Writerly: Touchy Subjects

[emap]

You know Ogg alot of that probably has to do with your a babysitter, nobody takes a babysitter seriously.

I am pretty sure the reactions you garner has a whole heck of alot to do with what kind of a story it is. I did a non consent story about a woman who is more or less raped into a slave, the responses I got were two saying everyone gets AIDS and dies, and one woman who really loved the story. I admit it had alot of nice parts for me as well, though I really did not expect to be hearing about how everyone got AIDS and died being the worst comment I got.

I'm not sure if that means that the non consent readers are serial rapists or just don't care what happens so long as she enjoys it in some way.

 

[oggbashan]

You know Ogg alot of that probably has to do with your a babysitter, nobody takes a babysitter seriously.

I am pretty sure the reactions you garner has a whole heck of alot to do with what kind of a story it is...

OK. I've changed my occupation although today is one of the days I look after my granddaughter - she'll be one year old on Christmas Eve.

My worst responses were in the Loving Wives category. I had the temerity to write about a wife who loved her husband and DIDN'T cheat on him...

But I like being contrary.

Og

 

[jomar]

Slyc, is the working title "Ruby, Don't Take Your Love Straight to Streaming Video?"

I wrote Denial about a man's struggle to accept his wife's obesity, which occurred over time. He loved her very much, but was a visual kind of guy in terms of sexual attraction. I figured it would stir something up, but a lot of people really misunderstood it. It seemed to hit a nerve - even got some name calling among the PCs.

 

[hmmnmm]

I don't go around with the intent to rub people the wrong way.
But, in reaction to accusations that I tend towards the over-descriptive and purple and the metaphoric I threw down a short piece and threw it on the Winter contest pyre.
I've never ever ever - after three years - had anything receive such a divided reaction. Never ever ever gotten so many votes - they go up, then down, up, then down.
It was an accidental success that I tried to immediately exploit, and jotted out two subsequent chapters - but that was a hasty mistake, because I should've just taken what 'worked' with that character and developed him into something New and Improved.
But it was a definite learning experience, if completely accidental.

 

[slyc_willie]

If you're not writing stories that will rub a few the wrong way, you're probably writing some pretty boring stories.

Am I missing something? Isn't the additional oomph simply from the added internal conflict within your heroine?

I suppose some will. I've one story about an unrepentant cheating couple and I meant to arouse a little sympathy for their spouses. A few readers commented on this ingredient of the tale, but none seemed totally outraged by it.



I agree with pretty much everyone else. You've a fine idea for a story and it's better to pour your energies into writing the best tale possible instead of worrying about how certain sensitive individuals may react.

Good points, good points. And thank you.

Indeed, the extra 'oomph' of internal turmoil that Amy goes through is what makes me come back to the story every night. I find myself wondering how much more I can turn up the heat, so to speak, to make things more complicated for my naive heroine.

My original impetus for starting this thread seems to have become a moot point, I think. As writers, it seems almsot a matter of course for us to push things a bit. Or even a lot. As Og pointed out, he has written a few stories purely for the purpose of rousing the readers, not necessarily arousing them. That's interesting.

 

