Your Most Hated Tropes

[YmaOHyd]

A guy who enjoys giving pleasure is a beta?

I wonder if this is something that comes up in hetero-vanilla M/F (or M/FF, M/FF+) stories. I'm not much of a comments reader, but my sense, and it's only a sense, is that this isn't the case. The dude could go down on ladies until his face is chapped, and as long as he gets off at some point it's fine.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I wonder if this is something that comes up in hetero-vanilla M/F (or M/FF, M/FF+) stories. I'm not much of a comments reader, but my sense, and it's only a sense, is that this isn't the case. The dude could go down on ladies until his face is chapped, and as long as he gets off at some point it's fine.

Sort of tropes, or maybe I'm just getting old. These apply more to commentary than fiction, but they show up there too.

1. Assigning numbers to people's attractiveness, usually 1 to 10. Now we're starting to get into fractions, mostly just halves, but I expect to see quarters soon. There are guys out there who do complicated statistical analysis based on entirely subjective numbers.

2. For men, the alpha-beta split. This has become ever more elaborate with more Greek letters. One guy has worked out alpha, bravo, delta, gamma, omega, and perhaps lambda. (Bravo replaced the old beta.) He puts all gay men in that final category. He doesn't seem to have any qualifications, just opinions.

3, The assignment of names to generational cohorts. This probably started with Baby Boomers, then people wrote books (Generation X, the Greatest Generation [Brokaw]). You probably know the rest, but now we have Zoomers and, since we've reached the end of the alphabet, Alphas next.

This mostly but not entirely applies to working class to upper-middle class whites in some Western countries. It seems meaningless in much of the world. Are there Boomers in Brazil? A Generation X in Ghana?

 

[Audiflex]

I get exactly what you mean here, and it’s something that I struggled with when I started my first story. My main POV character is bisexual - he was raised in essentially an all-male environment and that’s all he had access to until college and even then he started a friends-with-benefits with his roommate.

I thought this was completely reasonable and easy to understand, but you wouldn’t believe the comments from people complaining that MC was a ‘beta’ because he enjoyed giving blowjobs. Like, what? A guy who enjoys giving pleasure is a beta? I went back and reread everything and all I could see was a kid who was overwhelmed by people who wanted to sleep with him, something he wasn’t used to but welcomed. It weirds me out how if you try to write a realistic character that isn’t a trope, folks can’t wrap their brains around it.

The other thing about my hated trope is the dehumanizing aspect of the Black guy in the story. He’s always some form of a thug - either a criminal straight out, or an athlete or rapper with an arrogant attitude. That was another thing I wanted to stand on its head, so I had one of the MCs be a rich, well-educated and successful Black guy who is marrying the MCs Mom, and they actually love each other.

Annoying that this is something weird in interracial erotica.

This is so relatable. People really struggle when a character breaks away from tired tropes. Your approach adds depth and realism, which makes the story more compelling. Honestly, more writers need to challenge these stereotypes, you're doing something important.

 

[Audiflex]

Sort of tropes, or maybe I'm just getting old. These apply more to commentary than fiction, but they show up there too.

1. Assigning numbers to people's attractiveness, usually 1 to 10. Now we're starting to get into fractions, mostly just halves, but I expect to see quarters soon. There are guys out there who do complicated statistical analysis based on entirely subjective numbers.

2. For men, the alpha-beta split. This has become ever more elaborate with more Greek letters. One guy has worked out alpha, bravo, delta, gamma, omega, and perhaps lambda. (Bravo replaced the old beta.) He puts all gay men in that final category. He doesn't seem to have any qualifications, just opinions.

3, The assignment of names to generational cohorts. This probably started with Baby Boomers, then people wrote books (Generation X, the Greatest Generation [Brokaw]). You probably know the rest, but now we have Zoomers and, since we've reached the end of the alphabet, Alphas next.

This mostly but not entirely applies to working class to upper-middle class whites in some Western countries. It seems meaningless in much of the world. Are there Boomers in Brazil? A Generation X in Ghana?

Yeah, it's wild how people try to categorize everything, even stuff that's purely subjective. The whole "alpha-beta" thing feels like insecure guys trying to make a science out of vibes. And the generational labels? Totally a Western obsession. Other cultures don't seem to care as much about that stuff. You're not getting old, you're just seeing through the nonsense.

 

[TheRedChamber]

2. For men, the alpha-beta split. This has become ever more elaborate with more Greek letters. One guy has worked out alpha, bravo, delta, gamma, omega, and perhaps lambda. (Bravo replaced the old beta.) He puts all gay men in that final category. He doesn't seem to have any qualifications, just opinions.

This was originally based on wolves and, according to my understanding... 1) people aren't wolves and 2) even the science regarding wolves has been disputed. Still I have to admit I find the alpha-beta-omega split vaguely useful as shorthand for.

