2009 Survivor Literotica: Planning & Plotting

[CrimsonMaiden]

Do you just hate me, CrimsonMaiden, or are you always this angry?

*blah blah blah blah*

This isn't the first time you've acted like an asshole.

Wow... hair trigger much? If you go off that amazingly on one tiny little comment, I hate to see what you would post if I said everything that ever goes through my mind when I read one of your posts.

Oh, the asshole comment is laughable. You go ask anyone in the AH who have known me over the last 5 years that I've been here if they've ever seen me be an asshole, and they will probably fall off their chairs from laughing at the ridiculous question you just asked them. I'm about as far away from being an asshole as Mother Theresa was from being a whore.

I think it's quite amusing that you went off on one tiny little cranky comment. Of course you had to start throwing around your usual insults and personal attacks when you did.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Now, can we get back to the purpose of this thread? Anyone else have any comments on the proposed new rules or any other suggestions?

 

[starrkers]

Can we get a recap please? I believe there's been a couple of changes to the original concept as posted by Lauren.

I'm still a little confused on how immunities will work.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Can we get a recap please? I believe there's been a couple of changes to the original concept as posted by Lauren.

I'm still a little confused on how immunities will work.

Yeah, a little summary would really help.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Can we get a recap please? I believe there's been a couple of changes to the original concept as posted by Lauren.

I'm still a little confused on how immunities will work.

Here's a recap of where I think we are right now. Let's base our further discussion on these:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exception to this rule is the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on.
   
   
3. Immunities will be equated to regular submissions for all scoring purposes. If you use an immunity for a given category, it will not close that category as it happened until now; instead, it will be worth 3 points if it's the first entry in the category you choose, or 1 point otherwise. To fill the 3-submission cap on any given category, you will need 3 immunities, or 2 immunities and a regular submission, or 1 immunity and 2 regular submissions, or 3 regular submissions.
   
   
4. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.
   
   
5. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies.
   
   
6. Scoring for Novels and Novellas' submissions is no longer doubled, but the word limit remains at 7500 words; only independent, standalone submissions are allowed.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Here's a recap of where I think we are right now. Let's base our further discussion on these:

1. Multi-chaptered stories will not be allowed. Each submission needs to be completely original and completely independent. Stories can feature recurring characters, they can contain references to each other, but they must be entirely, unequivocally, standalone. The only exception to this rule is the Chain Stories category, for obvious reasons, but each author will only be allowed one chapter eligible for Survivor per chain.
   
   
2. There will be a 3-submission cap for all categories. If an author completes his/her scorecard with 3 submissions in each and every category, the cap for that author will be increased to 5. If he/she then reaches that cap in each and every category, the cap will again be raised to 6, then 7, then 8, and so on.
   
   
3. Immunities will be equated to regular submissions for all scoring purposes. If you use an immunity for a given category, it will not close that category as it happened until now; instead, it will be worth 3 points if it's the first entry in the category you choose, or 1 point otherwise. To fill the 3-submission cap on any given category, you will need 3 immunities, or 2 immunities and a regular submission, or 1 immunity and 2 regular submissions, or 3 regular submissions.
   
   
4. In addition to the 35 regular categories, there will be a bonus category: Special Contests. Submissions in this heading must be valid entries accepted in a Literotica Special Contest. Only one entry per contest is eligible for points, and if it is counted under this heading, it cannot be counted under a regular category. There will be an extra bonus for entering all 6 special contests. Immunities cannot be used for this bonus category, neither does this category count towards the 10-, 20-, 30- and all-category bonuses.
   
   
5. The bonus for having 10 submissions in one category no longer applies.
   
   
6. Scoring for Novels and Novellas' submissions is no longer doubled, but the word limit remains at 7500 words; only independent, standalone submissions are allowed.

I believe we've also stated that the ratio of stories to immunities will stay with the current ruling. I'll go check the exact wording of that and add it in second. At the end of the year, all immunities claimed will be considered valid, as long as there are two categories filled with regular submissions for each immunity. e.g.: If a contestant has 7 immunities won, but has only regular submissions in 12 different categories, only the first 6 immunities will be considered valid.

Okay, discussion on the novellas category. I feel that due to the scope of the category that we should allow chapters for this category only. People expect submissions to that category to be continuation of previous chapters and not necessarily stand alone ones and novels/novellas tend to have chapters in the print world. The word count of 7,500 should still apply.

