A Rant on the Perniciousness of "Damaged" Characters in BDSM Stories

[desertslave]

The one movie I can think of that was better than the book, more literate, more nuanced-- funnier-- was "Babe."

I think you're right, but that still made me snort coffee.

 

[LucyH]

It's not that the mass murderer is gay,or does SM-- but that the gay guy or the SM practitioner is always the mass murderer.

Unless they are the murder victims, that's another popular fate for the non-normatives.

Ever come across a show/movie/book where the murderer or victim happens to be gay or into S&M, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the reason they're unhinged or dead? I haven't yet, but I don't watch/read a lot of murder mysteries.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I just hate the idea that, should I ever be out (voluntarily or not), someone will inevitably wonder what went so horribly wrong in my childhood to make me "like that." Hrmph!

Yeah, there's a lot of it about. Sometimes it's misunderstanding of BDSM, sometimes it's just lazy writing, and it's annoying.

Not only for the undamaged folk, BTW - I have a friend with PTSD who is getting very tired of people assuming that BDSM is part of her illness, when she sees it as a separate (and healthy) part of herself.

FWIW, in the first season of 'Castle' it's heavily implied that Castle and Beckett both have some experience with BDSM as bottom and top respectively. While Beckett is presented as a damaged character due to her mother's death etc, there's never any suggestion that there's any connection between the two.

CSI gave semi-sympathetic coverage to BDSM back in the Lady Heather episodes; at least one of the clients was messed up, but I don't think they pathologised the dommes.

Edit the second: there's a Castle episode where one of the murder victims is established as bi (Halloween one with vampires and werewolves; they mention that he had a boyfriend but nobody seems to be particularly excited by the fact, and it's not related to the murder.) They did pathologise his goth leanings, which irritated me, but as best I can recall that didn't extend to his sexuality.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ever come across a show/movie/book where the murderer or victim happens to be gay or into S&M, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with the reason they're unhinged or dead? I haven't yet, but I don't watch/read a lot of murder mysteries.

Hmm. Of course, the threat of being outed is always a good motive for killing someone, like in "Midnight In the Garden Of Good And Evil." But there were peripheral characters who were also gay but not so damaged. and there was Lady Chablis, who was so sympathetic and adorable.

 

[LucyH]

Hmm. Of course, the threat of being outed is always a good motive for killing someone, like in "Midnight In the Garden Of Good And Evil." But there were peripheral characters who were also gay but not so damaged. and there was Lady Chablis, who was so sympathetic and adorable.

But not like... a lesbian who was killed because she knew too much about shady corporate accounting, leaving behind a distraught wife, who perhaps turns out to be of some help in solving the mystery? Or a guy who's into S&M but kills someone for convoluted reasons involving gambling debts, mistaken identity, and the illegal importation of endangered tree frogs, and takes no pleasure at all in it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Whoah, Lucy, what a concept!

 

[LucyH]

Whoah, Lucy, what a concept!

Thanks. Admittedly, I haven't exactly worked out the details as to how the tree frogs come into play, though.

 

[LucyH]

Edit the second: there's a Castle episode where one of the murder victims is established as bi (Halloween one with vampires and werewolves; they mention that he had a boyfriend but nobody seems to be particularly excited by the fact, and it's not related to the murder.) They did pathologise his goth leanings, which irritated me, but as best I can recall that didn't extend to his sexuality.

Well, that's something at least.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thanks. Admittedly, I haven't exactly worked out the details as to how the tree frogs come into play, though.

Because of the orchids? Very valuable things yanno.

 

[LucyH]

I was watching a re-run of criminal minds last night while I dyed my hair. (http://cmepisodes.blogspot.ca/2008_01_01_archive.html) This time the murderer is a sadist with a thing for electro-torture, and a crossdresser.

Adding to my to-do list: Write something about a detective who's a crossdressing sadist with a thing for electro-torture. The murderer will have a thing for missionary position with the lights off.

 

[missgiter]

Some people just can't let other folks ... be. They have to stick some label on everything they don't understand. Sad, but it's the way the world turns, I s'pose.

