A serious discussion about BDSM and weight

[EmpressFi]

When i was growing up, we had water fountains. They were free and rumor has it that water is good for you. Do schools still have water fountains? And, my parents gave me lunch to take to school. Is that still allowed?

Your parents made you lunch.. but not every parent cares that much to do it or is able to do it.

 

[Netzach]

When i was growing up, we had water fountains. They were free and rumor has it that water is good for you. Do schools still have water fountains? And, my parents gave me lunch to take to school. Is that still allowed?

Please spend six months in a school where you have to share crayon boxes and workbooks and there are holes in everything. Get back to me.

 

[Homburg]

Are there studies relating children who get free/reduced school meals that are obese compared to the children who do not get free/reduced school meals?

No clue. Why is that relevant? You were saying that no one is holding a gun to their head and making them consume HFCS. I made the point that anyone that eats school lunch is consuming HFCS, and that for many the only other choice is hunger. Why would studies, obesity, or anything else have relevance in the question of nutritional choice?

And, in my area at least, school lunch is just shy of $2. You can make lunch cheaper than that if you do it right. However, to go back to families that receive free lunch, free is by default cheaper than $2 or whatever your PB&J lunch would cost. Take that $2 by five days a week and you have $10, 4 weeks in a month produces $40/month, and a school year lasting around 10 months, and you have $400 per child. I have four kids. School lunch would cost me $1600/year if all of my kids were old enough to be in school.

And at least be cool enough to filter your kid's tap water. Do you know what's in that shit?

No idea what a loaf of bread costs, or how many sandwiches come out of it. viv handles that. I will say that free lunch for my kids is a damned sight better than $1600/year. I'll run their little asses off after school and handle the HFCS that way. But I should at least be aware of it.

 

[subbie_333]

I should think that point would be self-evident.

At any rate, the soda machine is a great example of a way to make choices easier for people, as I wrote in the second half of this sentence from post 429: "The idea is to remove the deleterious conditions that are beyond an individual's control, and make it easier for people to opt for the choices they know they should make."

A kid can't buy a coke at his school if the machine just simply isn't there.

Correct. But, why are soda machines "deleterious conditions that are beyond an individual's control"? That is claiming that a person has no control over their choice to purchase a soda.

 

[subbie_333]

Your parents made you lunch.. but not every parent cares that much to do it or is able to do it.

Granted. But, that is not an obesity problem, that is a parenting problem.

 

[subbie_333]

Please spend six months in a school where you have to share crayon boxes and workbooks and there are holes in everything. Get back to me.

That is an educational funding problem, not an obesity problem.

 

[Netzach]

Are there studies relating children who get free/reduced school meals that are obese compared to the children who do not get free/reduced school meals?

Probably not, but the kids whose families sent them with lunch (mostly first generation immgrants) were on average slimmer, according to a fast eyeball survey.

 

[Netzach]

Dude, you are avoiding the point that people don't have to buy anything from the machine!

It's NOT JUST THE MACHINE. It's the slop from the lunch lady! When your family doesn't give you any money because they don't have any money or just don't freaking care, that's your food! Tuck in!

 

[Netzach]

I went through a stage with a copy of Atlas Shrugged and a six pack of Belgian beer was my idea of heaven too. It's ok.

 

[JMohegan]

It's NOT JUST THE MACHINE. It's the slop from the lunch lady! When your family doesn't give you any money because they don't have any money or just don't freaking care, that's your food! Tuck in!

Thank you for saving me the trouble.

Jesus Christ.

 

[subbie_333]

No clue. Why is that relevant? You were saying that no one is holding a gun to their head and making them consume HFCS. I made the point that anyone that eats school lunch is consuming HFCS, and that for many the only other choice is hunger. Why would studies, obesity, or anything else have relevance in the question of nutritional choice?

Since this is a thread about "weight", it seems that the argument is being made that obesity is related to people not being able to afford healthy food. OK, i can accept that. And, that school lunches are not healthy. Fine, i agree. And, that poorer people cannot afford to fix meals for their kids and have to get meals at school. OK, i get that. And, that the poorest people cannot afford to pay the full price for school meals. Of course. But, are free/reduced school meals causing obesity in children, say, compared to children who pay the full value of those meals? That's what i am asking. If there is no difference, then, the problem is not how poor the child/family is, it is a problem of the choices being made as to what to serve at school meals.