Alpha: She finds him hot 'on the face of it' and generally at first glance. He has no problem attracting women and if she wants his attention, she's going to have to work for it and fight for it against the competition. If she's not unnaturally hot herself, she knows he's probably not a good long term prospect, but a hundred romance novels have taught her there's an outside chance she can tame him. Depending on social conventions or individual morals, she's may be tempted to go further than is seemly in winning him.

Beta: He's not 'hot', but if he shows consistent interest and commitment in her, he may be a good long term prospect and she may develop feelings over a longer period of time. If he's not interested in her, she's not going to show much interest in him (unless she's plugged in her number into that formula involving his salary and her number of years until the menopause).

Omega: She wants nothing to do with him full stop.

Obviously this is a spectrum, people's taste's vary etc etc but it is a useful shorthand.

Put more simply an alpha is any man who can go to a nightclub with a reasonable expectation of leaving with a stranger.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Alpha: She finds him hot 'on the face of it' and generally at first glance. He has no problem attracting women and if she wants his attention, she's going to have to work for it and fight for it against the competition. If she's not unnaturally hot herself, she knows he's probably not a good long term prospect, but a hundred romance novels have taught her there's an outside chance she can tame him. Depending on social conventions or individual morals, she's may be tempted to go further than is seemly in winning him.

Beta: He's not 'hot', but if he shows consistent interest and commitment in her, he may be a good long term prospect and she may develop feelings over a longer period of time. If he's not interested in her, she's not going to show much interest in him (unless she's plugged in her number into that formula involving his salary and her number of years until the menopause).

Omega: She wants nothing to do with him full stop.

Obviously this is a spectrum, people's taste's vary etc etc but it is a useful shorthand.

Put more simply an alpha is any man who can go to a nightclub with a reasonable expectation of leaving with a stranger.

That's an interesting shorthand, but it's different from my experience.

The way I've always understood it is that, generally speaking, "Alphas" are dominant men, the kind who make the first move, don't like taking no for an answer, who are either attractive and know it or having something that some in the opposite sex want, like money, and are willing to give that out to get what they want. They usually are willing to be pushy and aggressive. They tend to win because they go in with the attitude that winning is everything and losing is nothing. They're the risk takers.

Beta males, on the other hand, are submissive men. They're the kind who let the Alpha take their dates on the dance floor, the kind who end up getting cucked, the men who go to a bar, and no matter how good looking they are, tend to go home alone. They're the guys who won't interfere, won't throw a punch even when it's necessary, who walk away from trouble rather than seek it. They don't take risks.

That's how I've always seen the dichotomy. The omega label is a new one I'm not really familiar with.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I have a bunch of things I could say on this one. We’ll start with what I don’t like, which I’ve already said before on another thread, so I’ll try to talk about another aspect of this stuff.

I don’t like infodumping at the beginning. This is more of a convention on this specific website than it is a trope in fiction as a whole. I hate this first page infodump description bullshit that happens in sooooo many stories on here. There’s so many problems with this. Firstly, a bunch of numbers (measurements) doesn’t actually help me imagine the character. I don’t know what a 5’6” woman with a 36 inch waist and a perfect C cup bra looks like based on that information alone. Secondly, it’s lazy writing. Anyone will tell you this. Like, just find a way to get the image on the page without that crap. It’s written as if no one will read it. It’s masturbatory. It makes me distrust the author and puts me in a space of disillusionment and completely out of immersion.

On the other hand, I don’t like when there’s no physical description of the character’s bodies at all. To me that’s also laziness. Also I cannot relate to you as an author if you don’t describe your characters’ physicality especially in erotic fiction. It’s kind of a must have for me as a writer to know who the character is. It doesn’t inspire me not to know and I can’t imagine them in my mind without descriptors.

And then, there’s another thing… I’ll do another post.

I was criticized by an author of not describing my characters enough. He was giving a full set of stats -- age, colors, measurements, you name it.

This has been said over and over again, so I don't add anything to the conversation repeating it. A cup size does not say much about breasts. It says almost nothing. Most men can't properly visualize the XX measurements (e.g. 32 C.)

Funnily, there was a commenter saying that not knowing the numbers could only mean one has never been with a woman. Duh. I think the commenter was a woman (she was identifying as such.) So she was saying if you don't know what a 32-C is, you must be a virgin or something.

Numeric dick sizes are not better. Unless... you want to point out just how shallow your characters are.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

in some Western countries

no, it's US only.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I was criticized by an author of not describing my characters enough. He was giving a full set of stats -- age, colors, measurements, you name it.

This has been said over and over again, so I don't add anything to the conversation repeating it. A cup size does not say much about breasts. It says almost nothing. Most men can't properly visualize the XX measurements (e.g. 32 C.)