[slyc_willie]

~~~

Forgive me, if that is necessary, my opinions on any matter are usually not solicited, but this is an open thread, inviting comment...

A further apologetic gesture as I have recently been accused of not treating posters as people' real live human beings and that is true, I do not, I know no one personally here and my presence is not and has never been a attempt at social interaction, merely and intellectual exchange of ideas and thoughts, without regard to personalities.

I do, however, have a warm memory of whoever slycwilly is and a comment previous made although I do not recall the particulars...

I suggest, upon reading your initial post and the follow up comments you have made, that, infidelity itself, is the theme of your story, not the circumstances of the invalided husband nor the trying conditions that required the wife to offer her services in the porn industry, all props for you to write about marital fidelity as a value and what it means.

I think you are asking the question, perhaps of yourself, perhaps in general, perhaps of your SO, as to the true value of the vows of fidelity one takes and under what circumstances, if any, they may be broken.

It is not a new theme, if that is so, and a rather mundane example might be, "Indecent Proposal", with Demi Moore, if memory serves.

Nor do I think you give a whit about the response of readers when the story is published, I think this is the response you did not wish to read.

But then...who am I?

regards...

Amicus...

You do have a tendency to punch to the quick, ami.

The idea and value of fidelity is often on my mind. To be true and honest and exclusive to one particular person, for the rest of your life, is a noble venture. It is something that makes us more than mere animals, because we are denying our basic instincts to 'sow our wild outs.' But I only speak from one man's point of view and experience.

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing more sacred and worthwhile than making a commitment of fidelity to another person. That is part of the definition of 'love,' I believe. You are making a sacrifice -- forsaking all others -- to prove that the one you are with has the capacity to emotionally, mentally, and physically and sexually satisfy you for the rest of your days.

But in a purely literary sense, perhaps, as Penny pointed out, for the added conflict, infidelity is an attractive subject. But not in practice. I see the topic the same way a district attorney sees the act of bribing a jury: a good DA would never do such a thing, but he would certainly enjoy knowing how.

 

[amicus]

ah, good, then I did not become the 'bastard child' of this thread, smiles, as is often the case.

As I was thinking to thank you or not, a new scenario, not quite along the lines you suggested, kinda popped up in the, ahm, literary region of me noggin...

That of, ah, let's see, a young man of great intellectual potential, perhaps a late discovered one, that married young to a lovely high school sweetheart of moderate intelligence but a heart as big as Texas and loyal to the core.

Supposing now, just for literary purposes, our young man, in his continuing intellectual pursuits, is attracted to an equally intellectual counterpart and is drawn, perhaps even enticed....

hmmmm....

Amicus...

 

[slyc_willie]

ah, good, then I did not become the 'bastard child' of this thread, smiles, as is often the case.

As I was thinking to thank you or not, a new scenario, not quite along the lines you suggested, kinda popped up in the, ahm, literary region of me noggin...

That of, ah, let's see, a young man of great intellectual potential, perhaps a late discovered one, that married young to a lovely high school sweetheart of moderate intelligence but a heart as big as Texas and loyal to the core.

Supposing now, just for literary purposes, our young man, in his continuing intellectual pursuits, is attracted to an equally intellectual counterpart and is drawn, perhaps even enticed....

hmmmm....

Amicus...

Glad we could inspire you, ami.

So, you have an intellectual giant married to a plain Jane, who may not satisfy him intellectually. Then along comes an equally ingenious woman who arouses him in one way . . . and then another.

Infidelity is a compelling aspect to a story, isn't it?

 

[starrkers]

An interesting aspect in the whole infidelity drama is the feeling of letting yourself down - either in committing the act of infidelity, or in making the fidelity vow to the wrong person...

 

[slyc_willie]

An interesting aspect in the whole infidelity drama is the feeling of letting yourself down - either in committing the act of infidelity, or in making the fidelity vow to the wrong person...

I'm doing a lot of that with this story. The heroine feels guilty about what she does, but rationalizes it by telling herself she needs the money to save her home, then provide a 'real' Christmas for her hubby . . . she berates herself constantly, and feels like less of a wife and a woman for having stepped out on her husband. But when she is in the studio, those thoughts go out the window.

A question, then: is her thinking realistic?

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=slyc_willie;25246455]I'm doing a lot of that with this story. The heroine feels guilty about what she does, but rationalizes it by telling herself she needs the money to save her home, then provide a 'real' Christmas for her hubby . . . she berates herself constantly, and feels like less of a wife and a woman for having stepped out on her husband. But when she is in the studio, those thoughts go out the window.

A question, then: is her thinking realistic?[/QUOTE]

~~~

Golly...a question about 'realistic', imagine that?

Sorry, I just waded through a dozen different emails from four threads and I left this one undeleted to come back to as it does interest me.

So much must go unsaid and only hinted at here...but so many marriages fail and involve infidelities of both partners, that sure the broad question of faithfullness to one partner for life is an oft asked or pondered question.