 

[Netzach]

If there is no difference, then, the problem is not how poor the child/family is, it is a problem of the choices being made as to what to serve at school meals.

Do you think these things have nothing to do with one another?

Do you think it's just a roll of the dice that the children on the bottom of the economic scale are not being given some frisee greens, fresh strawberries, and white fish filet?

 

[subbie_333]

Thank you for saving me the trouble.

Jesus Christ.

You are the one who brought up soda machines as a problem, and, i was the one who said that it wasn't a problem.

 

[subbie_333]

Do you think these things have nothing to do with one another?

( patiently waits for her to finish with all her additions )

 

[intothewoods]

OK, change my exercise to "cheapest fruit at the same place where you buy the natural peanut butter"

I don't know where you live, but have you been to a grocery store in a really really shitty part of town? I drive by one sometimes, and I'm afraid to go in. And what about kids whose parents don't give a shit? I see them outside at 9 o'clock at night. If you're 4 or 5 and you're hanging around a street corner at night without your parents, I doubt you are getting a well-balanced meal at home.

Not everyone is in this situation, but this country is pretty diverse. Some parents don't care. Some parents are working two jobs and don't have time to think. Some parents don't know what they're cooking is necessarily bad for them. They're just making what they grew up with. It's not like saying one thing to everyone will fix the situation.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't know where you live, but have you been to a grocery store in a really really shitty part of town?

Doesn't even have to be in a shitty part of town.

Have you ever been to a grocery store in the backwoods? By the time the damn "fresh veggies" get there on the truck, they're already wilted. And overpriced because there's no competition for the grocery store in a one-horse town. Nobody wants to buy stuff like that from there because it's not good, and you're just getting screwed price-wise.

Oddly enough, the same problems plague the rural poor as plague the urban poor. Who'da thunk it?

 

[Netzach]

( patiently waits for her to finish with all her additions )

Hehe. I'm done. Just for you.

BTW, often there IS no grocery store in urban poor neighborhoods, just a superamerica and a McD's. I'm not kidding. I mean the kind of places where "neighborhood got 'em" is the explanation for why Kowalski's is outta there.

That said, I'm still singing the praises of the frozen veg. aisle for what to do when you're in BFA and the one grocery store bites ass, I lived on them in college.

 

[subbie_333]

I don't know where you live, but have you been to a grocery store in a really really shitty part of town? I drive by one sometimes, and I'm afraid to go in. And what about kids whose parents don't give a shit? I see them outside at 9 o'clock at night. If you're 4 or 5 and you're hanging around a street corner at night without your parents, I doubt you are getting a well-balanced meal at home.

To me, i view that as a societal problem in which parenting needs to improve and security needs to improve. i would rather we place a higher priority on that, as opposed to fighting corporations to make them tell us how dangerous their foods are.

Not everyone is in this situation, but this country is pretty diverse. Some parents don't care. Some parents are working two jobs and don't have time to think. Some parents don't know what they're cooking is necessarily bad for them. They're just making what they grew up with. It's not like saying one thing to everyone will fix the situation.

As Netzach keeps pointing out, some places/neighborhoods can't "support" some of the things suggested here, like "bike lanes on major commuter roads, and fight to put parks and playgrounds and recreational centers in local communities". Her argument is more that some places are too dangerous to have things to be usable/feasible. Or, as an alternative, it is even too dangerous to exercise on the streets if parks don't exist. i agree. So, let's improve the safety issue *first*. Then, improve parenting skills. We can make corporations improve the quality of the food all we want, but, if families get killed walking back and forth to the grocery store to get those cheaper healthier foods, it doesn't make any difference.

 

[subbie_333]

Hehe. I'm done. Just for you.

BTW, often there IS no grocery store in urban poor neighborhoods, just a superamerica and a McD's. I'm not kidding. I mean the kind of places where "neighborhood got 'em" is the explanation for why Kowalski's is outta there.

Let's not get started on my views of corporate America

But, i think that the security concern is a huge issue for a lot of places that don't do business there any more.