Funnily, there was a commenter saying that not knowing the numbers could only mean one has never been with a woman. Duh. I think the commenter was a woman (she was identifying as such.) So she was saying if you don't know what a 32-C is, you must be a virgin or something.

Numeric dick sizes are not better. Unless... you want to point out just how shallow your characters are.

The biggest problem with numeric dick sizes is that they're almost invariably wrong. Nobody measures dick size the same way, everybody trying to get the biggest number they can, and almost always the number is inflated. You look at some of the purported dick sizes of the largest cocks in porn, and they're almost all off by a third. Guys like Brickzilla, Mandingo and others are at the very high end and that's only about 8- or 9-inches tops, although the internet will say they're 11-14, even though that's anatomically unlikely unless you've got gigantism.

Nothing takes me out of the moment like "and then he unveiled his 12 inch long cock."

Yeah, good luck having enough blood pressure to keep that guy hard.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Just the massive cocks on everyone and the fifty year old that can still pass for thirty.

 

[gunhilltrain]

no, it's US only.

You mean all three "categories?" Somebody mentioned that there was a baby boom in Australia after World War II, but I don't think they use the term "boomers."

A lot of this is used as a crutch or shorthand by journalists, bloggers, YouTubers, etc. It helps them deal with the pressure to create content even if they little to say. It also helps them repeat the same themes over and over again. "What the hell am I going to say today?" Some of it may have migrated to other English-speaking countries. There is a young Australian guy who has gone all in with the "attractiveness numbers." I think he's used regression analysis - I forgot how - which is sort of amusing. You can probably find him on YouTube.

 

[lovecraft68]

This topic is becoming a trope in itself.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I was criticized by an author of not describing my characters enough. He was giving a full set of stats -- age, colors, measurements, you name it.

This has been said over and over again, so I don't add anything to the conversation repeating it. A cup size does not say much about breasts. It says almost nothing. Most men can't properly visualize the XX measurements (e.g. 32 C.)

Funnily, there was a commenter saying that not knowing the numbers could only mean one has never been with a woman. Duh. I think the commenter was a woman (she was identifying as such.) So she was saying if you don't know what a 32-C is, you must be a virgin or something.

Numeric dick sizes are not better. Unless... you want to point out just how shallow your characters are.

Just ignore such criticism. Do you see such details in 'mainstream" literature? Rarely if ever.

 

[gunhilltrain]

This topic is becoming a trope in itself.

This is only the 89th post. Hardly a record yet.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

You mean all three "categories?" Somebody mentioned that there was a baby boom in Australia after World War II, but I don't think they use the term "boomers."

A lot of this is used as a crutch or shorthand by journalists, bloggers, YouTubers, etc. It helps them deal with the pressure to create content even if they little to say. It also helps them repeat the same themes over and over again. "What the hell am I going to say today?" Some of it may have migrated to other English-speaking countries. There is a young Australian guy who has gone all in with the "attractiveness numbers." I think he's used regression analysis - I forgot how - which is sort of amusing. You can probably find him on YouTube.

The 1 to 10 is mostly an americanism, though it's transparent enough.
The generation names -- recognized in the other english speaking countries, and by some antsy teens elsewhere, but it mystifies all the rest.

 

[lovecraft68]

This is only the 89th post. Hardly a record yet.

I'm talking about it being the third one like this in recent memory.

It's earning a spot in my "thread topic drinking game"

Long story or chapters-Drink!
The Red H- a shot and a chaser
Underage-one bourbon, one scotch and one beer.
Tropes you hate-just bring the bottle.
"Women, I need to know how you feel about..." don't get too drunk, there's popcorn to eat

 

[Britva415]

the alpha-beta split. This has become ever more elaborate with more Greek letters. One guy has worked out alpha, bravo, delta, gamma, omega, and perhaps lambda. (Bravo replaced the old beta.)

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'm talking about it being the third one like this in recent memory.

It's earning a spot in my "thread topic drinking game"

Long story or chapters-Drink!
The Red H- a shot and a chaser
Underage-one bourbon, one scotch and one beer.
Tropes you hate-just bring the bottle.
"Women, I need to know how you feel about..." don't get too drunk, there's popcorn to eat

I've realized that in most social media, there is a limit on what can be discussed in a particular setting until one starts repeating things. That may not be such a bad thing, and sometimes it's worth bringing up a concern that one has. But after six years, it becomes less useful as a forum or whatever it is starts a new cycle. I went through a phase (over a year ago?) where I started digressing a lot and "hijacking" threads (nice term). Newer people come in, but some of the older ones (like me?) hang one because it's a reasonably entertaining way to kill some time.

I was writing more than this, but I really went off on a tangent. Do you get what I'm talking about? A hundred years ago I might be hanging out at some bar or pub, socializing, but I wouldn't put more emphasis on it than that.