And, for anything to go main-stream and be held as semi-respectable, they have to put it in some terms that 'main-stream' can understand... Sad as is it to say, Main-stream doesn't = intelligence (For the most part).

Our 'community' just needs to make our own great movies, books... etc. And 'stick it to the man' so to speak

 

[Netzach]

Some people just can't let other folks ... be. They have to stick some label on everything they don't understand. Sad, but it's the way the world turns, I s'pose.

And, for anything to go main-stream and be held as semi-respectable, they have to put it in some terms that 'main-stream' can understand... Sad as is it to say, Main-stream doesn't = intelligence (For the most part).

Our 'community' just needs to make our own great movies, books... etc. And 'stick it to the man' so to speak

This. I can't even find mainstream stuff that doesn't treat me like I'm an idiot for having a vagina, why would I expect them to respect what I like to do with it?

DIY.

 

[missgiter]

This. I can't even find mainstream stuff that doesn't treat me like I'm an idiot for having a vagina, why would I expect them to respect what I like to do with it?

DIY.

Truer words were never spoken. Oh, wait, You have a vagina? Next please - she doesn't have any clue what's going on!

 

[caged_doll]

It's awful...in Michigan we've got a man who allegedly paid to have his wife murdered and who paid a hitman to arrange a hit on the other hitman. Of course the fact that this man was involved in D/s is just the icing on the cake; every news broadcast has to bring up his "sex dungeon" or his "alternative lifestyle." One of the local channels even sent someone in with a hidden camera to a monthly BDSM party and put images from the party on the news...faces and tattoos were obscured eventually, but still...

 

[missgiter]

It's awful...in Michigan we've got a man who allegedly paid to have his wife murdered and who paid a hitman to arrange a hit on the other hitman. Of course the fact that this man was involved in D/s is just the icing on the cake; every news broadcast has to bring up his "sex dungeon" or his "alternative lifestyle." One of the local channels even sent someone in with a hidden camera to a monthly BDSM party and put images from the party on the news...faces and tattoos were obscured eventually, but still...

Yeah, that borders on just fucking SAD right there. I'd be all over that shit like a fly on stink. Our local news is pretty integrated with facebook, where users can post opinions and such. I'd have a lot to say on that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was watching a re-run of criminal minds last night while I dyed my hair. (http://cmepisodes.blogspot.ca/2008_01_01_archive.html) This time the murderer is a sadist with a thing for electro-torture, and a crossdresser.

Adding to my to-do list: Write something about a detective who's a crossdressing sadist with a thing for electro-torture. The murderer will have a thing for missionary position with the lights off.

This is such a damn good idea.

And, for anything to go main-stream and be held as semi-respectable, they have to put it in some terms that 'main-stream' can understand... Sad as is it to say, Main-stream doesn't = intelligence (For the most part).

Our 'community' just needs to make our own great movies, books... etc.

Which is what started me writing in the first place.

The 'community' has produced some great stuff. I don't know from het, but Pat Califia has written a ton of excellent dyke fiction. And there's Laura Antonieu (sp?) as well. That might be het, now that I think of it.

Our own Lovecraft68 has something that looks like its going to be very good. I've read some snippets and I was really impressed.

 

[desertslave]

This is such a damn good idea. Which is what started me writing in the first place.

The 'community' has produced some great stuff. I don't know from het, but Pat Califia has written a ton of excellent dyke fiction. And there's Laura Antonieu (sp?) as well. That might be het, now that I think of it.

Our own Lovecraft68 has something that looks like its going to be very good. I've read some snippets and I was really impressed.

Coming to Power is still one of my all-time favorite books. My first copy was so battered that I finally bought a new one.

 

[Noor]

Did you guys see that video of the cookie monster reading excerpts? of 50 shades, and I prefer the Erica Jung character with removes the tampon with his teeth.

I haven't read 50 shades just various excerpts, what I have seen so far looks strange. Does the author have any experience with sex at all? At least with that truly boring french book, something of Catherine whatever, you got the feeling that she actually did have sex with all those guys.

