly be defiled. It is a resource waiting to be exploited . . . and it SHOULD be exploited. There is no downside to exploiting it. To think of the moon as something pure that we should leave as is . . . that's just pure silliness.

This attitude, to me, is just Luddism. I say let's go, go, go. Others worry about disturbing the lunar dust. Oh my goodness. Some careless human left a footprint on its surface. This will bother . . . whom exactly? The gods? Apollo? Based on the stories I've read, I'd say his attention is elsewhere.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

One justification I can think of for not caring too much about it is that it's kinda stretch to call Artemis II a Moon mission. Yes, they're going in this direction, but they'll neither land on or orbit it, merely use it for gravity assist to return back to Earth. It's basically Apollo 13 sans the exploding oxygen tank (or Tom Hanks), except not even that since they'll pass the Moon away within many thousands kilometers rather than a bit over a hundred.

My understanding of this mission is that it's mostly for closely evaluating the impact of deep space travel on human body, since we haven't done that since the 70s and we now have rather better technology to do it. That's in addition to the more overrarching goal of routinizing the whole Earth-Moon travel thing and launching things beyond LEO.

Well, Apollo 8 and 10 did much the same thing as the current Artemis mission, circle the moon without landing.

It's my understanding that the present mission (Artemis II) is primarily intended to test systems such as life-support, manual flight controls, etc. The only way to be sure they work is to actually use them.

I remember the Mercury programme in the 60s. While it was apparently barely mentioned behind the Iron Curtain, out in the free world it was as exciting as anything I can remember in my whole life. Schoolchildren were taken from class to sit on the floor in school gyms with the (one) school television (B&W, of course) to watch the Mercury launches, hundreds of children chanting the launch count-down with the voice from Mission Control. It was an inspiring time, a time of hope, a time one could believe that absolutely anything was possible.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Technically, Apollo never left Earth orbit and neither has Artemis. Apollo orbited the moon or landed on it (Artemis isn't even doing that, just passing it), but that's within Earth orbit. Luna orbits Earth.

What they left was low Earth orbit. Nobody has passed the Clarke orbits for decades.

The Apollo lunar missions went into lunar orbit, where the moon's gravitational influence was greater than Earth's, thus no longer orbiting Earth.

Sure, the Moon orbits Earth, but when you've got two planetary bodies, it's the one you're going around that counts. Artemis 2 and Apollo 13 were/are both lunar sling-shots, neither orbiting the moon.

Apollo 10 - 17 (minus 13) had to fire their rocket engines to escape their lunar orbits. If they didn't do that, they'd still potentially be up there, going around the moon.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It was an inspiring time, a time of hope, a time one could believe that absolutely anything was possible.

The moon stuff in Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey was derived from NASA thinking in 1965 - 66 as to what might be achievable in 35 years' time.

He employed two NASA consultants during filming, and the lunar spacecraft and the orbiting space station were based on credible science at the time. The Discovery and HAL were more science-fiction, for sure.

 

[TheLobster]

(I thought the 'this is a rerun' was funny. I predict my dad will make exactly the same joke.)

Totally. In fact, it's not just a rerun: it's a woke remake featuring DEI crew of a woman, a black guy, and even — gasp! — a Canadian!

And it's still pretty damn cool.

 

[TheLobster]

Technically, Apollo never left Earth orbit and neither has Artemis. Apollo orbited the moon or landed on it (Artemis isn't even doing that, just passing it), but that's within Earth orbit. Luna orbits Earth.

What they left was low Earth orbit. Nobody has passed the Clarke orbits for decades.

This is complete nonsense. Orbits aren't locations, they are trajectories defined by the parameters of motion of the two bodies involved. If I magically transported you to 300 km above ground, the altitude of LEO, you'd still fall down just the same.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

You can't destroy the moon. The moon is lifeless. It is not an ecosystem. It cannot possibly be defiled. It is a resource waiting to be exploited . . . and it SHOULD be exploited. There is no downside to exploiting it. To think of the moon as something pure that we should leave as is . . . that's just pure silliness.

This attitude, to me, is just Luddism. I say let's go, go, go. Others worry about disturbing the lunar dust. Oh my goodness. Some careless human left a footprint on its surface. This will bother . . . whom exactly? The gods? Apollo? Based on the stories I've read, I'd say his attention is elsewhere.

Up to a point. If the moon exploded, that would be the end of tides on Earth. No tides, no tidal ecosystems, knock-on effects on every other ecosystem that would knock current climate change into a cocked hat.

And countries fighting over who gets mining rights on different parts of the moon could be as nasty as the colonialism of the 1800s and early 1900s, with extra slave labour (if you can't get an exit flight from the moon, you're really stuffed).

But otherwise, yes, humanity should use the moon for humanity. And in due course, have robots go to Mars and build a nice base for humans to be able to populate.

 

[SimonDoom]

And in due course, have robots go to Mars and build a nice base for humans to be able to populate.

With taco stands.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It's funny how so many people remember Apollo 11 landing on the moon, but none of them remember that Apollo 8 and Apollo 10 orbited it first.

 

[MelissaBaby]

What I get tired of it hype and hysteria over something that isn't new and original.


The Ron Popeil approach. 'This is the super duper greatest thing what's ever dun happin't.'


Well, no, it isn't as has been shown.

While I don't agree with you on the particular, I see some validity to your larger point. For example, there have been 60 Super Bowls. Certainly, that must be enough.