Okay, I have another suggestion/question. Is there some kind of guideline we can set up for erotic content in a story? I've seen numerous stories this year that are put in erotic category and may have one sentence describing a kiss or stating that a blow job was given or sex was had. I'm sorry, but to me, that is not erotic content. I realize a story can be erotic without sex taking place (IE, a sexy strip tease), but getting points for stories in erotic categories that only have a sentence or two thrown in to make them qualify for the "erotic" part is not fair in the least to other participants who take the time to actually describe an erotic scene befitting the chosen category.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I believe we've also stated that the ratio of stories to immunities will stay with the current ruling. I'll go check the exact wording of that and add it in second. At the end of the year, all immunities claimed will be considered valid, as long as there are two categories filled with regular submissions for each immunity. e.g.: If a contestant has 7 immunities won, but has only regular submissions in 12 different categories, only the first 6 immunities will be considered valid.

Yes, same ratio, although now it would be in relation to regular submissions rather than to categories: At the end of the year, all immunities claimed will be considered valid, as long as there are two regular submissions for each immunity. e.g.: If a contestant has 7 immunities won, but has only 12 regular submissions, only the first 6 immunities will be considered valid.

Okay, discussion on the novellas category. I feel that due to the scope of the category that we should allow chapters for this category only. People expect submissions to that category to be continuation of previous chapters and not necessarily stand alone ones and novels/novellas tend to have chapters in the print world. The word count of 7,500 should still apply.

I agree.

Okay, I have another suggestion/question. Is there some kind of guideline we can set up for erotic content in a story? I've seen numerous stories this year that are put in erotic category and may have one sentence describing a kiss or stating that a blow job was given or sex was had. I'm sorry, but to me, that is not erotic content. I realize a story can be erotic without sex taking place (IE, a sexy strip tease), but getting points for stories in erotic categories that only have a sentence or two thrown in to make them qualify for the "erotic" part is not fair in the least to other participants who take the time to actually describe an erotic scene befitting the chosen category.

I'm hoping that with stories having to be standalone, this won't happen a lot less often, and when it does, it should be a lot easier to report the and have them changed to non-Erotic.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I'm hoping that with stories having to be standalone, this won't happen a lot less often, and when it does, it should be a lot easier to report the and have them changed to non-Erotic.

Maybe a warning can be added to the rules stating such? So at least when it happens, we won't have anyone crying foul. Something alone the lines of "Stories included in erotic categories must have descriptive erotic content. Any stories that do not will be moved to Non-Erotic."

I know it should be one of those things that everyone should know without being told, but I still guarantee it will happen, even with the chapter ban.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

That sounds like a good enough idea to me too.

 

[MungoParkIII]

"Stories included in erotic categories must have descriptive erotic content. Any stories that do not will be moved to Non-Erotic."

I have to wonder if we can get a more precise definition of "descriptive" erotic content. I have seen some wonderfully erotic stories completed with very little sexual description. Jthserra wrote How to Eat an Oyster basically describing eating an oyster that is wonderfully erotic. He also had another story that described eating sushi that was incredibly erotic The Sensuous Arts of Sushi.

Both are incredibly erotic but have no actual sexual description. I'd hate to see such erotic art excluded from the contest, or even worse, slotted in the non-erotic category.

MPIII

PS These are some of the stories deemed crap by a longtime author here.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I have to wonder if we can get a more precise definition of "descriptive" erotic content. I have seen some wonderfully erotic stories completed with very little sexual description. Jthserra wrote How to Eat an Oyster basically describing eating an oyster that is wonderfully erotic. He also had another story that described eating sushi that was incredibly erotic The Sensuous Arts of Sushi.

Both are incredibly erotic but have no actual sexual description. I'd hate to see such erotic art excluded from the contest, or even worse, slotted in the non-erotic category.

MPIII

PS These are some of the stories deemed crap by a longtime author here.

That's why I was weary of introducing any "guidelines". Eroticism is a subjective thing and should be judged on a case-by-case basis at the source: when the story is approved for publication. Having a warning about it on the rules wouldn't make it binding, though; more like an I-told-you-so in case the story ends up being relocated into a better-suited category - which already happens anyway.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I have a comment regarding the chain stories category. This year there were only 3 active chain stories. In following the rule that you can not have chapter stories, wasn't it mentioned that you can only submit 1 story per chain story? In any case that would limit those people wanting to write 5 or more stories in each category as you would need to win a lot of immunities to have that many submissions in the chain story category.

Yeah, but there's no reason for there not to be 5, 10, or 100 chain stories going. Anyone can get one going, if there's an interest in the idea, and with it being a requirement for Survivor, the easier it will be to raise the interest in a new one.