As to if people who practice BDSM are damaged, I would say no probably no more than anyone else might be. The characters in 50 shades are fairly young so they probably shouldn't be as damaged as people who have gone through more of life.

I have seen people use various sex practices to avoid intimacy and responsibility, but you see that in the vanilla world too. Besides as long as they have willing partners it doesn't matter.

One of my gfs' new bf wont have sex with the lights on, not sure what that is about but who cares? You just work around it.

I figure if what you are doing gets in the way of your ability to live and enjoy your life which includes close relationships of some sort then you need to work how how you can change that but otherwise.

I would say that some BDSM works like Sade's Justine do have seriously damaged characters in them, Justine for instance, but that is not about consensual sex at all. I think people confused stories that consensual with those that are not.

 

[Noor]

Hmm. Of course, the threat of being outed is always a good motive for killing someone, like in "Midnight In the Garden Of Good And Evil." But there were peripheral characters who were also gay but not so damaged. and there was Lady Chablis, who was so sympathetic and adorable.

The Lady Chablis

I think that is a social strata thing-its okay to be a drunk, a womanizer, buy sex, embezzle funds, run out on your family and screw your subordinates, but for a guy to be outed as gay is like societal death.

 

[cfuhrer]

The one movie I can think of that was better than the book, more literate, more nuanced-- funnier-- was "Babe."

Babe? Like, the pig, Babe?

Ouch. Not exactly a rousing recommendation of literature based cinema. But, I myself cannot come up with another example.

I'm going to finish reading the thread, then see if I actually have something of value to contribute.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I just thought of another-- "Room with a View." But that was better because so much tedious shit got left out of the film.

 

[cfuhrer]

Did you guys see that video of the cookie monster reading excerpts? of 50 shades, and I prefer the Erica Jung character with removes the tampon with his teeth.

I haven't read 50 shades just various excerpts, what I have seen so far looks strange. Does the author have any experience with sex at all? At least with that truly boring french book, something of Catherine whatever, you got the feeling that she actually did have sex with all those guys.

As to if people who practice BDSM are damaged, I would say no probably no more than anyone else might be. The characters in 50 shades are fairly young so they probably shouldn't be as damaged as people who have gone through more of life.

I have seen people use various sex practices to avoid intimacy and responsibility, but you see that in the vanilla world too. Besides as long as they have willing partners it doesn't matter.

One of my gfs' new bf wont have sex with the lights on, not sure what that is about but who cares? You just work around it.

I figure if what you are doing gets in the way of your ability to live and enjoy your life which includes close relationships of some sort then you need to work how how you can change that but otherwise.

I would say that some BDSM works like Sade's Justine do have seriously damaged characters in them, Justine for instance, but that is not about consensual sex at all. I think people confused stories that consensual with those that are not.

I have to admit that while I am currently reading Justine, I've only just gotten to the Convent Sainte Marie de Bois. So far she doesn't seem all that damaged, at least not yet.

And I do agree that many seem to forget/ignore/disregard what is consensual versus not.

 

[missgiter]

This is such a damn good idea. Which is what started me writing in the first place.

The 'community' has produced some great stuff. I don't know from het, but Pat Califia has written a ton of excellent dyke fiction. And there's Laura Antonieu (sp?) as well. That might be het, now that I think of it.

Our own Lovecraft68 has something that looks like its going to be very good. I've read some snippets and I was really impressed.

That's what brought me here. In search of something worth my time to read!

 

[RjThoughts]

I wanted to read Fifty Shades, but I couldn't get past the really bad Harlequin Romance with some kink thrown in. It was truly painful and I gave up after 3 chapters. I have never watched a movie I felt was better than the book. Perhaps this will prove the exception.

S~

This is what I've said before. It was obvious the writer never researched the subject, nor did she wish to. Truly a black mark for the next BDSM novel that comes out, and it accurately portrays both the DOM and his/hers submissive.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's what brought me here. In search of something worth my time to read!

Are you finding it?