"Would Irish-Americans mind...?"

[shadowsource]

None so far:

The problems in Israel are beyond belief, they must learn to live together, there is no alternative but that.
How many Bin Laden's will come out of that mess?

But it's well worth wondering how many will emerge if we don't demand that the settlers be removed back to Israel and Brooklyn

 

[taffy5]

Yes, you are probably right, but I think that each side should take a step back, and give each other a little breathing space. They need it!!

 

[pabloback]

several points here
1. most americans detest the idea that money raised in the u.s goes to a terrorist group
2. many want to turn their backs and ignore the fact that it goes on
3. of the minority that donate to these fundraising groups, most kid themselves that it is going to a worty cause such as starving orphans [believe me not many of them actually exist]
4. of the minority that do know where the money goes they delude themselves that it is in the romantic notion of a "united ireland"
5. if north and south are joined again the prodestant majority then become the minority and the violence starts all over again
killer muffin this time i think your comments are misguided and you are out of order

 

[naudiz]

2. many want to turn their backs and ignore the fact that it goes on

And those of us who have busted our behinds researching all night in order to form an informed opinion don't count.

Seriously, people. You're going to see what you want to see, and it gets pointless trying to point out anything else. Do you want me to not care? Then keep treating me like I don't.

We care, okay? But when I read stuff like America has this image problem where they look like they only care about themselves - in a thread that is more or less breaking down into: yes, yes, pity about those towers - now let's talk about our problem...

Forget it. I'm going to go play the Sims. Wake me up when we're supporting each other in this terrible time of crisis again, or has that already fallen by the wayside? It was nice while it lasted.

 

[shadowsource]

Very crappy reasoning, pablo -

several points here
1. most americans detest the idea that money raised in the u.s goes to a terrorist group
2. many want to turn their backs and ignore the fact that it goes on
3. of the minority that donate to these fundraising groups, most kid themselves that it is going to a worty cause such as starving orphans [believe me not many of them actually exist]
4. of the minority that do know where the money goes they delude themselves that it is in the romantic notion of a "united ireland"
5. if north and south are joined again the prodestant majority then become the minority and the violence starts all over again
killer muffin this time i think your comments are misguided and you are out of order

1) Most Americans don't care, but they do know that people with Irish blood are generally clever, reliable people, so your racist tenets do not register in the US.
2) The ones that understand tend to think that the Brits have fucked up very badly in Ulster.
3) The minority want to help the side they relate to; they can say they think whatever they want, but they know what went on in Long Kesh.
4) No one gives a fuck about a "united ireland." You're all in the EU anyway. The Republic doesn't want to take over the north; they have their own fish to fry, as in Economic Development.
5) No one in the south wants to oppress any protestants. The Protestants in the Republic are all quite happy. Any violence would come from the Orangemen, as you well know.

Lay off Killer, who has tried to be patient with you. She always thinks for herself, and condescending to her is a big mistake.

Get used to the idea that the Catholics up North will never play the Queen's doormat again, will never serve as the scapegoat proxies for all the Irish that got away. You guys want to push this issue off the table again? You know what will happen. That's why no one sympathizes with you. Tell Bush you've changed your minds if that's too much to swallow.

 

[Myrrdin]

Thus spake the Ayatollah Shadowsource. In defence of a "holy war".

 

[shadowsource]

Yea, it is true -

My post was very heavy-handed, for which I apologize, as I like you guys. But you must try to imagine how condescending you can be with regards to your problems in Ulster. I'm quite certain that I've visited the Emerald Isle more than any of you. I've been up North, too. And I've read a lot about the history. I am a happily fallen Catholic of about 2% Irish extraction, and I have many criticisms of the Republic, for sure. I've never given a penny to the IRA or to any front, but I've marched for them out of sincere and informed conviction. Britain's behavior in the North has been shameful indeed for many centuries, up to and including the murder of those nationalist lawyers in recent years. I think the Brits have to keep bending, which means reforming the RUC. If the IRA still won't decomission after the RUC is effectively rendered a polyreligious organization, I don't have any further ideas. But if you were IRA, you'd be loathe to trust the UK, or even the Republic (remember the 20s?). They have kept to the peace, even under great provocation. If you want peace, you have to deal with them. And Trimble probably can't deliver.

I think the whole peace deal is going down the tubes and I promise I will cry if and when that happens. A fabulous opportunity to end one of the oldest continuing struggles on earth will have been lost, for who knows how long.