 

[OffNSFW]

I keep reading story after story where it's a guy with an eight inch cock, or two guys with eight inch cocks, or a whole room full of guys with eight inch cocks who can stay hard around each other.

Folks, where are we finding all these sexually adventurous guys with eight inch cocks?

Not that I'm curious or anything, but is there an address or a phone number? No reason. Maybe an email list. I just need to know where they can be found so that I can avoid them.

 

[Abbafan]

Yeah, it's wild how people try to categorize everything, even stuff that's purely subjective. The whole "alpha-beta" thing feels like insecure guys trying to make a science out of vibes. And the generational labels? Totally a Western obsession. Other cultures don't seem to care as much about that stuff. You're not getting old, you're just seeing through the nonsense.

I agree, but I also think it is useful to have categories like that, just as kind of a reference point. Like when you're talking about books. Describing something as romance or horror gives a very rough idea of what kind of story you might be getting. You can still have things that cut across categories or defy the categories all together. I guess some people just like everything to be cut and dried. Everything neat and in it's place.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Folks, where are we finding all these sexually adventurous guys with eight inch cocks?

In porn, I think.

 

[Abbafan]

Sister accidentally walks in on brother showering/peeing/changing/masturbating/whatever, catches a glimpse of his 12-- no, wait-- let's make it 14-inch cock, and becomes instantly obsessed with it, to the point where she Must Have It Right Now™, and then seduces him from never having thought of her in that way to Must Fuck Her Right Now™ in thirty seconds just by dancing around in a T-shirt or bikini or whatever, with no buildup, exploration of their feelings, or fears over expressing them.

And it seems like those stories are always written by a dude. Oversized body parts seem to be almost entirely a guy obsession. Even when it comes to the male bodies. Not that we are all like that. I'm more like Anthony Michael Hall in Weird Science. A handful is fine.

And not that there aren't women who prefer a guy who's bigger down there. I'm talking about what you wrote, the cock so large he's in danger from fainting because of loss of blood supply to his brain if he gets hard.

 

[Nynah]

I keep reading story after story where it's a guy with an eight inch cock, or two guys with eight inch cocks, or a whole room full of guys with eight inch cocks who can stay hard around each other.

Folks, where are we finding all these sexually adventurous guys with eight inch cocks?

Not that I'm curious or anything, but is there an address or a phone number? No reason. Maybe an email list. I just need to know where they can be found so that I can avoid them.

I truly do not understand the obssession with nearly foot-long penises. I like not running the risk of something bruising my cervix when I have sex.

Speaking in writing terms, I can understand the desire to have your main character to be well-endowed; a lot of erotica is male-centric fantasy after all. But I think it's fairly lazy to call out the specific length of a character's penis when a descriptor like "large" or "girthy" or several other fun words exist and often flow much better in the course of a narrative. Personally I'd prefer a man of average size who knows how to use it.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've realized that in most social media, there is a limit on what can be discussed in a particular setting until one starts repeating things. That may not be such a bad thing, and sometimes it's worth bringing up a concern that one has. But after six years, it becomes less useful as a forum or whatever it is starts a new cycle. I went through a phase (over a year ago?) where I started digressing a lot and "hijacking" threads (nice term). Newer people come in, but some of the older ones (like me?) hang one because it's a reasonably entertaining way to kill some time.

I was writing more than this, but I really went off on a tangent. Do you get what I'm talking about? A hundred years ago I might be hanging out at some bar or pub, socializing, but I wouldn't put more emphasis on it than that.

They say there are only x amount of story plots out there, so maybe the same is true for discussion topics. If they're spread out over some time its not so bad because newer people have arrived and may not know of it, and contribute different takes, but it seems things are getting recycled a lot more quickly.

I agree with your take that after an initial learning curve it seems like this is literally a hang out and not so much a place to take discussions seriously, and its been a long running joke that this is a great place to procrastinate.

The thread jacking hasn't seemed as prevalent to me the last few months-then again, I don't post in every single thread. If I have no interest or don't feel I have any knowledge of the topic I don't need to post just for the sake of it. A year or so ago we had a person who was a "thread jacker in chief" sort and all their friends would immediately pile in and for a time no thread could stay on topic at all, but they left some time ago and its been better, or as much as it will be, as (uses dramatic voice and pause for effect.) Thread Jacking....it happens every day

 

[lovecraft68]

Yeah, it's wild how people try to categorize everything, even stuff that's purely subjective. The whole "alpha-beta" thing feels like insecure guys trying to make a science out of vibes. And the generational labels? Totally a Western obsession. Other cultures don't seem to care as much about that stuff. You're not getting old, you're just seeing through the nonsense.

For as long as I can remember, I've always seen the "Alpha" male as a projection of the opposite. If someone has to tell you they're an alpha they prove the opposite. Same in the context of a dominant. If they are constantly telling you they are the domliest dom who has ever dommed? Yeah, not so much.