I also disagree with the novels section still being at 7500 words and being stand alone stories. Could we reverse the rule and say that submissions in the novels category must be chapters of the same story, and thus emphasis the purpose of that category?

I think that it would be fair to say that the spirit of Novels and Novellas includes Novelettes as well, which have between 7500 and 17500 words. Considering that, I believe it would be better to allow both standalone and chapter submissions in this category, as long as each of them has at least 7500 words.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Oh, for Christ sake. All these rule changes just because I wrote multi-chapter stories this year.

This is unbelievable.

There was no rules changed when Mungo Park dumped hundreds of 750-1000 word stories in November and December to beat me.

Yet, because I dare write multi-chapter stories, stories that are 2,000-4,000 words, you have to turn this Survivor Contest upside down to spite one person.

I'll tell you what to make it easier on you? What if I promise not to submit a multi-chapter story in the Survivor Contest. All this other stuff is just bullshit.

The only thing that I like about the new rules is that now contestants will have to continually update their scorecards to show that they have reached 3 stories in each category before they can continue.

All the rest of this is just whacky? I can't pay my attorney enough money to figure out the rules of this contest for next year. Maybe, it would be better for everyone if I didn't compete in 2009. What about that for a change?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I have to wonder if we can get a more precise definition of "descriptive" erotic content. I have seen some wonderfully erotic stories completed with very little sexual description. Jthserra wrote How to Eat an Oyster basically describing eating an oyster that is wonderfully erotic. He also had another story that described eating sushi that was incredibly erotic The Sensuous Arts of Sushi.

Both are incredibly erotic but have no actual sexual description. I'd hate to see such erotic art excluded from the contest, or even worse, slotted in the non-erotic category.

MPIII

PS These are some of the stories deemed crap by a longtime author here.

Which is why I said "erotic" and not "sexual". I just would like the warning in place so when a story that only has "She sucked my cock and it was good," in it gets moved, we simply have to direct the contestant to the warning. Nice and concise way to deal with any "that's not fair" or "you're trying to cheat me" comments.

Laurel has the final say on what gets moved. Lauren and I can only make suggestions.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Which is why I said "erotic" and not "sexual". I just would like the warning in place so when a story that only has "She sucked my cock and it was good," in it gets moved, we simply have to direct the contestant to the warning. Nice and concise way to deal with any "that's not fair" or "you're trying to cheat me" comments.

Laurel has the final say on what gets moved. Lauren and I can only make suggestions.

When I complained last year to Laurel about my treatment in the contest and how my stories were constantly moved from category to non-erotic and to reviews and essays, she told me that she had little to do with the contest. She said the contest was run by the moderators and not her.

I don't know what and who to believe. It would be nice if I knew the rules.

Moreover, I was under the opinion that the name of this site was Literotica and not Sexualotica. It appears that writers, such as myself, are penalized for writing erotic stories when they do not contain graphic sex. When I write an erotic story, I had better post it to non-erotic or expect it to be moved there at the end of December without warning and without notice.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Oh, for Christ sake. All these rule changes just because I wrote multi-chapter stories this year.

This is unbelievable.

There was no rules changed when Mungo Park dumped hundreds of 750-1000 word stories in November and December to beat me.

Yet, because I dare write multi-chapter stories, stories that are 2,000-4,000 words, you have to turn this Survivor Contest upside down to spite one person.

I'll tell you what to make it easier on you? What if I promise not to submit a multi-chapter story in the Survivor Contest. All this other stuff is just bullshit.

The only thing that I like about the new rules is that now contestants will have to continually update their scorecards to show that they have reached 3 stories in each category before they can continue.

All the rest of this is just whacky? I can't pay my attorney enough money to figure out the rules of this contest for next year. Maybe, it would be better for everyone if I didn't compete in 2009. What about that for a change?

Oh good grief. You know... not everything is about you. Do you honestly think you're the only contestant who wrote multi-chaptered stories? Geez. I found numerous multi-chaptered stories from contestants that, IMHO, did not stand alone. We're just trying to get back to the original spirit of the contest.

Contestants do not have to continually update their scorecards (unless we decide to include something about that in the rules.) Points aren't officially counted until the contest is over. They can write whatever they please, in whatever order they please, but in the end, stories won't be counted for points unless they meet the scoring guidelines.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Oh good grief. You know... not everything is about you. Do you honestly think you're the only contestant who wrote multi-chaptered stories? Geez. I found numerous multi-chaptered stories from contestants that, IMHO, did not stand alone. We're just trying to get back to the original spirit of the contest.