 

[shadowsource]

My secret desire -

is to piss you all off so much that you pressure Blair to stop letting the US use those dishes for Echelon to spy on Europe and for the alleged missile defense to become an ineffectiv reality. So fuck you all, bowler-besotted bumfux. Hehehehhehehehe.

 

[Styphon]

Originally posted by KillerMuffin
I give the impression that I don't care about British citizens dying in terrorist attacks, I can see that, it's not true, but I can see it. I'm a reactionary at times. Styphon gives the impression that he not only doesn't care about what's recently happenend, but that he thinks we may have deserved it a little because we've, not one or two people, but the nation as a whole, condone IRA terrorism and that we finance it.
Actually, to make things as crystal clear as I can to you, I care VERY much about what happened, and have made several other posts on that subject - find them if you can be bothered. I care very much because 300 British people were killed in the atrocity as well as the thousands of Americans. I personally hope that justice is done, and I'm pleased that Britain is to join the efforts to apply it.

Yes, you give the impression you don't care about British loss of life, and I appreciate you when you say you can see that. I am also mature enough to believe you when you say the impression you give is not true. If I myself have made the same impression, please accept my sincere apologies.

The posting I made from The Daily Mail was to illustrate feelings in the press that have added yet another facet to the complex situation here. I think to some degree, the cynicism felt in some of the press over the sabre-rattling of Bush is fuelled by NATO operations in MAcedonia, as I mentioned before. I would doubt whether Macedonia got more than a footnote in your news, but the UK is at the front end, collecting weapons from rebels in what is still a war zone. Excuse me quoting this bit again...

the Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, July 14, 2001; Page A14 ...

...Britain would lead the force, which is meant to make each side of the conflict in Macedonia confident that terms of a peace settlement would be respected by the other. U.S. troops would provide only logistical support and other back-up help, reflecting reluctance in the Bush administration to assume a more direct U.S. role in the Balkans.

Britain, whose government has been particularly sensitive to fears that full-scale war in Macedonia could spread elsewhere, plans to provide about one-third of the troops. Italy, France and Greece would be main contributors.

..**** NATO officials have grown resigned to U.S. reluctance to take a full role. According to NATO sources, Secretary General George Robertson chose not to make an issue of it during a recent visit to Washington.

Now, say the cynics, Bush wants the world to unite with America to crack down on terrorism.

Fuck Styphon and the head cheese he rode in on.
You really are a fiery debator, aren't you?

So, I hope I've made it clear that I abhor the whole Trade Center incident, and I mourn the largest loss of life ever in a terrorist attack. The loss of British life is the largest WE have ever suffered in a terrorist attack, just as it is for the Americans.

Styphon

 

[*Lazer*]

This makes me so very sad

I think Killer Muffin was not giving things her usual more objective appraisal before replying. Styphon may have worded things akwardly but it didn't warrent a FUCK YOU. If we cannot answer honest questions about our apparent inconsistancies in foreign policy it behooves Bush to get his ducks in a row before shooting. Styphon raised a valid point and he did not negate the loss of lives or the horror of last tuesday. He was I believe trying to relate and question something he did not understand about the mindset of people in this country who do support a terroist group.

What happened to our nation is not unique and we need to remember that fact. Throughout the world people die victims to the deluded dreams and aspirations of fanatics. Please can we not ask for a clarification before we explode into anger it is a time to come together not rake each other raw.

 

[Guest]

This may be my simple thinking or sole perception, but I don't think anyone would argue that there is senseless killing, around the world, day to day. I, also, would argue that most folks are quite empathetic to the grive and struggles of such victims. Right now, wounds are still quite raw. Sound bytes and brief shots on the news bring little reality to those oceans apart from the terror. I have been guilty of watching the 6 o'clock news and shuddering at the scenes of war and murder in other parts of the world, then moving about with my life with no more thought.
Does it make me a bad person? I hope not. It's surreal until it happens to you. It has now happened to me. So, I have a unique perspective. And, it hurts when opinions are randomly tossed about and I have nothing to spout back. We are doing the best we can. Our government is doing the best they can. We are humans and we will commit mistakes. Give us a break. This is all new. I'm sorry if your people have endured such tragedies continuously. I'm sorry if you feel we have not done enough. But, please keep in mind noone is without fault. Bring up the IRA, I'll hang my head in shame that fellow countrymen have supported such horrific goals. Unfortunately, in my simple mind, those fights are civil wars. We had ours and noone came to our rescue. There are just fights that need to be settled within the boundaries of the commonfolk that bleed.
I'm scared to post this- I hope I'm not flamed. I care. Please, believe I do. I admit oversensitivity and wish all well.