Words about Words

[SimonDoom]

Funny thing is that I write carefully (who vs whom, I vs me, etc) and try to make sure the grammar and stylistics are spot on.

Then I open my mouth and that spoken grammar is completely different. I was sat in the pub the other day....

This is very common. Probably most of us do this to some extent. I would wager that most people would say, in a friendly conversation, "Who am I speaking to?" rather than "To whom am I speaking?" Part of the reason, I think, is that when speaking our words come out before we've fully worked out how we're going to end the sentence. Plus, "who" is perfectly OK when it's used as a predicate nominative, such as "Who is that?" It's not correct to say "Whom is that?" So it's normal to start the sentence with "who" and just sort of work it out from there. And, also, "whom" sounds a little fussy and formal to many ears. I think some people would think they might sound a bit "high and mighty" if they used it in casual conversation.

I have a genius friend who often uses the objective case when he should use the subjective case, somewhat like the example Bramblethorn gave. He'll say, "Him and I went hiking." It startles me to hear that from somebody so intelligent. But there it is.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Whom was it that killed that person is grammatically correct, but Who Done It, sounds better.

 

[AG31]

Whom was it that killed that person is grammatically correct, but Who Done It, sounds better.

In what way is "whom was it that killed" grammatically correct? Doesn't the who/whom have to be an object?

 

[StillStunned]

Whom Who was it that killed that person is grammatically correct, but Who Done It, sounds better.

Tssk!

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm going by what I read and may have written it wrong. But who done it, often written 'whodunitt,' hasn't ever been correct, and yet it is a genre.

In what way is "whom was it that killed" grammatically correct? Doesn't the who/whom have to be an object?

Tssk!

 

[AG31]

I'm going by what I read and may have written it wrong. But who done it, often written 'whodunitt,' hasn't ever been correct, and yet it is a genre.

The thing that's wrong is "done." It should be "did" to be correct. But who cares, right?

 

[MillieDynamite]

From Merriam-Webster online---

In 1930, Donald Gordon, a book reviewer for News of Books, needed to come up with something to say about a rather unremarkable mystery novel called Half-Mast Murder. "A satisfactory whodunit," he wrote. The relatively new term (introduced only a year earlier) played fast and loose with spelling and grammar, but whodunit caught on anyway. Other writers tried respelling it who-done-it, and one even insisted on using whodidit, but those sanitized versions lacked the punch of the original and fell by the wayside. Whodunit became so popular that by 1939 at least one language pundit had declared it "already heavily overworked" and predicted it would "soon be dumped into the taboo bin." History has proven that prophecy false, and whodunit is still going strong.

 

[Britva415]

the stilted "he and I will go to the store."

Does that honestly sound stilted?

Not to me it don't.

 

[Britva415]

"Who am I speaking to?" rather than "To whom am I speaking?"

I for one don't put "I" in there at all.

"Who is speaking, please?"

 

[Britva415]

Anyone who fakes ambiguity by saying "you are" is a douchebag

 

[Britva415]

"One up on whom will get hung", to paraphrase Churchill.

 

[AG31]

Does that honestly sound stilted?

Not to me it don't.

Yep. Stilted.

 

[SimonDoom]

Does that honestly sound stilted?

I agree. That doesn't sound stilted to me. I talk that way. That's just good English.

 

[TheLobster]

I for one don't put "I" in there at all.

"Who is speaking, please?"

“Who’s this?”

Or, if you are especially parsimonious with words,

“What?!”

 

[StillStunned]

Or, if you are especially parsimonious with words,

“What?!”

Or: "Yellow!"

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have a genius friend who often uses the objective case when he should use the subjective case, somewhat like the example Bramblethorn gave. He'll say, "Him and I went hiking." It startles me to hear that from somebody so intelligent. But there it is.

Obviously that should be "Him and me went hiking".

 

[XerXesXu]

English is now an analytic language, many inflected forms in pronouns and verbs are, functionally, reduced to synonyms, and used as such. Differences in usage are customary and social, not grammatical.

In the words of the classic poem:

'Be I from Berkshire, be I buggery, I comes up from Wareham,
I knows a girl with calico drawers 'n I knows 'ow to tear 'em'

Who'd recite such a poem? Only a knowledge of social class'll enable you to answer that question.