 

[Netzach]

To me, i view that as a societal problem in which parenting needs to improve and security needs to improve. i would rather we place a higher priority on that, as opposed to fighting corporations to make them tell us how dangerous their foods are.




As Netzach keeps pointing out, some places/neighborhoods can't "support" some of the things suggested here, like "bike lanes on major commuter roads, and fight to put parks and playgrounds and recreational centers in local communities". Her argument is more that some places are too dangerous to have things to be usable/feasible. Or, as an alternative, it is even too dangerous to exercise on the streets if parks don't exist. i agree. So, let's improve the safety issue *first*. Then, improve parenting skills. We can make corporations improve the quality of the food all we want, but, if families get killed walking back and forth to the grocery store to get those cheaper healthier foods, it doesn't make any difference.

Your idea is even more dangerous, upsetting, and radical to the status quo than saying "let's outlaw trans fats in restaurants."

I mean you're REALLY going for root cause there. "OMG FATTIES" is much easier.

 

[subbie_333]

Your idea is even more dangerous, upsetting, and radical to the status quo than saying "let's outlaw trans fats in restaurants."

I mean you're REALLY going for root cause there. "OMG FATTIES" is much easier.

Can you say "change"? Can you say "Libertarian"?

oops, my bad, wrong thread

 

[Netzach]

Can you say "change"? Can you say "Libertarian"?

I like the idea in theory, but this whole system of trusting my neighbors with my welfare rather than a legal system we more or less agree on is kind of not so keen. Call it genetic BTDT.

 

[subbie_333]

I like the idea in theory, but this whole system of trusting my neighbors with my welfare rather than a legal system we more or less agree on is kind of not so keen. Call it genetic BTDT.

um, not really what the Libertarians believe. We believe more in the government as designed by the founding fathers, and, not what it has morphed into (i.e. the legal system we have now more or less have agreed upon).

 

[intothewoods]

Doesn't even have to be in a shitty part of town.

Have you ever been to a grocery store in the backwoods? By the time the damn "fresh veggies" get there on the truck, they're already wilted. And overpriced because there's no competition for the grocery store in a one-horse town. Nobody wants to buy stuff like that from there because it's not good, and you're just getting screwed price-wise.

Oddly enough, the same problems plague the rural poor as plague the urban poor. Who'da thunk it?

Ooh, ooh, me!

Hehe. I'm done. Just for you.

BTW, often there IS no grocery store in urban poor neighborhoods, just a superamerica and a McD's. I'm not kidding. I mean the kind of places where "neighborhood got 'em" is the explanation for why Kowalski's is outta there.

That said, I'm still singing the praises of the frozen veg. aisle for what to do when you're in BFA and the one grocery store bites ass, I lived on them in college.

The one I'm thinking of may or may not have a veggie aisle. There is a larger chain down the road, but it just depends on where you're at in the neighborhood and if you have a car. Anyway.

ETA - oh, and this is like the up and coming bad part of town too.

It's been an eye opener for me, and I didn't consider myself all that naive.

To me, i view that as a societal problem in which parenting needs to improve and security needs to improve. i would rather we place a higher priority on that, as opposed to fighting corporations to make them tell us how dangerous their foods are.


As Netzach keeps pointing out, some places/neighborhoods can't "support" some of the things suggested here, like "bike lanes on major commuter roads, and fight to put parks and playgrounds and recreational centers in local communities". Her argument is more that some places are too dangerous to have things to be usable/feasible. Or, as an alternative, it is even too dangerous to exercise on the streets if parks don't exist. i agree. So, let's improve the safety issue *first*. Then, improve parenting skills. We can make corporations improve the quality of the food all we want, but, if families get killed walking back and forth to the grocery store to get those cheaper healthier foods, it doesn't make any difference.

On this - yeah, but there are these huge forgotten areas. They're down the street from the nice parts of down, and yet people get shot just walking out of the house. Yes, let's make it safer. I say it. People say it. But it's been going on here since before I was born, so I'd like to do more than just wait.

 

[subbie_333]

On this - yeah, but there are these huge forgotten areas. They're down the street from the nice parts of down, and yet people get shot just walking out of the house. Yes, let's make it safer. I say it. People say it. But it's been going on here since before I was born, so I'd like to do more than just wait.

Can you say "change"...............................