Does promiscuity prior to taking vows, saying each partner had perhaps a dozen experiences before, or, just the opposite, it was the 'first experience' for one or both of the party's involved.

Could your character, 'rationalize' working as a call girl or an escort service providing sex to several different 'johns' each week and still maintain her aplomb?

Do both partners view fidelity or loyalty to each other with the same level of value judgment?

So, 'realistic', aside from a strict religious morality that broaches no departures at all is a different thing when applied to modern secular humanists or those who have no formal understanding of morals and ethics and just live according to the whims and vagaries of a changing life...

I have a personal moral code that I live by, I am sure everyone here does also and I don't usually identify my moral precepts, nor do I expect that of anyone else, except on a general, philosophical, theoretical level.

Which is why I often attempt to engender a conversation concerning an universal set of morals and ethics and search for absolute, explainable and definable premises upon which one might comprehend and perhaps adapt as one's own.

Fidelity in general is a serious and complex and emotional issue. Supposing two young people make those vows but over the years in purely natural terms, they grow apart, emotionally and intellectually. Is there a moral solution?

What would it be?

Can o' worms, slyc.... good luck!

ami

 

[starrkers]

I'm doing a lot of that with this story. The heroine feels guilty about what she does, but rationalizes it by telling herself she needs the money to save her home, then provide a 'real' Christmas for her hubby . . . she berates herself constantly, and feels like less of a wife and a woman for having stepped out on her husband. But when she is in the studio, those thoughts go out the window.

A question, then: is her thinking realistic?

I don't know that she'd feel less of a woman - quite the opposite - but that would make her guilty too.
The rest of it sounds realistic enough to me.

 

[slyc_willie]

Golly...a question about 'realistic', imagine that?

Sorry, I just waded through a dozen different emails from four threads and I left this one undeleted to come back to as it does interest me.

So much must go unsaid and only hinted at here...but so many marriages fail and involve infidelities of both partners, that sure the broad question of faithfullness to one partner for life is an oft asked or pondered question.

Does promiscuity prior to taking vows, saying each partner had perhaps a dozen experiences before, or, just the opposite, it was the 'first experience' for one or both of the party's involved.

Could your character, 'rationalize' working as a call girl or an escort service providing sex to several different 'johns' each week and still maintain her aplomb?

Do both partners view fidelity or loyalty to each other with the same level of value judgment?

So, 'realistic', aside from a strict religious morality that broaches no departures at all is a different thing when applied to modern secular humanists or those who have no formal understanding of morals and ethics and just live according to the whims and vagaries of a changing life...

I have a personal moral code that I live by, I am sure everyone here does also and I don't usually identify my moral precepts, nor do I expect that of anyone else, except on a general, philosophical, theoretical level.

Which is why I often attempt to engender a conversation concerning an universal set of morals and ethics and search for absolute, explainable and definable premises upon which one might comprehend and perhaps adapt as one's own.

Fidelity in general is a serious and complex and emotional issue. Supposing two young people make those vows but over the years in purely natural terms, they grow apart, emotionally and intellectually. Is there a moral solution?

What would it be?

Can o' worms, slyc.... good luck!

ami

Can of worms indeed.

But I think you got a few things mixed up, although the gist of your reply applies.

My heroine is not a call girl, but instead a sort of 'accidental' amateur porn star. The money is not great at first, but it is enough to save her from homelessness.

She is married to a man significantly older than she; so this is not a relationship between two 'young people' who have not quite defined themselves. Although, in Amy's case, she is learning that fantasies and and fidelity are mutually exclusive.

'Realistic' . . . that may have been the wrong term to use. Perhaps 'believable,' or 'possible' would have been more apt. This is a fantasy story, after all, and a certain amount of suspended disbelief should apply. Like many writers, I would like this story to be viewed as a scenario many could see as likely to happen. I believe that is part of the allure, and therefore, why I am investing so much effort to explaining and describing what the heroine thinks.

As you alluded to earlier, perhaps infidelity is the more powerful of the two themes in this story.