Contestants do not have to continually update their scorecards (unless we decide to include something about that in the rules.) Points aren't officially counted until the contest is over. They can write whatever they please, in whatever order they please, but in the end, stories won't be counted for points unless they meet the scoring guidelines.

Of course, I was talking about updating scorecards in 2009. The way that I (please pardon the use of I) understand the rules is that to prove that all categories are satisified with the three story rule, they must show the stories posted to their scorecards.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

When I complained last year to Laurel about my treatment in the contest and how my stories were constantly moved from category to non-erotic and to reviews and essays, she told me that she had little to do with the contest. She said the contest was run by the moderators and not her.

I don't know what and who to believe. It would be nice if I knew the rules.

Moreover, I was under the opinion that the name of this site was Literotica and not Sexualotica. It appears that writers, such as myself, are penalized for writing erotic stories when they do not contain graphic sex. When I write an erotic story, I had better post it to non-erotic or expect it to be moved there at the end of December without warning and without notice.

To my knowledge, only she and Manu can move stories from one category to another. I send my suggestions to Lauren, and she takes it from there. Plus, anyone can use the "report this story" function to report a story they believe doesn't fit in the category. Laurel and Manu get those reports, not Lauren and me.

I'm not even getting into the erotic argument with you except to say that I've not found anything in your stories that are remotely erotic... but as long as the scenes you "intend" as erotic are fairly descriptive, I leave them alone.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Of course, I was talking about updating scorecards in 2009. The way that I (please pardon the use of I) understand the rules is that to prove that all categories are satisified with the three story rule, they must show the stories posted to their scorecards.

As was I. Points are not officially tabulated until the contest is over. *If* they want their points counted for scoreboard updates, then they must meet the requirements for the score to be posted on the update. However, as of right now, there is no rule stating they must keep it updated. They can enter and not put anything on their cards until the end. Unless we change that rule. It's open for discussion.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

As was I. Points are not officially tabulated until the contest is over. *If* they want their points counted for scoreboard updates, then they must meet the requirements for the score to be posted on the update. However, as of right now, there is no rule stating they must keep it updated. They can enter and not put anything on their cards until the end. Unless we change that rule. It's open for discussion.

Not to belabor this point and I beg your indulgence, but if they don't update their scorecards in 2009, how will moderators know if the contestants have met their 3 stories in each category before they can continue with 5 stories in each category and so on?

 

[fieryjen]

Not to belabor this point and I beg your indulgence, but if they don't update their scorecards in 2009, how will moderators know if the contestants have met their 3 stories in each category before they can continue with 5 stories in each category and so on?

That's actually a good point. We need a clarification on this rule.

Can I submit five stories in, say, erotic couplings, and only count three of them for the contest until my cap is raised, and count all five stories for points after that? Or do I have to wait to submit the last two stories until my cap is raised in order for them to be counted?

If it's the second, which I think is what you assumed if I understood your post correctly, Freddie, there would be a lot of work ahead for the moderators at the end of the year to verify the dates of the submitted stories - if there was no requirement to keep scores updated throughout the year. If it's the first, there wouldn't be need for that, but it wouldn't really be in the spirit of the changes we're trying to make right now, I feel.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

The proposed rule states that the submissions must meet the cap requirement to be counted for points. I don't see why it would matter if you write 5 in one category before you reach the cap. They still won't count for points until the cap requirement is met. I would think you could submit anything you wish. You just can't count it for points until you meet the cap. I don't see it being against the spirit of the changes. I don't see any reason to police what you submit. There's no requirement that says you have to count a submitted story for points. Never has been. We only count what you've put on your scorecard. That's it.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[starrkers]

I'm assuming the bonuses for categories filled (10 categories, 20 categories, etc) will remain.

Will there be a bonus for three stories in each category; five stories in each; etc requirement?

I still see a problem with needing three immunities in a category of absolutely no interest to the writer before being able to advance to the next level.
Could we not use them, similar to now, where one immunity is enough for each level of competition. Let's see if I can explain what I mean lucidly (still on first cup of coffee for the day )
One immunity would cover the three-story requirement, if the writer then wanted to go for the five stories per cat they would need another immunity in that particular category, and then another if they went up to the next level.
The first immunity would be worth 3 points, all subsequent immunities in that category worth 1.

To cover the scoring confusion (you're cheating, you wrote a fourth story in Romance before filling the three story requirement), just be careful in wording the rule. Something like
"All categories must have three entries or the immunity equivalent before points will be awarded for any subsequent story in any category. The stories may be written at any time, but points for extra stories will only be awarded after the three story requirement is filled."
That's cumbersome and needs finessing, but I think it covers it.