 

[TheLobster]

It's funny how so many people remember Apollo 11 landing on the moon, but none of them remember that Apollo 8 and Apollo 10 orbited it first.

Apollo 8 to 10 were pretty much increasingly elaborate and complete dress rehearsals for Apollo 11. It makes sense that we only remember the actual opening of the show.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It's funny how so many people remember Apollo 11 landing on the moon, but none of them remember that Apollo 8 and Apollo 10 orbited it first.

They probably did (and spoke of it more) before Apollo 11 happened. Apollo 8 is still remembered for the Earthrise photo - or maybe I should say 'learned about', give I don't actually remember any of Apollo at all.

But any cool achievement gets forgotten once it's eclipsed. Who remembers the fastest man on the planet before Usain Bolt? Unless you're the first to do something, when no-one remembers the next.

 

[SimonDoom]

While I don't agree with you on the particular, I see some validity to your larger point. For example, there have been 60 Super Bowls. Certainly, that must be enough.

We can never have enough Super Bowls.

OK, OK, we don't need any more Super Bowls with the New England Patriots. But aside from that, more Super Bowls are a good thing.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

With taco stands.

Bit Ameri-centric.

I think the big contest will have to be which country can create robot fast food joints to be worthy of being uplifted to become one of the first outlets on Mars, not to mention the contract for in-flight catering.

Imagine the World Robot Cook-Off Challenge - a holographic Anthony Bourdain and various people taste-test the offerings from various machine-produced food stalls. Obviously I'll be hoping for Bossman's Robo Kebab and Beep Beep Falafel to be up there, along with a breakfast naan stall, a bao bun place and HAL's pie shop.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Apollo 8 to 10 were pretty much increasingly elaborate and complete dress rehearsals for Apollo 11. It makes sense that we only remember the actual opening of the show.

Agreed, but the point tis not how well they are remembered, it is how mush interest was there in them at the time.

 

[SimonDoom]

Bit Ameri-centric.

I think the big contest will have to be which country can create robot fast food joints to be worthy of being uplifted to become one of the first outlets on Mars, not to mention the contract for in-flight catering.

Imagine the World Robot Cook-Off Challenge - a holographic Anthony Bourdain and various people taste-test the offerings from various machine-produced food stalls. Obviously I'll be hoping for Bossman's Robo Kebab and Beep Beep Falafel to be up there, along with a breakfast naan stall, a bao bun place and HAL's pie shop.

I can't wait for the first international food court on the moon, with the first competitive cook-off. Bring on the tacos, bao buns, and kebab.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

And there was no Apollo 2 or 3.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Up to a point. If the moon exploded, that would be the end of tides on Earth. No tides, no tidal ecosystems, knock-on effects on every other ecosystem that would knock current climate change into a cocked hat.

Make it so.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It's funny how so many people remember Apollo 11 landing on the moon, but none of them remember that Apollo 8 and Apollo 10 orbited it first.

Apollo 8's mission patch is super cool.

 

[StillStunned]

I can't wait for the first international food court on the moon, with the first competitive cook-off. Bring on the tacos, bao buns, and kebab.

I'd like to see a souffle cooked on the moon.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

This is complete nonsense. Orbits aren't locations, they are trajectories defined by the parameters of motion of the two bodies involved. If I magically transported you to 300 km above ground, the altitude of LEO, you'd still fall down just the same.

What does that have to do with anything? The Apollo and Artemis capsules were always in orbit around Earth, by which I mean that without some sort of acceleration they would take closed paths around it, not recede indefinitely. This is as opposed to, say, the Voyager spacecraft, now in interstellar space.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Apollo 10 - 17 (minus 13) had to fire their rocket engines to escape their lunar orbits. If they didn't do that, they'd still potentially be up there, going around the moon.

Lunar orbits are unstable and they'd almost certainly have impacted by now, but that's just me being very technical.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Up to a point. If the moon exploded, that would be the end of tides on Earth. No tides, no tidal ecosystems, knock-on effects on every other ecosystem that would knock current climate change into a cocked hat.

And countries fighting over who gets mining rights on different parts of the moon could be as nasty as the colonialism of the 1800s and early 1900s, with extra slave labour (if you can't get an exit flight from the moon, you're really stuffed).

But otherwise, yes, humanity should use the moon for humanity. And in due course, have robots go to Mars and build a nice base for humans to be able to populate.

In Neal Stephenson's Seveneves, the moon, for reasons unknown, breaks into seven pieces. As the orbit the earth, they collide with one another and continue to break down into smaller parts, until they disintegrate into millions of fragments too small to escape Earth's gravity well. As they descend into the atmosphere, the heat of their entry raises it by thousands of degrees, (possibly) incinerating all life on the planet.

 

[sijopunk]

In Neal Stephenson's Seveneves, the moon, for reasons unknown, breaks into seven pieces. As the orbit the earth, they collide with one another and continue to break down into smaller parts, until they disintegrate into millions of fragments too small to escape Earth's gravity well. As they descend into the atmosphere, the heat of their entry raises it by thousands of degrees, (possibly) incinerating all life on the planet.

Was just about to post something about this book. You are my hero, @MelissaBaby !!

I loved this one so much. Neal Stephenson!

 

[MelissaBaby]

Was just about to post something about this book. You are my hero, @MelissaBaby !!

I loved this one so much. Neal Stephenson!

Thanks! Eleven years later, still waiting for the sequel.